How about Spiderwig Boggart for an almost unblockable Piledriver? Could break through stall situations very easily.
Yes but that is the only thing that guye could do! So he is not so good...Originally Posted by Schtames Ryan
“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.
If your going to play black goblins please find a way to play therapy and smother.
I'm pretty familiar with the new goblins in Lorwyn and I don't really believe it adds anything to Legacy Goblins. All of the black goblin cards in Lorwyn are good, but I believe they are all "win-more" cards that are not necessary. If I played R/b goblins, I would run therapy main deck with smother and maybe bidding in the board. I believe Legacy Goblins is very good and the new set does add some neat cards, but they are not needed in the deck.
~Shriek~
and oversold cemetary (or oath of ghouls) in g2 when your opponent has removed all his counterspells and enchantment removals?
Just brainstorming here, but wouldn't Mogg Maniac be a decent foil to Tarmogoyf?
Maybe block the Tarmogoyf with the Maniac (perhaps even vialling in Maniac during the declare blockers step) and then, with damage on the stack, regenerate the Maniac with Mad Auntie or something.
Also, when combined with Gempalm Incinerator and/or Skirk Fire Marshal, Mogg Maniac gives goblins a bit more reach.
What about this build? Source: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/14902.html
R/B Goblins
Maindeck:
4 Aether Vial
4 Thorn Of Amethyst
4 Boggart Mob
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Siege-gang Commander
3 Wort, Boggart Auntie
5 Mountain
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 City Of Traitors
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard:
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Dralnu's Crusade
4 Leyline Of The Void
4 Cabal Therapy
Bogart Mob sucks.
Where's Mogg Fanatic?
Why in god's name are you running three Wort?
Where's your maindeck removal?
yes, the white splash gives us crib swap which is the best answer against tarmogoyf imho.The best splash after Lorwyn is W according to me, Crib Swap and Mirror entity are the best items (just figure out that they are goblins). However I understand that a double splash B would be promising just in order to play Wort*1.
Mirror entity is a win more card only when you have a lot of mana so i think it's not an auto-include.
I'm working on a Rwb version with 2 crib swap and 1 wort MD (but i can't find a place for her), 4 oversold cemetary SB (and maybe planar void)
All suggestions are welcome ;)
Re: Puddin
Wort seems like a fine answer to goyf. Recurring chumps + evasion = win. (especially when chumps are seige-gang, matron, or ringleader) Assuming you have an auntie, wort is allready out of fire/ice range, and can be out of bolt range. Wort is a house, and IMO the reason to splash black in the first place.
Not Quite familiar with the intricate mechanice of goblins, but maybe there is a call for 4 Thought Seize and 4 Therapy?
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Doing that takes away the effectiveness of Ringleader. That has always been the problem with Goblins, you can only adapt so much without sacrificing structural integrity.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
Check out http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=7441 for a possible new Goblin deck.
Wort is very good but i don't think it's the first reason to splash black...
its thoughness is 3 so can be bolted easily.
But you say, with mad auntie it's invincible... ok it can be true but you take the wrong way if you base your strategy on this.
the first reason to splash black imho is for oversold cemetary in SB (more more solid than wort), wort is just a plus
I Just won a six round tournament undefeated with R/B goblins in Akron, OH. My list was as follows:
//Artifacts//
4 x AEther Vial
4 x Thorn of Amethyst
//Creatures//
4 x Goblin Lackey
3 x Goblin Sledder
4 x Goblin Piledriver
1 x Goblin Tinkerer
4 x Goblin Warchief
1 x Mad Auntie
4 x Goblin Matron
3 x Gempalm Incinerator
1 x Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 x Goblin Ringleader
2 x Siege-Gang Commander
//Lands//
4 x Badlands
4 x Bloodstained Mire
5 x Mountain
2 x Swamp
4 x Wasteland
2 x Wooded Foothills
//SB//
3 x Mad Auntie
4 x Thoughtsieze
4 x Chalice
1 x Goblin King
1 x Goblin Settler
1 x Goblin Sharpshooter
1 x Goblin Tinkerer
My rounds were as follows:
Match 1:
vs GRW rifter
turn two on the play he living wishes for a Tividar of thorn after seeing my Aether Vial. I draw (frowns) a turn two lackey who debates (and eventually does) going through the vial his turn three EoT. His turn thrre play is Tividar, with no targets. I vial in lackey EoT, move vial up to two, and Go turn three warchief, vial in driver, swing with lackey, driver, and chief. He (correctly) blocks lackey and goes to 12. (with a fetch) His turn four he swings in for two, drops astral slide and cycles to blink Tividar, killing warchief. I lose this game after my turn four ringleader hits jack-squat and he goes turn five swing, Hierarch, cycle/blink tividar killing driver leaving him at 16 and me with a lonely ringleader.
