This post has been modified into an updated primer due to the recent increased popularity and success of this deck. First, let me acknowledge that the original concept for this deck came from Vroman, who developed it as an exceedingly entertaining casual deck. The basic concept was to play a bunch of hand disruption/creature kill guys with comes-into-play abilities. These creatures could then be bounced back to hand with ninjas and replayed. Ultimately, Balthor will come into play and overwhelm your opponent by returning all your dudes from the yard, nuking their hand and their board, then swing for the win. This is a control deck, not an aggro deck, despite packing a large number of creatures. There is no draw engine to speak of, but the deck creates what I like to call "virtual card advantage" by fully utilizing creature cards in the graveyard.
The Rat Pack
Current list:
// Lands
3 [TSP] Swarmyard
17 [UNH] Swamp
// Creatures
4 [LRW] Shriekmaw
4 [JU] Balthor the Defiled
4 [BOK] Skullsnatcher
4 [DS] Chittering Rats
3 [VI] Crypt Rats
3 [ALA] Fleshbag Marauder
2 [EVE] Creakwood Liege
4 [IN] Ravenous Rats
// Spells
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
1 [DS] Sword of Light and Shadow
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [OD] Innocent Blood
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 2 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (1)
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Card explanations:
The deck mostly consists of 3- and 4-ofs with a few exceptions. The cards that are 1- or 2-ofs fill a redundant roll (e.g. Recurring Nightmare and SoLS are the 5th and 6th graveyard recursion cards after the 4-of Balthor). Therefore having these 1- and 2-of cards makes sense even though the deck has no tutors or draw engine.
Mana Base:
Basic Swamps + Swarmyard - 20 lands total seems to be the consensus, although people have played with less. This deck does not run Wastelands because a lot of black mana is essential especially for Balthor and Crypt Rats. Swarmyard is a very strong card that combos with Crypt Rats and can give you an infinite Tarmogoyf blocker, etc.
Discard Spells:
Thoughtseize is my spell of choice, although Cabal Therapy is also commonly played. Thougtseize is a stronger turn 1 play. Cabal Therapy can be flashed back easily and has the potential to hit many cards. It’s a personal preference.
Hand Disruption Creatures:
Ravenous Rats and Chittering Rats - Neither is particularly strong on its own, but when combined with the rest of this deck they become quite threatening.
Graveyard Recursion:
Balthor – Obviously broken. He is the inspiration for the deck and the main graveyard recursion engine. I will always play 4, although some people have dropped to 3.
Recurring Nightmare - Extremely strong card, as it can recur Shriekmaw or Fleshbag Marauder every turn, or even create a hard lock with Chittering Rats (Rats + 6 mana or 2 Rats + 3 mana = Chittering Rat every turn).
Sword of Light and Shadow - Brings creatures back to your hand as well as creating combat advantage. Has great synergy with Crypt Rats since it can bring back dudes you may have lost to Crypt Rat damage, and it also gains you some life back. Basically makes Crypt Rats one-sided.
Creature Removal:
Shriekmaw - Targeted removal that can be recurred with Balthor or Nightmare.
Fleshbag Marauder - Can hit untargetable creatures or pro-black creatures or whatever and can also be recurred.
Crypt Rats - Great mass removal, and is a combo with Swarmyard. Crypt Rats can also be used for direct damage or to force game draws out of unwinnable situations.
Graveyard Disruption:
Skullsnatcher - Gets red and black creatures out of the opponent’s graveyard, and also Ninjas CIP creatures back to your hand.
Other:
Jitte - The best combat card ever printed.
Creakwood Liege - A great token generator. Bitterblossom has also seen some play, but it can be destroyed with EE for 2, and the damage from BB can make a big difference sometimes.
Aether Vial: Absolutely essential to this deck, especially when only running 20 mana sources. No discussion necessary.
Previous Inclusions:
Bone Shredder – Does essentially the same thing as Shriekmaw but for 1 more mana. Was a little bit overkill, and was cut for non-targeted removal.
Throat Slitter – Another removal guy. He was good because he was another way to Ninja guys back to your hand. He could also kill artifact creatures. Ended up being very clunky at its mana cost, and was worse than useless in some situations. Fleshbag Marauder has pretty much replaced him at this point.
Street Wraith – Still a potentially awesome inclusion. He cycles for 0 mana, and can come back with a Balthor activation. 3/4 Swampwalker is pretty nuts against most decks.
Dark Ritual/Chrome Mox – Potentially good mana acceleration. Haven’t seen much play lately because powering out 3cc creatures on turn 1 isn’t that explosive of a play. Slow, steady mana base has proven to be sufficient.
Skull Collector – Another potential recursion engine and combo with Chittering Rats/Aether Vial. Much like Throat Slitter, however, he is worse than useless in some situations.
Stinkweed Imp – Good creature to keep the opponent from attacking. Doesn’t usually kill anything, though. Also dredges, which is kinda good.
Phyrexian Rager – Draws you a card when it CIP. Doesn’t do much.
Sideboard:
Innocent Blood/Darkblast – These are included primarily to stop turn 1 Goblin Lackey, which can be devastating. Still useful later in the game as well.
Engineered Plague – Goblins, Elves, Merfolk. Nuff said.
Pithing Needle – Versatile card, useful against many different decks for many different purposes.
