[Deck] TES - The EPIC Storm

[Bryant Cook]

Have you tried increasing the Cabal Rit and Draw 4 count yet? From what you've said, you can seriously bait the hell of out a lot of Control and still maintain a strong game against it.

From what I believe is accurate testing 2/2 on the split is the best. Because with 3/3 or 4/4 you just often at times start to rely on Cruel Bargain or Infernal Contract and TES doesn't rely on anything at the moment. Which happens to be one of it's strengths, also, with too many Ponders/Brainstorm effects you begin to concentrate too much on cantripping. When this happens your Gemstone Mine finds it's way to the graveyard a lot faster.

[Citrus-God]

From what I believe is accurate testing 2/2 on the split is the best. Because with 3/3 or 4/4 you just often at times start to rely on Cruel Bargain or Infernal Contract and TES doesn't rely on anything at the moment. Which happens to be one of it's strengths, also, with too many Ponders/Brainstorm effects you begin to concentrate too much on cantripping. When this happens your Gemstone Mine finds it's way to the graveyard a lot faster.

With this testing, what has been your average goldfish? It seems that it's still Turn 2 with protection in the form of Chant. If Chant gets countered, you can easily slowroll your opponent through cantripping and Draw 4s until you bait him out.

[Bryant Cook]

With this testing, what has been your average goldfish? It seems that it's still Turn 2 with protection in the form of Chant. If Chant gets countered, you can easily slowroll your opponent through cantripping and Draw 4s until you bait him out.

I can't really tell you an average, although I have to say I've been pulling off a lot more turn one's with Ponder AND Draw 4's in the deck. Turn one Ponder finding LED is simply amazing, however, turn one Dark Ritual into a Draw 4 usually means game over. If I had to guess, I'd say anywhere between 1.5 and 2, so about 1.75? It all depends on how you're comfortable winning too. If you're not afraid of going for Warrens, it could be as low as 1.25, honestly. I believe my newest list is almost as fast as Belcher but more stable and has a better control match-up.

[Citrus-God]

I can't really tell you an average, although I have to say I've been pulling off a lot more turn one's with Ponder AND Draw 4's in the deck. Turn one Ponder finding LED is simply amazing, however, turn one Dark Ritual into a Draw 4 usually means game over. If I had to guess, I'd say anywhere between 1.5 and 2, so about 1.75? It all depends on how you're comfortable winning too. If you're not afraid of going for Warrens, it could be as low as 1.25, honestly. I believe my newest list is almost as fast as Belcher but more stable and has a better control match-up.

What is your approach against control? Go for the throat or slowroll them? Perhaps it's hand dependent?

[Bryant Cook]

I stopped the slowroll plan. It's bullshit. You can sometimes win, however, more than likely their hand is better. Your hand is almost always better turns 1-3. Comboing off sooner is always better than later.

[BreathWeapon]

Ponder doesn't always get the job done, sometimes you need more than one card. Why waste a card to get a land mid combo? Also, seems terrible. with 8 cantrips in the deck you spend too much time cantripping, trust me I've tested the hell out of this. Most of the time you don't win until turn 3-4 because you're stuck with more Blue or White cards in your hand. I'd rather just draw 4 cards and win the game that turn, do you know how good turn 1 Dark Ritual or Cabal Ritual into Cruel Bargain is? Not even that against control you tap 3 lands and Bargain. You don't even waste accel and it's a must counter. If it's game two you can even Red blast it to make sure your bomb resolves without investing too much like LED -> Diminishing Returns. Cabal Ritual may not be a good card but I wouldn't say it's bad. It has it's moments, Threshold makes it another LED after all.

I know how good resolving a Draw4 is, I was the first person to suggest it in the deck, but it's risk vs reward, for the times that a Draw4 slips thru', I often would have won regardless, for the times the Draw4 countered, I wonder whether or not it was an optimal use of resources. Ponder is the more consistent card, but it's also the less impressive card, you just have to decide which of those two factors is more important to you.

[Bryant Cook]

What do people think of replacing the 2 Cabal Rituals with Ponder? I was doing a ton of testing yesterday and found Cabal Ritual to be underwhelming. I'm doing some more testing with EPIC tonight, I'll let people know how it goes. I'm afraid 10 draw spells might be overkill, or If I'm still spending too much time cantripping. Who knows it might be different with 2 draw 4's in the deck.

