Yea isn't Control Magic just better than both Threads and Shackles? 4 mana is sort of high, I guess. It's not really that bad though, considering anything you would want to steal is probably going to be cast turn 2-3 then you are able to steal it turn 4.
But what is better to have with CounterTop engine? CC3 or CC4? Is it meta dependent or is one just better than other?Originally Posted by from Cairo
The decks that support Counterbalance are oftentimes prepared for cards with cc3 (Trinket Mage/Shackles/Threads). So I guess cc4 is better.
I play Shackles myself tho. Cus the cc3 on top with a CB online is very rare.
Here is the list that i am testing at the moment btw:
//Lands 17
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island
//Creatures 12
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Quirion Dryad
//Draw&Cardquality 12
4 Portent
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
//Counter 8
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
//Burn 'n' stuff 11
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire/Ice
3 Predict
//Sideboard
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Pithing Needle
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Vedalken Shackles
What do you guys think about it?
Last edited by FredMaster; 10-07-2007 at 05:10 AM.
Random thoughts:
Cut one land and 4 F/I for CB/Top Engine main to protect your Dryads.
Cut one land for 4th predict.
Cut Dryad, splash black and play Confidant in that slot (and again, with Bob CB/Top main would be cool)
Cut F/ice für Stifle (our meta has got some deeds that could ruin your day)
Cut Dryad for 2 Fledling Dragons/Drakes and 2 Tops/Shackles.
Ok one thing:
I don't like to see the Counter&Tops main because it slow you down like ****
It so Preboard too manaintensive imo. And I really want to keep being aggro.
And I think there are just some Decks (Landstill) against whom I don't drawing a Vedalken Shackle.
But Stifle is kind of a nice input. But i'd prefer to see it in Sb.
There are just too much random aggro decks in our meta, where i could just eat those Stifles as i can't use them.
But the question is:
What can I cut in Sb for those 3-4 Stifles?
I think the only positive thing about the FDragon is that it has flying.
Sometimes that can be really annoying, when there is just some random Boltproved Flyer I can not handle.
@ Splash Idea:
This is the NQGr-Thread if I remember right.
Therefore you should make up a list and post it somewhere in the New and Development Forum.
I think there is even such a thread in the "Established" area.
Your point.
Actually I never saw a Landstill in our meta.
Against these decks F/I is useless, too. What do you do against Hierarchs, Ascetics and CotH Tokens with F/I? Tap them? Mighty.
The only positive thing about the Goyf is that he's big. Finisher have usually some kind of evasion, haven't they?
Steal 'em with Shackles...Sometimes that can be really annoying, when there is just some random Boltproved Flyer I can not handle.
I don't care.
Well, you posted your deck here and wanted to have comments. Here they are, and if I think it's better to play an off-color Critter in the slot of one you use, I'll tell you so.
I say limit the amount of Burn and run more quality cantrips to find creatures to answer other big creatures.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
This creature-stealing will most likely be in your side.
What creatures will you want to steal ? Goyf, Dryad, Werebears, what else ?
I'd actually suggest Mind Harness :
- if you can steal either of the above for 3-4 turns, you should be able to win.
- it's cheap enough to hinder goblins' fast starts efficiently (actually, in this respect, it belongs more in UG Thresh than UGr), improving dramatically chances of success.
- its cost fits Threshold's general mana deployment better than the other options.
Where it's weak is obviously against black, white and blue creatures but Threshold should have the upper hamd against most of the decks using these, with the exception of Serendib Efreet maybe.
This is my current list:
Land (18):
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
Creatures (11):
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Burning-Tree Shaman
Spells (28):
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
2 Predict
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Counterspell
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire/Ice
Artifacts (3):
3 Pithing Needle
The most important card choices:
Tarmogoyf:
What more do I have to say about this one.
Burning-Tree Shaman:
I've always liked this one, it's a pretty hard beater for cc3 and because in the European meta a lot of decks make use of activated abilities it can be a bomb. For instance, 43 lands. But also decks which make use of Jitte it's a killer. And it makes fetching pretty painfull.
Pithing Needle:
Since a few weeks I play this card mainboard instead of stifle and I can't say more then, it does his job very good.
