How does this deck match-up against belcher? I have a hard time seeing this one going off very much on turn 1. IGG will slow them down considerably if you are on the play. On the draw, it seems you would be at a bad disadvantage. Iggy pop or SI seem to be better choices in that match-up.
Doesn't play as smooth as it looks. So many what-ifs and opportunities to make bad choices.
Mike
Hey Mike, welcome to the source. This deck has a fairly good Belcher match-up actually. You don't care about Swarms of 1/1 Goblins. I've won plenty of games by them blowing thier hand turn 1 for 10 1/1 Goblins, to have me on my turn make 14 1/1 Goblins. TES has the ability to create a much higher storm count than Belcher. Honestly, if you can't figure out how to go off on turn one you're probably not playing it correctly. You also have 2 maindeck and 2 sideboard Orim's Chants so you can make them mana burn before casting their win condition. Also, after sideboard you gain 2x Orim's Chant and 3x Duress to help you. Another tech with the deck is to Burning Wish for a removal spell such as Cave-in or Earthquake.Originally Posted by capewestgames
Iggypop? Iggy is terribly slow, TES is much faster than Iggypop I don't understand your logic here. As for SI, I've done alot of testing with and against it since I am good friends with the decks advocator it is not better vs. Belcher.
If the deck isn't playing smoothly and you don't know what to do you just have to goldfish it until you understand how to play it properly.
Last edited by Bryant Cook; 07-18-2007 at 10:18 PM.
One of the more interesting approaches to the TES vs Belcher match up is to watch whether or not the opponent keeps his hand or mulligans and then consider resolving a Diminishing Returns (on the play) for the card advantage it generates off of the land drop, Chrome Mox and/or Lotus Petal and give the opponent a new hand. There's a good chance that the opponent wont be able to combo out, because he drew a bad hand, and you should be in good shape with whatever you draw, because you get the card advantage, the draw and either force the opponent to commit his resources first or go off. You can also just Burning Wish for Duress and cast it on the same turn, which Belcher can't deal with all that well.
Belcher doesn't go off with Goblin Charbelcher on the same turn all of the time, so it's really likely you can just Burning Wish for Shattering Spree to remove it or Burning Wish for Duress if they hold on to it and cherry pick the win.
Unless your opponent has discard, Force of Will or Orim's Chant the combo mirror is going to be in TES's favor. I'd be way more worried about your Ichorid match up than Belcher, because between Cabal Therapy, Chalice of the Void or Force of Will and its speed/inevitability that deck can just slaughter combo. You can obviously SB Leyline, but you really don't want to have to give up 4 slots in your SB just for that.
Hello,
I have a question too. I'm a belcher and IGGy Player. But my metagame is horribly aggro-control. I'd like to play IGGy this time but, i wonder if it will be good. In my research to perfect the deck, i derivate to TES and its ideas of red colorisation. I stay in a IGGy deck base but, i think to use in sideboard burning wish, volcanic island and empty the warren (maybe REB).
I'd like to stay on IGGy pop because this deck is a better ToA user.
My question (my fear) is about the risk of manadeath. Is it valid to stay with biland or definitively may i go to TES ?
I will play in tournament saturday, so i'd like help please.
Thanks.
Here is my list, i'll explain some of the card choices...
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME: The EPIC Storm
// AUTHOR: APriestOfGix
// Lands
1 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise
4 [CH] City of Brass
4 [TSB] Gemstone Mine
1 [SOK] Tomb of Urami
// Creatures
4 [SC] Xantid Swarm
3 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
// Spells
1 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
2 [FD] Plunge into Darkness
1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
3 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
4 [JU] Burning Wish
2 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
3 [IA] Brainstorm
2 [IA] Dark Ritual
1 [TE] Dark Ritual
1 [MI] Dark Ritual
2 [PS] Orim's Chant
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 2 [PS] Orim's Chant
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
SB: 1 [PS] Hull Breach
SB: 1 [SC] Goblin War Strike
Orim's Chant - Chants are amazing, and you must run 4. I'm exactly sure what number main side, but 4 main is too much, and none main is to little. They are good against every deck, for they draw you a turn, or a counter spell, kinda like a white duress, but having the off chance of "discarding" their entire hand for a turn...