[Jak]

What do people think of replacing the 2 Cabal Rituals with Ponder? I was doing a ton of testing yesterday and found Cabal Ritual to be underwhelming. I'm doing some more testing with EPIC tonight, I'll let people know how it goes. I'm afraid 10 draw spells might be overkill, or If I'm still spending too much time cantripping. Who knows it might be different with 2 draw 4's in the deck.

Ponder is better as a 2of, IMO. I played 4 for a little bit, but found them to be all that I had. I felt that 6 Cantrips was a very good number because you only want to see one.

I really like Cabal Ritual. Sure, it is not as great as Dark Rit, but it aloows me to cast Draw 4s easier and when you can get thresh with them, you will most likely win. I also like having more rituals in the deck because it does make the deck faster than 2 Ponders.

Please let me know how the testing goes.

[andrew77]

What do people think of replacing the 2 Cabal Rituals with Ponder? I was doing a ton of testing yesterday and found Cabal Ritual to be underwhelming. I'm doing some more testing with EPIC tonight, I'll let people know how it goes. I'm afraid 10 draw spells might be overkill, or If I'm still spending too much time cantripping. Who knows it might be different with 2 draw 4's in the deck.

4 ponder, 4 brainstorm, and 2 draw 4's is just way too clunky. The draw 4's can be clunky even with 2 cabal rits, but when you drop them it is so much worse. Opening hands with 2 cantrips are pretty weak too.

In my testing 7 cantrips was the absolute maximum. At 6 I found myself wanting to open with a cantrip more often, but once I started playing 7 I was getting hands with 2 and 3 cantrips a bit too often for my liking. Adding the 7th cantrip would also mean cutting a cabal rit, which I didn't want to do.

[Mental]

Hey everyone. I just finished my TES list last night (Ok, I'm missing 2 Orim's Chants). My list is the same as Wastedlife's current list. I came home and goldfished around 20 games, and was winning consistently on turns 2-3. This deck is amazingly consistent and powerful.

That said, I have trouble knowing when to mulligan. So I'll present some sample hands and you'll tell me whether or not to mulligan. Thanks.

Hand 1:
Brainstorm
LED
2x Dark Ritual
Brainstorm
Empty the Warrens
2x Orim's Chant

I assume you mulligan this one.

Hand 2:
LED
Rite of Flame
Simian Spirit Guide
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Dark Ritual
Brainstorm

Hand 3:
Ill-Gotten Gains
Rite of Flame
Cabal Ritual
2x Infernal Tutor
Lion's Eye Diamond
Brainstorm

Hand 4:
City of Brass
2x Brainstorm
Simian Spirit Guide
Burning Wish
Gemstone Mine
Orim's Chant

Hand 5:
LED
Gemstone Mine
Undiscovered Paradise
Burning Wish
2x Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm

Hand 6:
2x LED
Gemstone Mine
City of Brass
Orim's Chant
Cabal Ritual
Ill-Gotten Gains

Hand 7:
Gemstone Mine
Chrome Mox
2x Burning Wish
Infernal Tutor
LED
Orim's Chant

Thanks for the help.

[APriestOfGix]

Hey everyone. I just finished my TES list last night (Ok, I'm missing 2 Orim's Chants). My list is the same as Wastedlife's current list. I came home and goldfished around 20 games, and was winning consistently on turns 2-3. This deck is amazingly consistent and powerful.

That said, I have trouble knowing when to mulligan. So I'll present some sample hands and you'll tell me whether or not to mulligan. Thanks.

i also suck at mulling so i'll give it a shot and see what others say...

Hand 1:
Brainstorm
LED
2x Dark Ritual
Brainstorm
Empty the Warrens
2x Orim's Chant

I assume you mulligan this one.
mull

Hand 2:
LED
Rite of Flame
Simian Spirit Guide
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Dark Ritual
Brainstorm

keep

Hand 3:
Ill-Gotten Gains
Rite of Flame
Cabal Ritual
2x Infernal Tutor
Lion's Eye Diamond
Brainstorm

mull

Hand 4:
City of Brass
2x Brainstorm
Simian Spirit Guide
Burning Wish
Gemstone Mine
Orim's Chant

depends on what you are playing

Hand 5:
LED
Gemstone Mine
Undiscovered Paradise
Burning Wish
2x Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm

KEEP! 1st turn brainstorm, 2nd get another LED, 3rd win big(assuming you don't win turn 2 off the brainstorm)

Hand 6:
2x LED
Gemstone Mine
City of Brass
Orim's Chant
Cabal Ritual
Ill-Gotten Gains

keep

Hand 7:
Gemstone Mine
Chrome Mox
2x Burning Wish
Infernal Tutor
LED
Orim's Chant

keep

Thanks for the help.

