Why not? It is a strand of it, I never said it was standard, just a new list. People are moving towards wasteland through.Originally Posted by wastedlife
And there are other lists that run Snare main or board, as well as waste, this isn't some new innovation.
When using numbers for testing or data it's dumb to base your numbers off of a list that very few people play. You should base your results, data, and numbers off of the most common and standard lists.
Clearly. But very few people is an understatement. People have been running snares side or main for a while, and in the aftermath of a large tourney, the lists are bound to be copied and played.
Are Americans using the 3 Counterbalance/Sensei's Divining Top in their lists? Counterbalance seems more disconcerting than Stifle or Spellsnare by far. It's arguably the best reason for SBing Blasts at this point.
That is also true, it is becoming more and more popular.
You my friend are a noob...
Balance w/ top counters Blast... 100% of the time.
actaully it's a reason NOT to run blast.
Assuming they can't find a 1cc spell in top 3, they put a top there, and counter ALL your 1cc spells, Brainstorm, Chant, Drak Ritual, Rite of Flame.
I wana see you combo through daze/Force of Will/Stifle, using no 1cc spells...
Why must you immaturely respond like this? Surely you must not act like this in real life, why on the source?
Counter/top is a great reason to run Blast. You can COUNTER counterbalance. Destroy it if they don't have counter/top or you can wait until you force them to put top on top then in responce blow up counter balance with a blast. It's a great reason to run the card.
Last edited by Bryant Cook; 08-31-2007 at 05:28 PM. Reason: Typo's ftl
You my friend have never meet me. I say everything i say in jest, making fun of the stupid people in the world.
I'm sorry if my anger at the world, and mockery of it, looked seriously.
I still do not like blasts against Counterbalance.
The just force it, and get the balance through, and thats almost GG.
I haven't played against landstill much but from my experience its a pretty easy matchup. They have no clock whatsover and can't lock you either so you can pretty much combo whenever. An early warrens also kills them. As for thresh it depends on the build. People in my area still run white thresh which is a good matchup. Red thresh is much closer, probably a bit in their favor and u/g thresh isn't all that great either. Either way red thresh is the most problematic for us as it beats goblins and can drive them out of the metagame. For me the more goblin decks I see the happier I am.
Survival decks are also very easy matchups. They haven't really got any chance game one and only bring in some discard and sweepres in the following games. They also usually mull until they find disruption which means they will have a weak hand with little pressure.
About counterbalance I have to say this enchantment sucks for us. Blast rarely kills it since they have so much library manipulation and run so many 1cc spells anyway. In my testing the u/g thresh lists are the hardest to beat. They just have so much disruption compared to the old g/u/w lists. Goyf also provides a faster clock. This matchup has been a nightmare for me. They run the same disruption as the g/u/w lists but also have stifles and wastelands main as well as counterbalances in the side. I am back to running 4 xantids atm since they cant handle them.
The don't lock you...?
So drawing nine cards a turn, with counterbalance, EE AND Force+daze+stifle, isn't a lock?
what it?
and i would call a 10 turn clock still a clock, however slow, with what they hve to protect it, i can be a problem...
4 xantid is too much, i'm running 2 over the infernal contracts in my list a few pages back...
I'll post my newest tech in a few days...
You realize this is a waste of a post, I wasn't going to bother replying at first but I want to say a few things. First off i wasn't criticizing you I was giving my opinion on a few things you said.
Secondly don't exaggerate. Landstill decks don't draw 9 cards a turn or play counterbalance. Many lists don't even run stifle or daze.
Next, 4 xantids isn't necessarily too much. You could run 4 xantids and 2 chants if your metagame is full of decks like landstill and g/u thresh.
You arguement against blast is also silly. What would you run over it? You are giving a scenario where balance will resolve regardless of what you have. Also if they force to protect the balance yuo will have a chance to combo off next turn as balance without top isnt too dangerous. We hold back things like lotus petal anyway until we combo so we can always test whats on top of their deck by dropping a petal or something like that.
oh, of course i'm still running blast, but not for counterbalance, i'm running something else (quote janky but effective) as a one of...
4 xantid is too much, just run 4 chants.
Usually I play TES or a counterTop solution.
So I'm curious to know what super secret tech dragon_demon1 plays against counterbalance over reb/pyro.
Then I don't think that Landstill is the worst matchup. It've a slow clock and we can arrange our hand until we've a god hand. We can play cards like infernal contract and our opponent wastes counters or gives cards advantage. Double tendrils in this matchup is a MVP.
I think that the worst matchup is angel stax or similar decks (trini first turn, chalice,...).
Then there are decks with disruption/counter that can put pressure with a fast clock like new tarmo_dependent_threshold (fow, stifle, fast clock) or faerie stompy (a nightmare matchup: chalice, fow, fast clock...).
This choice depends from metagame.
Very true.
actually the WORST match-up for the deck is Men in Stax. A list myself and a friend invented.
Main Deck:
Leyline
Chalice
Trinisphere
It's almost unwinnable unless you go first and can combo out first turn.
I'm 1-9 in matches against it...
But nobody ever plays stax cause the ONLY deck it's weak aganst happens to be like some 60% of the field (or it feels like that) Thresh.
So i'm ignoring Stax.
uhh I haven't ever played stax in legacy as i considered it a horrible choice because its weak against goblins. Also I would think that thresh is at least close to 50/50 if not in staxs favor. I mean chalice at 1 is a bomb against thresh as is trinisphere or even a leyline. I really don't know about that but i can gaurantee you stax decks will have more trouble against goblins than thresh. If you have a list that has a positive goblins matchup I would love for you to post it since stax-esque lock decks are almost as fun as combo decks imo.
Yes you are correct Goblins is what kept me from building the deck. Damnation didn't even help the gobs match THAT much.
It loses to Gobs and Thresh gives it a hard time, but this is TES not Stx look in Anti-American's Black Stax thread (search for the word stax) and my older list is there, i might share our new tech, but maybe not with Gobs on the way out...
The point is TES has a bad match up against Landstill, Thresh is not THAT bad of a match-up since you are faster. One of the biggest things in beating Thresh is reading your opponit.
If you through a Chant turn 2 and they Brainstorm -> Force/daze it, it is HUGE to be able to read them. How did they play that Force? You basically want to read if they have another card to stop you. Did they Force because they HAD to, since they have nothing else in their hand, and they are trying to bluff. Or did they really force because they have another answer in hand.
If you can get good at reading how people put cards back with brainstorm then you can figure this stuff out.
you would be suprised at how many people you play against (or i play against) that don't worry about what they do with a brainstorm.
I have seen people play the brainstorm... put two cards from their original cards on the top of their library and play a land from the 2 cards they just placed in their hand.
What i'm trying to say is - reading how your opponent played his brainstorm is not as difficult as you might want to make it sound. General mannerisms can give things away like nervous looks etc when brainstorming after you have played a chant... but a lot of players dont think you are paying enough attention to minor details like that.
and if they are doing it... unless they are your friends and you want to give away such a huge advantage, i am more than happy to use that against them.
I agree, but thats on lots of people that aren't Pro's. Try and read Finkle's brainstorms. I agree it's not THAT hard to read "Joe's", but it's harder on people that pay attention to how they play.
What is everyone playing in the REB/Cabal Ritual slots lately?
I've stuck around with Cabal Rits in testing. The fact people got smart and started countering Rituals, it may be a great spell to use on people when you read their state under "exhausted."
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
I'm still running Cabal Rituals, although i may go to 2 Xantid Swarms, or 2 REB.
Still not sure, but of course Cabal is better for the gold fish...
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