Dark Confidant - Again he is amazing. Many have pulled him from their lists, but i love Bob. He comes in in every match that dosn't have FoW, and is basically a tendrils a turn if left unchecked, also he trades with Piledrivers, and chumps other goblins, and does a good job of annoying aggro from hitting me. The life loss can SOMETIME be an issue, but the only time it was when i had 2 out, plunged to 10, and both ripped IGG, and Returns, next turn by Tendrils, and (if i had lived) Tendrils... (that dosn't happen much BTW :P). He also is great against discard, as you just out draw they discard, forcing them to use a creature kill, and not hit your hand for a turn. (assuming early game and limited mana).
This list has been doing amazing, it has been putting up great results, and i am really happy with it. OH, BTW if anyone knows where i can get the chants for less than $20 let me know, it's the only reason im in the source tourny.... ;P
The point of running Confidant was to capitalize on their lack of card advantage via aggressive Forcing.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Thats like stating you run brainstorm because it draws cards, when you only mention that you can hide good combo pieces, it goes w/o saying.
Think of it like this... Against Threshold, they're more likely to pitch a threat to Force (which that threat is going to be another Counter or Cantrip). You use Confidant to make up for the lack of threats at your disposal, because your threats only work if you have other threats for that same turn. Dark Confidant helps you dig for those obviously.
The original point in having them was an answer to both Control and Discard. This is obviously a no-brainer, but that comment you made bugged me.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
well we are both advocating the same thing, confidant is good, i run 4 in the board.
They are even good against aggro...
I'm just having a hard time understanding why would you board in Dark Confidant against aggro? I would rather have mana acceleration or win conditions over dark confidants against aggro. Thats the last thing you would need, more damage to help the aggro player out.
~Shriek~
You board out Xantid for Confidant, which is much better against nonblue disruption.
Team Rehab- We Keep Coming Back For More
Team Blitzkrieg- Swagga.
Storm Boards
I just don't believe that boarding Xantid for Confidant is the correct sideboarding decision against aggro decks. Especially, if they are not playing blue disruption. This also depends on how you have your sideboard structured.
~Shriek~
Whit3 Ghost is right, you pull swarm for Confidant.
Each turn a confidant goes unanswered is +1 card, and +1 storm (he swings for a tendrils copy...)...
This make him amazing, he is almost an auto switch against any deck not running Counterspells, as he swings, and kills off Piledrivers.
Lets see, what do i want to get hit with, a Piledriver? or the (around) 3 damage a confidant will deal me.
Goblins is for sure going to be attacking with more than a piledriver and another creature...
He is just amazing, i have won games in top deck mode, cause i draw 3 cards a turn, and in 2 turns i'm ready to combo out again.
I would not pull confidants for anyreason, short of them making a card thats B for a creature, 2/2 that draws an extra card, and you don't lose life...
Edit: I think i just set a record, ramped up to 45 storm...
3 LED, 4 Wish, 4 Tutor, all involving IGG, and a D Returns... after that insain chain, i had 44 storm, then a tendrils FTW.
This is what happens when you play a "Player" on MWS who is playing an elf deck that goes, Turn 1 Taunting, Turn 2 some trivial elf, and nothing else, all game till turn 13, when you ask if you can win, he says, "How you have 1 land?", and you go "Watch This..."
:D
Don't play Dark Confidant, it's useless in a deck that wants to win fast and aggressively.
I'm pretty sure that that's exactly what Dark Confidant is used for.
I can see both sides to the Dark Confidant argument, honestly. There were times where I didn't like him (Like the one time where I took 8 damage from one), however, I'm not quite ready to take him out yet, as the extra cards he draws me have been very invaluable VS the Threshold matchups, as well as the random extra blocker.
Still kickin' it combo school.
How does Dark Confidant help you win faster? He takes time to gain card advantage. That by no means helps you win faster. If you cast him turn one you are burning acceleration, which if he lives, you break even on turn two on card advantage. Turn three you finally gain card advantage, but by turn 3 you should already be winning. If you cast Dark Confidant on turn 2, you still have to wait to turn 3 to see anything and by then there must be something more useful than 1 extra random pluck off of the top of your deck.
If you use acceleration on turn 1 to play Confidant you actually don't break even on CA until turn 3. Turn 1 you invest accel + confidant (-2 CA). Turn 2 you get 1 extra card (-1 CA). Turn 3 you get 1 extra card (even CA).
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Either way, why wait until turn 3 to start gaining card advantage? We're supposed to have won by then. Dark Confidant is terrible in TES I don't know why I ever ran him.
The point is Dark Confidant is the opposite gameplan of the deck and we should be heading forward instead of backwards.
Without Dark Confidant, I shudder to think how much worse the matchup against dedicated Discard decks would be assuming they get a turn to force you to discard...
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