[andrew77]

Hey everyone. I just finished my TES list last night (Ok, I'm missing 2 Orim's Chants). My list is the same as Wastedlife's current list. I came home and goldfished around 20 games, and was winning consistently on turns 2-3. This deck is amazingly consistent and powerful.

That said, I have trouble knowing when to mulligan. So I'll present some sample hands and you'll tell me whether or not to mulligan. Thanks.

Hand 1:
Brainstorm
LED
2x Dark Ritual
Brainstorm
Empty the Warrens
2x Orim's Chant

mull- you have no mana sources. Even if you draw a land or something you don't win right away.

I assume you mulligan this one.

Hand 2:
LED
Rite of Flame
Simian Spirit Guide
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Dark Ritual
Brainstorm

Mull- This hand can't do anything unless you topdeck a black source. I wouldn't risk it. Maybe if you were on the draw, but I'd still mull.

Hand 3:
Ill-Gotten Gains
Rite of Flame
Cabal Ritual
2x Infernal Tutor
Lion's Eye Diamond
Brainstorm

Mull

Hand 4:
City of Brass
2x Brainstorm
Simian Spirit Guide
Burning Wish
Gemstone Mine
Orim's Chant

Keep. You have protection, some lands a tutor and some brainstorms to shape the hand.

Hand 5:
LED
Gemstone Mine
Undiscovered Paradise
Burning Wish
2x Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm

keep- brainstorm, tutors, a pair of lands and LED. Very solid hand.

Hand 6:
2x LED
Gemstone Mine
City of Brass
Orim's Chant
Cabal Ritual
Ill-Gotten Gains

Mull on the play. Keep on the draw- You have no business spells. The hand is so strong though, that I would keep it if I were on the draw. 2 LED and chant pretty much ensures I will combo off whenever I draw a tutor

Hand 7:
Gemstone Mine
Chrome Mox
2x Burning Wish
Infernal Tutor
LED
Orim's Chant

Keep- This hand is probably a turn 2 win if you are undisrupted. Turn one mine mox imprinting a wish. Tutor for LED. Next turn drop LED's and wish for dreturns.

Thanks for the help.

[PuK]

Hand 7:
Gemstone Mine
Chrome Mox
2x Burning Wish
Infernal Tutor
LED
Orim's Chant

Keep- This hand is probably a turn 2 win if you are undisrupted. Turn one mine mox imprinting a wish. Tutor for LED. Next turn drop LED's and wish for dreturns.

Why dreturns?

Why not, "led, led, wish for igg, igg, led, led, tutor for igg, led, led, tutor for tendrils, tendrils"

Here is what i would do:

Hand 1:
Brainstorm
LED
2x Dark Ritual
Brainstorm
Empty the Warrens
2x Orim's Chant

Mull. if you kp on the draw and if you drew 1 land/petal/mox, you could brainstorm for tutor and win. But It's 18 chance out of 53 to get the land/lotus/mox and then 24 chance out of 52 to get the tutor.

Hand 2:
LED
Rite of Flame
Simian Spirit Guide
Infernal Tutor
Burning Wish
Dark Ritual
Brainstorm

Mull. Same as hand 1.

Hand 3:
Ill-Gotten Gains
Rite of Flame
Cabal Ritual
2x Infernal Tutor
Lion's Eye Diamond
Brainstorm

Mull. Same as hand 1 and 2

Hand 4:
City of Brass
2x Brainstorm
Simian Spirit Guide
Burning Wish
Gemstone Mine
Orim's Chant

Depends of the matchup. You have lands and 2 BS, but you have no accelerator. So you probably won't combo until turn 3.

Hand 5:
LED
Gemstone Mine
Undiscovered Paradise
Burning Wish
2x Infernal Tutor
Brainstorm

Keep. Bs turn one and win turn 2 if you draw a led/ritual. Or infernal turn 2 for a led and win turn 3.

