[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[Bryant Cook]

What do you guys take out against thresh? I mean some of your lists run 2 swarms, 4 pyroblasts/reb. What do you take out without hurting the deck too much?

Also how often do you use the duress in the board. lately, I almost never use it and am thinking about cutting it.

I take out 1 ETW, 2 SSG, 2 Cabal Ritual, 1 X (normally a Chrome Mox). I like the Duress in the board, helps you in troublesome matches; such as Landstill or BBS.

[NQN]

I use Duress soooo often. Well, actually it makes Burning Wish a Protection Spell which helps alot if you want to play Chant. I would never cut it.

NQN

[APriestOfGix]

Whats your current list Bryant?

[Bryant Cook]

Whats your current list Bryant?

Same list as two pages back,

// Lands
4 [AN] City of Brass
4 [WL] Gemstone Mine
2 [VI] Undiscovered Paradise

// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide

// Spells
1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [JU] Burning Wish
4 [R] Dark Ritual
4 [CS] Rite of Flame
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [PS] Orim's Chant
1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
1 [MI] Infernal Contract
2 [TO] Cabal Ritual
1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
2 [LRW] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AL] Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 [PT] Cruel Bargain
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 3 [IA] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [b] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [US] Duress
SB: 1 [b] Tranquility
SB: 2 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [IA] Pyroclasm

[yawg07]

The list I've been kicking around lately (with success, mind you) is actually similar to that list.
You have ...

2 Cabal Ritual
2 Draw 4

I have ...

1 Cabal Ritual
1 Draw4
2 Duress

I also have liked Seething Song a lot as a one of in my testing.
It has been a while since I've checked back to this thread, lol

I've been contemplating the Brainstorm:Ponder ratio.
All my ratios so far have been 4:2, but I've been leaning towards 3:3 or 2:4.

Have you guys ventured into that yet? How did it pan out for you?

[andrew77]

The list I've been kicking around lately (with success, mind you) is actually similar to that list.
You have ...

2 Cabal Ritual
2 Draw 4

I have ...

1 Cabal Ritual
1 Draw4
2 Duress

I also have liked Seething Song a lot as a one of in my testing.
It has been a while since I've checked back to this thread, lol

I've been contemplating the Brainstorm:Ponder ratio.
All my ratios so far have been 4:2, but I've been leaning towards 3:3 or 2:4.

Have you guys ventured into that yet? How did it pan out for you?

No. just no.

Seriously ponder is aweful compared to brainstorm. So it shuffles the deck at times. Big deal. You have no idea what will be on top. Brainstorm also enables so many more turn one kills. Going land, brainstorm effectively gives you 10 cards to work with on turn one. Ponder will not let you get rid of crappy cards and replace them with goodies you have on top.

[yawg07]

I understand that point of view for sure.
And there are times when you don't have an LED and you need to
brainstorm a land or two out of your hand so you can Infernal Tutor.

Maybe it is just my luck lately, then.
50% of the time I brainstorm lately I'd have rather Pondered and shuffled.

[andrew77]

I understand that point of view for sure.
And there are times when you don't have an LED and you need to
brainstorm a land or two out of your hand so you can Infernal Tutor.

Maybe it is just my luck lately, then.
50% of the time I brainstorm lately I'd have rather Pondered and shuffled.

Try cutting the duresses and adding some business spells then. 4 brainstorm/3 ponder worked out fine in testing. For me the right number was somewhere in between 6 and 7 cantrips. You basically love seeing one in your opening hand, but getting 2 can start slowing you down, and 3 will make things very clunky. I remember when I tried cutting the plunges from the old list to make room for 8 maindeck protection spells via xantid and I was having problems hitting business spells.

It might just be your luck since my current list is similar to yours...
-2 duress
-1 simian spirit guide
+1 draw 4
+2 cabal rituals

I have also recently tinkered with dropping another ponder and adding a draw 4. Its adds some random power, but loses a bit of consistency as you almost never want to see 2 draw 4's in an opening hand. There are also times you just cant cast them.

[Adan]

That's the reason why I would go for Plunge into Darkness again.
I always had the feeling that the deck suffered a lack of tutors since you (wastedlife) cutted Plunge into Darkness. But I can understand that, because the huge lifeloss would make TES more vulnerable against fast clocks (and combo should be faster).

But I tested the Draw4s, they are so fucking insane. It just gives you a huge advantage and is not dead within the comboturn compared to Dark Confidant. It can also win instantaneously sometimes.