Game two I get crazy-go-nuts hand with turn one lackey, turn two swing in and drop siege-gang, play driver, turn three play sledder, swing for infinite. He cant keep up, and he futily wishes for (but cant play) a tividar his turn three only to dies on my turn four. Yippee for lackey brokenness.
Game three is very close, with him getting lightning rift AND slide along with tividar, but my first auntie answers his slide, protecting my driver and chief. He attempts to blink tividar/rift auntie, but I vial in auntie number two (!!) to keep the rift from killing her and tap to regen his tividar target. I evenutally get three vials on board after a standoff against two hierarchs, tividar, a couple of walls, and rift/slide. I chain-vial matron for ringleader hitting siege gang, which i vial in, and sledder, who lets me push through all my hasty dudes for lethal. Sledder brings home the bacon and warrents my choice over fanatic.
Match 2
Vs mono-blue modded Faerie-stompy.
He is playing a literal faerie stompy without drakes, but with every annoying faerie ever printed, including two maindeck 1/1 pr reds, and four 2/1 pro-reds. He also has tap-down champion faerie, cloud, ect. I pummel him game one with double driver and lackey shennanigens.
Game two he lands three (!!!) 2/1 pro-red guys in a row and beats for three a turn with his 4/4 champion until he can swing for a lethal 10 in the air. Hacks. Can't see a driver to save me in this game.
Game three he forces driver number one, and does something nutty like cloud of faeries, cloud of faeries, scion of (whatever, the 1/1 faerie lord that pumps others and gives them shroud.) I tell him he'd better have scion number two or another force, and instead of playing scion number two, he opts to bounce my warchief to gain tempo. I tell him if I hit a land, he loses, and that he should have played scion number two and just won next turn. I draw a land, play warchief via vial, and matron for a sharpshooter, killing his entire board.
Match 3:
Vs UGr thresh
My buddy Kyle Paster is playing his thresh deck, and he scoops to me to go get food,as I won all four of the mathes we tested before the tournament started. Some of the matches we tested went as follows:
1. I play turn one lackey, he doesnt have a turn one goose or bolt: I win
2. He keeps a one or two lander and a cantrip. I play vial, then waste his land turn two
3. I play torn turn two, and he can't grow dryad/cantip into a goyf fast enough to stop the goblin team.
4. I get thoughtsize on goyf, chalice at one, or two aunties post boards.
5. I get wort and chump his goyf ad nausuem. (one with a matron, which I recurrec every turn until I could swing in with chief, matron, wort, and two drivers)
Game one vs thresh was about 50/50 unless he kept a one-lander or didnt have an answer ro turn one leackey. This apparently happened often, as after the first few trial matches, he'd agressivly mull into an active force, or bolt, or a two lander with a cantrip and goyf. I also won a lot of games thanks to sledder, and it DOES let lackey through after they answer with goose. (that or they trade a goose for a sledder and have to deal with lackey turn two (niether of which is a good position for thresh) Games two and three were slightly favorable for golbins, (I boarded out tinkerer, four thorns and three incinerators for three mad aunties, one goblin king, and four chalices.)
Match four:
vs Stifle-naught
Again a deck piloted by another member of my team, Anthony Cuevas, who was undefeated up to this point. We tie so he can make it to the top four, but play it out as we have nothing else to do. Game one he has no answer to turn one lackey (save for stifle) and I know this, so when lackey resolves, I pretty much have the win for game one.
Game two he lands an early dreadnought with me only having a vial at one on the board. I move vial up to two, drop matron fetching tinkerer, and activate vial (no stifle) to put tinkerer on the board before his draw. He swings in for 11, and I untap and kill dreadnaught. His only way to win after a tinkerer is on the board is trinket mage, and I soundly pummel him with little red guys.
On a side note I must stress how imperitive it is to include the often-overlooked tinkerer in the side (or preferably main) of any (save for possible RG as tin-street is superior so long as chief isnt on the board.) build. Tinkerer is a house against needles on vial, e-explosives (with warchief, otherwise, serves as a deterant) and jitte, as well as wrecking other random artifacts, such a dreadnaughts and vials in the mirror.
Semi-finals:
I'm paired against Kyle Paster again, and he scoops me in to the finals as he kows that he, myself, and Anthony are all in the top four, and thresh has major problems dealing with counter-top (in addition to all the normal counters and the 11/11 trampler) as well as thorn, thoughtsieze, and quads auntie + mountainwalking King. Anthony wins his match against Junk deck (GWB with confidant, goyf, deed, StP, Vindi, Hymn, ect) and we play again in the finals.
Finals:
We decide once again, to play it out for the experience. Game one is mine thanks to being on the play and a turn one vial that invalidated his balance. (retrospectivly, a balance on the draw against goblins is pretty weak and he should have thrown it back) Post-boards, I drop my thorns and incinerators for the pump-suite as well as two cashsiezes and an additional tinkerer, who comes down early and ensures the win. Anthony and I pool our store credit and I pick up my Berserk out of the case and call it a night.
