[Deck] Belcher

[strom]

I went to a little tourney nearby my hometown.
4 Rounds matchrecord 3-1.

The list I ran:

// Lands
1 [B] Taiga
1 [B] Bayou

// Creatures
4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [IA] Tinder Wall
4 [GP] Wild Cantor
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
4 [MM] Land Grant
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [CHK] Desperate Ritual
4 [MR] Seething Song
4 [MI] Dark Ritual
4 [MR] Goblin Charbelcher
3 [JU] Burning Wish
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 4 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 1 [OD] Simplify
SB: 4 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 4 [SC] Xantid Swarm

I am pretty happy with the current list. I have played and tested the deck since its earlier days without the boost of EtW.
I have done a lot of testing with different versions especially with Wraith but I found it to be inferior to Dark Ritual.
If you have any questions feel free to ask.

1. Round vs. TheRock with R-Splash for Pyroclasm

He won the die roll (which is really bad with this deck) but didnt to anyhing first round. I manged to get 10 Gobs into play. I could only attack once, because he dropped one of his sweepers (he had Deed, Pyroclasm and EE mainbord).

Second Game (no sideboarding by me) I killed him with an ETW for 12 gobs 1st round.

Third Game I kept a good hand with two win-conditions. Unfortunately my next two cards off of the top where Wish and another belcher. He made double Duress and eventually won.

2. Round vs. B/U-Control (I saw Hippie,Duress,Mana Leak,Hmyn to Tourach..)

He won the die roll and started with a first round hippie. Not bad.
I managed to drop a belcher 1st round along with Land Grant and Chrome Mox.My hand was emtpy and all I needed was another mana source.GG

Second Game (I sided swarms and Pyros) he got the nuts with first turn Duress and Hymn. I coudnt recover and he was able to play a specter. There was no way to win this game.

Third Game I was allowed to start and played a first turn belcher. He played a handdisruption spell and all I could do on my 2nd turn was playing a Xantid Swarm (in play: Bayou and belcher), no cards left in hand. He played a Specter. I drew Tinder Wall off the top attacked with Swarm and played the wall second mainphase leaving me with enough mana to kil him next turn and so I did (he told me, he had a Mana Leak in hand, so Xantid Swarm was pretty good here).

3. Round vs. Burn

I won the die roll (yeah) and kept a nice hand with a huge ETW. Too fast for him..

Second Game he started with Lava Spike. My first turn was pretty broken and I managed to put 16 Gobs into play. He played some burn next turn, so I attacked with my army. Third turn he manegd to play Flamebreak (leaving him at 1 life). I wasn't able to recover fast enough and so got killed by some Burn.

Third game I started and killed him with Belcher easily.

4. Round vs. Vial Goblins

Not much to tell. Two times I killed him via EtW first game and via belcher second game. He put down a pillar second game but I only took 6 damage and eventually belched him to death.

[BreathWeapon]

Basic SBing is to have up to 8 Blasts, 4 Blasts in the MD free up 4 slots in the SB, and from there 4 Shattering Spree to deal with Chalice of the Void on the draw. After that, all that I think the SB "needs" is Empty the Warrens, Diminishing Returns and Reverent Silence/Simplify. People who MD Blasts tend to fill in those slots with a lot of other Wish targets, but most of them tend to be superflous in actual game play.

I'm back to just the "CRET list" - Dark Ritual for Serum Powder and - Bayou for the missing Tinder Wall and it's just too consistent to give up on. I'll post the Belcher/b list I came up with in another thread, people are going to either love it or hate it after they see it.

[ClearSkies]

I went to a little tournament in my town too. I played against quite a few control decks. I brought this deck to the tournament because no one will expect it. However, I ran to a few problems.

As for the decklist, the mainboard is the same as the one in SCG article.

4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Burning Wish
3 Empty the Warrens
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant
2 Taiga
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Street Wraith
4 Rites of Flame
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Seething Song
4 Tinder Wall
3 Pyroblast


My Sideboard isn't the same though.

1x Simplify
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Dimished Returns
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Duress
1x Cave-In
1x Infernal Tutor

4x Shattering Spree
3x Red Elemental Blast
1x Pyroblast

I often found that the black version increases my chances to have a fail activation because Bayou doesn't double the damage. The Wraith version seemed to fetch me the acceleration without having to need Dark Ritual as more accleration.


Record 3-2

Details of Rounds in spoiler

Round 1 -> Complete goldfish

Round 2 -> U/G Madness, no FoW
Complete goldfish

Round 3 -> W/U Control
G1: Lost to game error. (Forgot to fix my SB)
G2: Won in 3rd turn with Belcher, no problems, He didn't SB

G3: This is the part I have problems with. He managed to get Chill in turn 2 play, and I couldn't really get out of it. My blasts were just sitting in my hand, and having only enough mana to blast every other turn wasn't fast enough before I died to 1/1 from decree.