[andrew77]

That's the reason why I would go for Plunge into Darkness again.
I always had the feeling that the deck suffered a lack of tutors since you (wastedlife) cutted Plunge into Darkness. But I can understand that, because the huge lifeloss would make TES more vulnerable against fast clocks (and combo should be faster).

But I tested the Draw4s, they are so fucking insane. It just gives you a huge advantage and is not dead within the comboturn compared to Dark Confidant. It can also win instantaneously sometimes.

Draw 4's help you so much. I haven't really cut them from my list since they were added as I love the advantage they can provide. A lot of times certain thresh variants or discard decks can pretty much stop your first attempt to combo with ease and destroy your hand at the same time. A draw 4 is almost always a must counter, so playing one before the combo turn will bait a counter from them. Playing it after the combo turn will threaten a kill. It is also an insane topdeck.

Also looking at the worlds 4-1 decks someone played a version of TES. It looks like a fairly old version of the deck as it is still using plunge, and tomb.

[dlevsApiJ]

The guy who was 2nd at the Dutch championship (1 page back, on the top on the page) also plays 2 Plunge (instead of the Draw4 played here) and 1 Tomb of Urami.. I also still play the Tomb, you win games on it, so why dont play it..

At the moment I play 8 Cantrips, but I'm thinking of cutting 2 Ponder for 2 Draw4..

And I like the Hull Breach in the "list from worlds". Also 4 Shattering Spree looks good, cause cards as CotV and Trini (but this card is still hard to kill with Spree, cause I dont play SSG.. They dont give storm and in my metagame there is many Discard, so Cabal Ritual is better here I think) are can kill you.

But then I have to cut 4 Xantid Swarm or 4 Duress (yeah, I play it over Pyroblast, also because of the metagame...)

Mvg

[matelml]

Also looking at the worlds 4-1 decks someone played a version of TES. It looks like a fairly old version of the deck as it is still using plunge, and tomb.

Just because people used to play Plunges and Tomb and many switched to other choices doesn't necessarilly mean they are inferior. I still play both not because of limited, old information but because I like them.

[Bryant Cook]

Just because people used to play Plunges and Tomb and many switched to other choices doesn't necessarilly mean they are inferior. I still play both not because of limited, old information but because I like them.

Tomb doesn't cast Chant, Brainstorm, Ponder, Rite of Flame or Burning Wish. That's why it was cut. These cards are too essential not to cast. As for Plunge I am sure as hell not going back to it, Contract and Bargain are just simply better. Hell play ponder as a 4x before plunge, atleats you can shuffle the chafe away without costing you 5-10 life.

Yeah, I saw the worlds list of TES, congrats to that dude.

[Citrus-God]

I think it's a mistake to cut the 2 Abeyances. It's everything players fear put into one card. Although TES needs to compete with Counterbalance, I'll opt for Bound // Determined. I mean, seriously, cut the Cabal Rits. Cabal Rits onl accelerate when you have two Draw 4's, six cantrips, and 12 Rituals (LED counts as Rituals when protection is resolved).

[Bryant Cook]

With Draw 4's you generally draw into Chant/Burning Wish-> Duress. If not the cards themselves a Brainstorm/Ponder will find one, that you likely drew off a draw 4. Draw 4's are crazy dangerous with this deck.

[matelml]

I think it's a mistake to cut the 2 Abeyances. It's everything players fear put into one card. Although TES needs to compete with Counterbalance, I'll opt for Bound // Determined. I mean, seriously, cut the Cabal Rits. Cabal Rits onl accelerate when you have two Draw 4's, six cantrips, and 12 Rituals (LED counts as Rituals when protection is resolved).

I don't know if you ever play this deck, but in my opinion it is too rare that you can pay 1W and still go off the same turn. Many times you can't even cast the Chant.

Tomb doesn't cast Chant, Brainstorm, Ponder, Rite of Flame or Burning Wish. That's why it was cut. These cards are too essential not to cast. As for Plunge I am sure as hell not going back to it, Contract and Bargain are just simply better. Hell play ponder as a 4x before plunge, atleats you can shuffle the chafe away without costing you 5-10 life.

Yeah, I saw the worlds list of TES, congrats to that dude.

I'm not sure if the Tomb is optimal, but it's pretty good, especially game 2-3 and if you play enough other mana sources (I play it next to 10 5c lands).