Sidenotes:
In the hours before the tournament, I also tested against Anthony's TES deck, and we determined that after Thron MB, goblins does stand a chance against storm-based combo, and game one was sligtly in his favor due to his three (!!) copies of EtW MB and, (go figure) goblins can't deal with 10-14 little red guys on turn one/two. Games two and three improve considerably due to all the board-hate, including chalcie and cashseize. Sharpshooter also discouraged him from going with the goblin plan unless he could get them on turn one or two (though we found two was too late in one game with chief and sharp in hand (not likely, but it happens))
I played against Junk.dec, and won soundly due to the card advantage of ringleader/matron/wort. I had a chief on the board with lethal via a driver facing down a deed, and simply played a matron via vial , and made him pop the deed, afterwards playing my matron-fetched wort. The games were similar to playing against a back-peddling burn deck, where his deck couldnt draw/play answers to my deck nearly fast enough.
I've tested de Thorn also MD this weekend with a positive result.
Did you win with the black splash you would lose with an other splash?
I'm still not sure about which color to splash...
Against BGW junk deck I believe that black was the key factor that allowed me to put as much pressure as I did on the opponent while being able to recover from deed so quickly. Wort reviving matron to fetch driver after a wrath effect is absolutly amazing.
Against Rifter and Thresh, preboards I think that the black spash was about on level footing with the white. I really only see Crib swap being in the main in a Rw build, and tutorable swap would have ended the goyf/tividar problem, but a living wish for a tividar whom I crib swap'ed would be embarassing. Slide also would have protected his tividar if I had tried it again. I personally preffer Rb post-boards, as thoughtsieze and a full set of Mad Aunties make a lot more of a difference than what the white side has to offer. (rule of law or seal of cleansing I presume, as I've played the white splash pre-lorwyn)
I think thorn is really the card that brings R (whatever splash) goblins up to snuff, as it doesnt effect goblins in the least, (save for dropping a second vial for 2 or a second thorn for 3) and it slows other decks immensly (daze and FoW are no longer free counters, as the thorn gives spells an additional cost, and does not effect their CMC, which the pitch cost replaces paying)
Have you ever played the green splash?
This is my build now:
Do you think your build is better?
4x Æther Vial
4x Thorn of Amethyst
3x Gempalm Incinerator
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
4x Goblin Warchief
3x Mogg Fanatic
2x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Tin Street Hooligan
3x Wooded Foothills
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Mountain
4x Taiga
4x Wasteland
4x Rishadan Port
SIDEBOARD
4x Pithing Needle
3x Tormod’s Crypt
1x Goblin King
4x Krosan Grip
3x Pyrokinesis
I've played the green splash before back when affinity was a DTB and you'd run into more goblin mirror matches than thresh decks. I am not that big a fan of tin street outside of extended (he allways hit a signet or something) as with him as a one-of, if you plan on killing an artifact, you have to not play him until you see the art in question, and then if you have warchief out he doesnt even do that. I don't think that grip is any better than seal of primordium in the SB, as primordium kills standstill, and you dont have to keep mana open to wait for whatever threat you fear.
I think the black splash contributes much more than the green, and with affinity even less frequently seen than goblins, I feel that the Rw build is now even superior to the green splash. White offers RFG and killing things that have pro-red/black, while the black offers hand disruption, card advantage, and Mad Auntie, the best thing you can see in the goblins mirror.
I think your sideboard needs updating. I ran pyrokenises back in the day with Rw and Rg goblins, as it was good in the mirror and against some affinity builds. Now, you'd be lucky if you could two-for one yourself to even kill one goyf with it. I'd pass. 4 Needles is at least one too many, and I dont see any SB solutions to combo decks, which is one of goblins' hardest matchups. Better pray for turn one lackey on the play into a turn two thorn and siege-gang if you're up against combo. a single tutorable sharpshooter would at least give you a chance against EtW tokens. Thorn is good, but it helps to have more than JUST thorn to fight combo (it gives you anywhere from 1-3 turns against them , but if you dont have a lackey, they'll probably still roll you over even with one thorn. You can't mull into thorn, lackey every time, so I'd suggest some chalices/leylines/pyro pillar SB to handle combo.
I don't like the eight colorless lands in a two-color goblins build, as if you lose/dont see vial you WILL have to hardcast warcheif, and if he hits a turn late, that can be GG. Keep in mind, after warchief is out there, you'll often want to be using RR or RRR each turn with all your matron/ringleader shennanagins. Port, IMO, belongs in Mono-Red or prision sytle goblins builds only.
My $.02
I know I have to update my SB. I think I wrote it down in the other Goblinthread. What would you play in SB? Chalice?
I admit I think the Black splash is better then my build, but I have no Badlands/Thoughtseize AND no budget to buy them...
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