Round 4 -> Deadguy Ale type deck
G1: 2nd Turn win

G2: His massive discard and later on chalice of the void for zero screwed me over really badly. I just couldn't get back into the game.

G3: It was the same as Game 2. However, this time, I won the game because I threw down my LEDs and artifact acceleration in play, and wished for diminishing returns for 24 goblins.

I really think that Diminishing Returns is a good wish target for this deck. Might need more testing though. =/

Round 5 -> Monoblue Control
G1: Winning with 6 goblins that was put down on turn one...

G2: This was one of those wierd games. This was my hand:

Red Spirit Guide, Pyroblast, 3x Rite of Flames, Belcher, and 2x Land grant.
(I drew a Red Spirit Guide during my first turn since I played first)

He went first, and played island. I tried going off, thinking I had backup, only to find that he brainstormed into his 2nd FoW. -_-

Later on, he managed to play Chill when I had no blast in my hand. I couldn't get around it until very later with wishing for Simiplify.

I managed to EtW with 4 storm and then EtW with 5 storm. Before I could attack, he played Leyline of Singularity, and another Chill.

G3: I managed to get Belcher out for a very long time, but no mana to activated it immediately. After I got Belcher out, he played Chill. I tried to activate it 5 times. 4 times, I was Trickbinded, and 5th time was a failed activation, and I died to a Morphling.

The main point was that this deck seem to have alot of trouble fightning against Chill and Leyline of the Void.

Are there better ways for Belcher to fight against problematic enchantments? Would sideboarding Krosan Grip be a good idea or a bad idea?

Even with 11 "win" conditions, I feel that there isn't enough ways to win. Somehow, I want to stick like 1 copy of Tendrils in SB or Mainboard and/or put Infernal Tutors.

[BreathWeapon]

Assuming 8 Blasts, Simian Spirit Guide has a chance to counter the Chill on the opponent's turn, but I don't see how the opponent can cast Chill before you win unless your are Time Walking him into his turn with Tinder Wall (and even then you can sacrifice Tinder Wall for RR to counter the Chill).

I've seen Leyline of Singularity and Chill used in AfFOWnity, where both of the cards are sensible because Leyline of Singularity cheats AfFOWnity's blue count and Chill can be accelerated, and there I ended up trying 4 Referent Silence in the board for AfFOWnity and Enchantress.

Leyline of Singularity is garbage, if your opponent plays Leyling of Singularity then you can either go for Diminishing Returns or just use one of the 8 Blasts to remove it. You would have lost to any removal spell in that position, so it really wasn't Leyline of Singularity that you lost to.

If you feel threat light, it's because the deck mulligans with out a win condition every 5 hands. I strongly recommend Serum Powder because of this.

[TestMonkey]

Am I correct in assuming that this decks has been pretty much optimized? It's been two weeks since the last post in this thread although many other threads seem to have marked this deck as a weapon of the apocalypse. The roiginal seems to still be the strongest.

MB
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Tinder Wall
4 Wild Cantor
4 Burning Wish
4 Dark Ritual
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Empty the Warrens
4 Land Grant
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox
4 Goblin Charbelcher
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Bayou
1 Taiga

SB
1 Cave-In
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Shattering Spree
1 Simplify
1 ???
1 ???

The only thing in question seems to be the last two slots in the sideboard. These last two slots seem to be metagame slots. Arguments have being made for:

Cabal Therapy
Duress
Goblin War Strike
Grapeshot
Hull Breach
Regrowth
Tendrils of Agony

[thebadmagicplayer]

hi, I was just wondering what the cret in cret belcher stands for?

[NANTUKO_SHADY]

hi, I was just wondering what the cret in cret belcher stands for?

CRET is the name of the team which introduced this deck list I believe. A few people from Team CRET ran it at some tourney and all of them did really well with it I think.

SB
1 Cave-In
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Infernal Tutor
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Shattering Spree
1 Simplify
1 ???
1 ???

In regards to your SB, why run both Pyroclasm AND Cave-In? To start, you will rarely find yourself Wishing for either Pyroclasm or Cave-In, and I see almost no occassions will you will B-Wish for both of them in the same game. I think Cave-In is truely better because you can RFG a red card rather than have to pay two mana that you might be short on. I suggest you take out the Pyroclasm and replace it with a 5th blast, and then run Regrowth and Tendrils of Agony as your last two wish spots. I questioned Tendrils at first, but after an explanation, it really makes sense to be in there just in case.