I really like Plunge. Ponder just doesn't find that tutor or LED often enough for me, so I play both. I played 1 Ponder/2 Plunge at the Dutch Champs, but will probably switch to 3 Ponder/2 Plunge and play 1 EtW instead of 3. Most of the time I cast Plunge EOT for LED/Dark Ritual or Tutor/Wish and proceed to win in my turn, so the lifeloss won't matter. The loss of life actually matters a lot more with Contract as you usually pass the turn after casting it. And usually I prefer having 1 extra LED or Tutor without investment of resources over 4 extra random cards that I have to spend acceleration on.
Another advantage is that with some hands with Plunge + a lot of mana you can just combo right away without using it as setup, which would be way too risky with Ponder/Contract, especially if you sacced a LED.

I just wouldn't play more than 2 Plunge because it's very bad in multiples, and they are just the Tutors 9-10 that can be used to find accel/protection too.

[andrew77]

Recently I have been toying with some random things in the board. For example I run a single confidant since a lot of people in my area still don't know what TES is and if I board him in and they see him they will assume I have 4 and bring things like stp back in.

On abeyance... there are few matchups where the card is even ideal. Against almost every blue control deck out there you would prefer pyroblast or reb.

My biggest problem with plunge atm is that it costs 2. I dont really want to cast it turn one and waste a ssg or some other form of accel, and casting it turn 2 leads to a turn 3 kill, which imo is a bit slow. Ponder digs pretty deep and is a turn one play. When you arent comboing off on turn one running ponders/brainstorms let you work on setting up a t2 kill. The only advantage i see with plunge is that after a dreturns when you might not have blue open or when you need to find a kill condition it allows you to dig deeper and what not. Those situations are rare though and imo dont warrant running plunge.

[BreathWeapon]

Ponder is still the best card I've used in the open slots, TES's biggest flaw is that it's inconsistent and it's mulligans set it back several turns. Ponder is a self sufficient fixer, in the same sense that Night Whispers or Plunge into Darkness was, except it's in a drop that the deck needs to fill after Orim's Chant replaced Xantid Swarm. Sure, Draw4s are awesome if you have a Dark Ritual in your hand and your opponent doesn't have a counter in his, but TES's strength comes from never giving the opponent a clear target to counter, and Draw4s are counter intuitive in that sense. Draw4s either force you to play bad cards, Cabal Ritual, force you into the red zone or force you to play too few of them to matter. Ponder gets the job done, doesn't give your opponent a target and is 100% reliable. Even in multiples the card is great, you just cast Ponder to hit another mana land etc. and it's plus one storm for the turn.

[Bryant Cook]

Ponder gets the job done, doesn't give your opponent a target and is 100% reliable. Even in multiples the card is great, you just cast Ponder to hit another mana land etc. and it's plus one storm for the turn.

Ponder doesn't always get the job done, sometimes you need more than one card. Why waste a card to get a land mid combo? Also, seems terrible. with 8 cantrips in the deck you spend too much time cantripping, trust me I've tested the hell out of this. Most of the time you don't win until turn 3-4 because you're stuck with more Blue or White cards in your hand. I'd rather just draw 4 cards and win the game that turn, do you know how good turn 1 Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual into Cruel Bargain is? Not even that against control you tap 3 lands and Bargain. You don't even waste accel and it's a must counter. If it's game two you can even Red blast it to make sure your bomb resolves without investing too much like LED -> Diminishing Returns. Cabal Ritual may not be a good card but I wouldn't say it's bad. It has it's moments, Threshold makes it another LED after all.

[Citrus-God]

Ponder doesn't always get the job done, sometimes you need more than one card. Why waste a card to get a land mid combo? Also, seems terrible. with 8 cantrips in the deck you spend too much time cantripping, trust me I've tested the hell out of this. Most of the time you don't win until turn 3-4 because you're stuck with more Blue or White cards in your hand. I'd rather just draw 4 cards and win the game that turn, do you know how good turn 1 Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual into Cruel Bargain is? Not even that against control you tap 3 lands and Bargain. You don't even waste accel and it's a must counter. If it's game two you can even Red blast it to make sure your bomb resolves without investing too much like LED -> Diminishing Returns. Cabal Ritual may not be a good card but I wouldn't say it's bad. It has it's moments, Threshold makes it another LED after all.

Have you tried increasing the Cabal Rit and Draw 4 count yet? From what you've said, you can seriously bait the hell of out a lot of Control and still maintain a strong game against it.