A card I have tested was quirion dryad, but I played to few cards to make him in a few turns a dangerous creature. So I cut this one for 2 Predict and a fourth Daze. Predict seemed pretty good because I only ran eight cantrips before and now it's up to ten this gives me the advantage to quickly find the right answers. This also because I already had to cut 3 blue cards for the Pneedles. I'm pretty satisfied about this list, it has a good match up versus most of the DTW, DTB and ATW decks. Only fish has proven to be a tough match-up. And post-board makes it even worse. In my opinion the deck has one weakness, it can't deal with big creatures mainboard, the only option is countering. Also flying creatures can be a problem but then again the small one's can be bolted or fired. So big flying creatures are a must counter.
A rough version of my sideboard is listed below:
4 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Shattering Spree
3 Engineered Explosives
I'm not sure about the pyroclasms, is 4 too much. Because Goblins is probably less played since it is no longer a Tier 1 deck, but then again Meddling mages are also still played.
Last edited by Ragnarok; 10-07-2007 at 06:26 PM.
I like your list, but I have some problems with it...
From the SB
-3 Shattering Spree
-3 Tormod's Crypt
+4 Leyline of the Void (Should be something else)
+2 Ancient Grudge
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Does anyone think that this deck might run Tarfires to boost Goyf?
Today, I've been testing the following UGRW list on MWS and I have to say that my first impressions are good (for now, I've played against Elves, Didgeridoo.dec, Horsemanship + Equipment... not! , I've mostly playtested against UGR and UGW-Threshold, Goblins, Belcher and Cephalid Breakfast ).
Here's the list:
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions/Ponder
4 Predict
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Counterbalance
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Mystic Enforcer
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
Sideboard (needs work)
4 Pyroclasm
4 Meddling Mage
3 Krosan Grip
2 Control Magic
2 Pithing Needle
For the most part, I took a UGR list and swapped the Fire/Ice with StoP, added two Mystic Enforcers and changed the manabase. I play CB-Top maindeck because Threshold and friends are common in my metagame. What do you think of my decklist ?
Crypt is better in Thresh than Leyline simply because of all the cantrips Thresh runs (especially now that they have the blistering fast Ponder). If you don't find Leyline, you are in serious trouble, but if you don't find Crypt, you can desperately dig for it like a mad man in 1-2 turns and, if you find it, immediately play and activate it.
Also, if Leyline gets blown up then you are in trouble, but if Crypt dies you have the rest to try to use.
On the other hand Grudge over Spree is right for so many reasons I don't feel like listing them all. But yes, that is totally right.
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
On the other hand,
Abeyance, Needle, Chalice, and such stop Crypt from being effective. The fact it forces you to mulligan is a small drawback, seeing as this deck only needs a land and a cantrip to work.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
The problem is, if you mulligan twice and find no Leyline, you are COMPLETELY boned. With Tormod's Crypt you at least have the cantrip plan to go by.
Besides, the only deck you will have to worry about Abeyance antics like that from is Breakfast, and you should have other outlets against them as well, otherwise you are doomed anyway. Buying time is better than nothing (Note both Crypt and Leyline do that.)
Team Multi-Grain - We're wholesome.
Which forces you to draw into a hand that has:
1 Blue card.
1 Force of Will.
1 Leyline of the Void.
4 other decent cards.
Ichorid and other graveyard decks are going to be running bounce to counter Void and getting one bounce through is going to end your game.
Would they mull for the bounce? Because chances are, I'll probably find my counters to protect my Leyline before they can find bounce.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
@ aTn: I like the look of your deck a lot. Don't forget that white also gives you a potentially amazing SB card: Serenity.
Actually, I have been testing out a version of UGrw as well. The real only difference between our builds is that you have gone the CounterBalance route.
2 Mystic Enforcer
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Predict
4 Ponder
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worship
2 Pithing Needle
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
Sideboard
3 Meddling Mage
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Krosan Grip
3 Pyroclasm
1 Worship
2 Threads of Disloyalty
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash
Nice list Kabal !
I forgot about WorshipDo you have anecdotes/comments about testing with Worship ?
@MathH: Yeah, I forgot about Serenity also (probably because match-ups like Affinity or other decks against which it would be useful aren't that common in my meta). What specific match-ups did you have in mind when you recommended Serenity ?
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