[Bovinious]

I think CRET stands for Charles' Rear Entry, part Two or something like that, but yeah its based on Team CRET who first did well with the deck.

My sideboard is the following, I made more room in it by MDing 4 Pyroblast over Cantors:

1 Empty the Warrens
1 Infernal Tutor
1 Simplify
1 Duress
1 Pyroclasm
4 Shattering Spree
1 Cave-In
1 Diminishing Returns
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Goblin War Strike
1 Hull Breach

I'm not really seeing the point of Regrowth or Tendrils in the board, especially since I've cut black from the deck but maybe if I was running black I'd run a Tendrils.

[NANTUKO_SHADY]

I'm not really seeing the point of Regrowth or Tendrils in the board, especially since I've cut black from the deck but maybe if I was running black I'd run a Tendrils.

I don't run black either. Bayou is pretty damn awful. If I were to even run two lands, it would be two Taigas. Anyways, Tendrils is still O.K. in the board even with no maindeck Bayou or Dark Rit. Generally speaking, you are never going to cast Tendrils without the use of LED anyways, so getting BB shouldn't be too hard tough of a feat. I also didn't like Tendrils at first, but Ewokslayer explained to me it is a Wish target for after they deal with an initial ETW onslaught. If you bash them for a bunch then they wipe the board, then Tendrils can serve as a nice mid-game finisher. If they can survive one wave of Goblins, chances are they will be able to withstand another one some turns later.

[Bovinious]

I agree on Bayou/black, if I ran another land I'd run a 2nd Taiga, Bayou for the loss. I like the option of Diminishing Returns SB when you have an LED, usually itll let you get another Belcher/ETW but I can see where wishing for a lethal Tendrils would be better than risking it on 7 random cards, esp. if theres a Plague on the table and ETW would be no good. I'll try one in place of either Duress, Hull Breach, or a REB.

[thebadmagicplayer]

i'm thinking of picking this deck up for competitive play. can one of you explain why some of the wish targets like duress are in the sb. also when do you side in shattering spree, what do you take out for them, and what do you ageinst decks like stax, aluren, the mirror, land still, hanni fish, and fairy stompy?

the list I plan to run is a one land varient of G/R cret belcher. any info on your side board choices will be helpfull since i don't know what about a third of it is doing there

[NANTUKO_SHADY]

i'm thinking of picking this deck up for competitive play. can one of you explain why some of the wish targets like duress are in the sb. also when do you side in shattering spree, what do you take out for them, and what do you ageinst decks like stax, aluren, the mirror, land still, hanni fish, and fairy stompy?

the list I plan to run is a one land varient of G/R cret belcher. any info on your side board choices will be helpfull since i don't know what about a third of it is doing there

Shattering Spree is there to take out decks that run Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere, maybe Null Rod?? etc. Pretty much any pesky artifact that gets in the way of you comboing out are the targets for Shattering Spree. I board out 1x Street Wraith, 1x Wild Cantor, and 1x Tinderwall usually for the 3x Shattering Spree. You want to leave one in teh board so you can Burning Wish for one if you need it. In the mirror, my suggestion would be to win the die roll and try to go with the Belcher kill if you have the option. ETW can sometimes be bad in the mirror, as your opponent just either Belcher you out, or Burning Wishes for Cave-in and then wipes the board and combo's out next turn.

I'll now try to explain some SB choices.

*Empty the Warrens= DUH. It makes Burning Wish a win condition
*Shattering Spree= Read^
*Infernal Tutor= A nice wish target when you have excessive mana and you can abuse Hellbent with LED.
*Simplify= Gets rid of Engineered Plague and random other stupid annoying enchantments that may piss you off.
*Cave-In= Deals with Meddling Mage and opposing Goblin Tokens
*4x Pyroblast/1x REB= Relevant cards against your toughest matchups
*Tendrils of Agony= A nice mid-game Wish target after your opponent survives an initial onslaught of Goblins.
*Regrowth= Helps recover and setup for a second Combo attempt


That is my board, but some people like Goblin War Strike which speeds up the kill by a turn. Some also use Storm Entity, which I am not that fond of. It really varies. Hope I could be of help.