Hand 6:
2x LED
Gemstone Mine
City of Brass
Orim's Chant
Cabal Ritual
Ill-Gotten Gains

You need a tutor here. So it depends of the matchup, if i had the time to wait for a tutor, i would keep.

Hand 7:
Gemstone Mine
Chrome Mox
2x Burning Wish
Infernal Tutor
LED
Orim's Chant

Keep, a strong hand.

[Bryant Cook]

Hand One: Mulligan
Hand Two: Keep on the Draw
Hand Three: Mulligan
Hand Four: Keep
Hand Five: keep
Hand Six: Keep
Hand Seven: Keep

I'm not very aggressive when it comes to mulliganing, those were also a lot of shitty hands.

[Mental]

Ok, about Sideboarding now:

I'm running:
3x Pyroblast
2x Abeyance
1x REB
1x Hull Breach
1x Infernal Contract
1x IGG
1x DReturns
1x Duress
1x Cave-In
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x EtW
1x Tranquility

Seems fairly standard. Anyway, I was just looking for some help SBing in the Abeyances and Pyroblasts/REB. For instance, I want to board all that in vs. Landstill, but I'm afraid to cut anything.

[matelml]

I was reading the first post of the old thread again to see if there was something I might have missed, a trick, strategy, or just some inspiration and I read this (by Wastedlife):

For example, you have a Burning Wish on the stack, Lion’s Eye Diamond on the stack and a red, four black mana and an untapped City of Brass. In hand is Plunge into Darkness, Brainstorm, and Diminishing Returns. To do this correctly before passing priority you must in response cast Plunge into Darkness, then respond with Brainstorm, respond to that by sacrificing Lion’s Eye Diamond. That gives you the best means of abusing Lion’s Eye Diamond, while the order of Brainstorm or Plunge into Darkness may not matter but Burning Wish must be the first spell since it is a sorcery.

This struck me because I play and have played the deck a lot (like really a lot), and never do this. If in this situation would you do this? I would first cast brainstorm before even playing the Wish, because I might find a Petal+Chant, or just something good, like enough mana and ways to go off while wishing for a Duress and playing it. It also says there is a LED on the stack but I assume that's a typo.

About sideboarding, the cards I board out in some matchups are: 4 Chant, 3 Ponder, 2 Plunge, 2 Chrome Mox, 1 Cabal ritual. Against something like Thresh if I would want to board in 5 cards it would be 2 Plunge, 2 Ponder, 1 Mox.

For reference I run: 1 EtW, 4 Cabal ritual, 3 Ponder, 2 Plunge, 4 Chant.(0 Abayence, X. Swarm, Duress, Confidant, Simian Spirit Guide) And I am trying 1 Tarnished Citadel.

My Sideboard is:
4 Xantid Swarm
4 Dark Confidant
1 ToA
1 EtW
1 IGG
1 Returns
1 Duress
1 Shattering Spree
1 Grapeshot

I used to play -4 Confidant +3 Duress +1 Rough//Tumble and I am not sure which is better yet, I am trying the Confidants side. I found against some 4c Landstill the other day, my Confidants got blown up all the time altough it was Sb, by Deed, EExplosives and Engineered Plague. I am afraid this will happen against many decks, but I will see. The duresses were very good, serving against other combodecks, non-counter hate, or to protect a Chant against FoW.

[yawg07]

Hand One: Mulligan
Hand Two: Keep on the Draw
Hand Three: Mulligan
Hand Four: Keep
Hand Five: keep
Hand Six: Keep
Hand Seven: Keep

I'm not very aggressive when it comes to mulliganing, those were also a lot of shitty hands.

Hmm, it seems that I play a lot like you.
I hate having to mull in a deck with 10 lands

[andrew77]

Hmm, it seems that I play a lot like you.
I hate having to mull in a deck with 10 lands

I have found that the deck mulligans extremly well. I mean it might seem rough to go down to 5/6 cards, but when you are playing so many broken cards you will still be fine. LED is just insane. This is probably the only combo deck that can mull to 4 and win turn one on the play.

[tsabo_tavoc]

This is probably the only combo deck that can mull to 4 and win turn one on the play.

How is that possible? You need 2 mana cards+ 2 LEDs+1 Tutor, right?

[MeddlingMage001]

If you keep a hand with Lotus Petal or Land, Dark Ritual, LED and Infernal Tutor. You can tutor for Diminishing Returns and draw the kill. There are many ways to kill your opp this way.