[Bovinious]

any info on your side board choices will be helpfull since i don't know what about a third of it is doing there

Here are explanations of my current SB (4 Pyroblast MD):

1 Empty the Warrens - Win Con, needs to be here
1 Infernal Tutor - ups storm count if you have extra mana or helps you turn a Burning Wish into a Belcher if you have a LOT of extra mana (2 LEDs)
1 Simplify - kills a random E. Plague/Confinement/watever
1 Tendrils of Agony - Mid game kill spell if your horde of goblins is stopped
1 Pyroclasm - sweeper for gobs/ETW if you have spare mana
4 Shattering Spree - simply amazing, kills chalice, 3sphere, sphere of resistance, needle, cant be countered by chalice or otherwise if replicated
1 Cave-In - sweeper for gobs/ETW if you dont have spare mana
1 Diminishing Returns - helps build towards a 20+ goblin ETW or get to a Belcher if you are in the face of hate
2 Red Elemental Blast - vs. counters (in addition to 4 Pyroblast MD)
1 Goblin War Strike - helps ETW kill a turn faster if you have an extra wish and mana, can beat the hate by a turn sometimes
1 Hull Breach - if you have to kill an enchantment and they have more than 1 (AKA Simplify wont work), or if there is an artifact AND enchantment in your way.

I usually SB out 3 Pyroblasts for 3 Shattering Spree (leaving one in the board to wish for) if I'm playing against non-blue and artifacts, I would probably side out 4 Seething Song 1 Tinder Wall for 3 Shattering Spree 2 REB if I was against blue and artifacts, the rest is the wishboard.

[D-Bird]

First of all, sorry for my bad english.

I´m building an CRET belcher deck so i am looking through many forums for informations. I only goldfished with my deck so i have no experience with any matchups. Because of this point i´m very unsure with the sidebord. My actually question ist, why using REBs/Pyroblasts over Duress (when B is played)? I read somthing about using simian spirit guide to counter but i don´t think that i can trust to have both cards in hand when needed. Also i think it´s bad to need one mana more in the comboturn. Duress can be played a turn before so the mana dosen´t care. Ok, this is a lost of a turn, but i can still cast it in the comboturn to have the same effekt then REB. The only thing that comes in my mind is the cost auf B. Is it the reason to play REB over Duress? Is the B the problem?

Sorry that i ask a so stupid questen. If i would test the deck in an tournament so i would know the anser, but i would like to be prepared befor the tournament, not after

Eeeeks... is this bad english... sorry again.

D-Bird

[Slay]

Duress costs a black, and doesn't answer Meddling Mage. Those are enough to make it suck. In a different deck/meta, it could be really really good.
-Slay

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Duress costs a black, and doesn't answer Meddling Mage. Those are enough to make it suck. In a different deck/meta, it could be really really good.
-Slay

On the other hand, it takes Sandstorm, Pithing Needle, and Engineered Explosives, which Pyroclasm can't. Tough choice, really, and it ultimately comes down to which combo is most in need of protection. Perhaps Belcher, as you say, since it's harder to answer (especially without blue, or access to two free counters).

[Elfrago]

What about a single Trash for Treasure in the SB? It could be useful to recur a countered belcher and you can play it with the LED mana.

[NANTUKO_SHADY]

What about a single Trash for Treasure in the SB? It could be useful to recur a countered belcher and you can play it with the LED mana.

Um... are you sure you can do that? It's an ADDITIONAL cost to sac an artifact. So you can't cast Trash For Treasure and in response sac LED to both add 3 mana AND cover the saccing cost for TFT. That's like sayiing "well my opponent casted Innocent Blood while I have Pile Driver and Fanatic out and I'll choose to sac Fanatic to Innocent Blood but in response I'll ping you for 1." You would still have to sac the Pile Driver then in that situation. If you have say a Chrome Mox or some other artifact out, then it would work. You would just sac the Chrome Mox as part of the cost, then while TFT is on the stack, THEN sac LED to get your 3 mana.

[Elfrago]

Um... are you sure you can do that? It's an ADDITIONAL cost to sac an artifact. So you can't cast Trash For Treasure and in response sac LED to both add 3 mana AND cover the saccing cost for TFT. That's like sayiing "well my opponent casted Innocent Blood while I have Pile Driver and Fanatic out and I'll choose to sac Fanatic to Innocent Blood but in response I'll ping you for 1." You would still have to sac the Pile Driver then in that situation. If you have say a Chrome Mox or some artifact out, then it would work. You would just sac the Chrome Mox as part of the cost, then while TFT is on the stack, THEN sac LED to get your 3 mana.

Of course you LED and another artefact.
Still it could be useful.

[Bryant Cook]

I'm surprised people aren't running Diminishing Returns, Bonivious seems to be the only one. You should especially be playing it if you're playing Wild Cantor, no reason not to. You have means of hardcasting it (meaning: not with Lion's Eye Diamond), and easy ways to cast it (meaning: with Lion's Eye Diamond). Don't be afraid to take from other combo, it's what I do with TES. I saw Belcher running Goblin War Strike and stole that and started testing it, I saw SI running draw 4's so I tested one as a wish target. Try some new things out, you may even like some of them.