Hymn to Tourach – This deck has a LOT of trouble against Tendrils combo. Hymn to Tourach is really the best chance there is to stay in the game, although even that is not usually enough.
Extirpate – More graveyard hate. Obviously useful against Ichorid or Loam decks, but also useful against Tendrils Combo, whereas Tormod’s Crypt is largely ignored by combo.
Other possible sideboard cards:
Tormod’s Crypt/Relic of Progenitus/Offalsnout/Faerie Macabre – More graveyard hate.
Perish/Nature’s Ruin – Got a problem with green creatures? Here’s your answer.
Thorn of Amethyst/Chalice of the Void – Possible anti-combo cards.
Chains of Mephistopheles – Answer for Enchantress/blue decks.
Matchup Analysis:
Favorable Matchups-
Merfolk: Should be a very favorable matchup unless they have a very strong starting hand. Creature removal (particularly Crypt Rats) should keep them from getting too far. Balthor is completely 1-sided in this matchup too.
Threshold/Blue Tempo Decks: Most of the time you play more creature kill than they play creatures. Counterbalance is almost completely ignorable, since the majority of our creatures cost 3-5 mana.
Random Aggro: The amount of creature kill you have in addition to your equipment and recursion are very hard to keep up with. Enemy Jitte can pose a serious problem.
Landstill: Humility can obviously be a problem, and Elspeth can be tough. Preboard you have some dead cards, but you should have more than enough good stuff in your board to swap out all the creature kill. Crypt Rats and Pithing Needle should be enough to handle Mishra's Factories.
Goblins: First turn Lackey preboard is very hard to beat, but if you survive the early turns you should be able to turn it around. Multiple Ringleaders can provide too much card advantage to keep up with, but as long as they draw only one card a turn, it's quite easy to kill everything before it hurts you. Balthor can be a liability unless you also get a Skullsnatcher going.
Dragon Stompy: Similar to Goblins, except that they run way fewer creatures. Moon effects are worthless. Chalice and Trinisphere are ignorable. Should be an auto-win.
Elves: Crypt Rats is the nuts. Engineered Plague is a backbreaker too. They could always just go off in your face, though.
Even/Unfavorable Matchups:
Aggro Loam: This matchup is fairly even, but can be very tough. They have a lot of relevant mass removal such as Firespout, Devastating Dreams, Seismic Assault, Jund Charm, etc.
Lands: Recurring Factories, Tabernacle, Maze, B-Ring, etc. Can be really tough.
Tendrils Combo: Preboard half your deck is dead. Postboard you get some chance to actually interact. If you’re lucky you can make it tough for them, but for the most part you are going to get blown out.
Affinity: The creatures are too fast, too big and mostly immune to your removal.
Enchantress: The perfect opportunity to curl up and cry.
Ichorid: This one can also be pretty even, depending on how much hate you draw. Skullsnatcher can shine in this matchup. Crypt Rats are huge. Extirpate out of the board can be the MVP if you play it right. I would still call the matchup unfavorable, though.
Thanks to Marit for pretty much raising this deck from the dead by Top 4ing with it in the MTG Salvation tournament. Also thanks to Sisyphos for writing a pretty good matchup analysis that I pretty much just stole for this primer. Finally, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread and to those that have taken this deck to tournaments and done well, especially Sisyphos and pcccp.
Any ideas/suggestions for this primer are greatly appreciated and thanks for reading.
Last edited by B.C.; 07-17-2009 at 01:08 PM. Reason: Primer-fied
What've you tested against so far? What decks do you think it'll hang with?haven’t played a lot of matchups with this deck yet, but I think it can hang in there with most decks. It’s mono black, so of course it will have the usual problems associated with that (no artifact or enchantment removal, etc.). All I can say for sure right now is that it is really fun to play. I know it looks like an incredible pile of jank, but give it a try. You might like it.
Have these cards been tested out: Nezumi Shortfang and Nezumi Graverobber. They don't have synergy with Skull Collector but are still really good. Wouldn't 1-2 Ink-Eyes be a good plan or 1-2 Patron of the Nezumi just as some good late-game bombs? Patron of the Nezumi also lines the graveyard for Balthor. I also think Swarmyard would be a good 1-2 of land. It regenerates rats!
Nice deck to say the least. I have some questions, though:
Is this (no offense) meant to be a competitive deck?
Are many of the creatures of your deck good enough to fight the more efficent creatures of the format?
Does your deck disrupts enough to keep combo from winning?
Has your deck a way of fightning the well-known topdeck-syndrome?
Have you any matchup results for us to see?
Other than that, pretty nifty deck with some sneaky tricks. I love to see balthor the defiled being played! :D
"You're English is terrible and inconsistent."
-DownSyndromeKarl
I refute this statement.
How about Phyrexian Rager? I only suggest it because it's a pet card of mine, and this is one of the few chances I'll get to mention it.
Also, you run TONS of expendable creatures. You should consider Cabal Therapy just for the fact that it would probably be really effective. On that note, Jitte would be really good here too.
Running 6 Fetches in a Mono black deck = suck. Also consider the fact that you have the other lifeloss cards, in Street Wraith and Thoughtseize, which makes this worse. I would probably just pick a good number of swamps and go with it.
info.ninja
For reference, this is an Extended deck that saw some success about a year ago (with a few updates).
// Lands
2 [TSP] Gemstone Caverns
12 [UNH] Swamp
4 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// Creatures
4 [TSP] Nether Traitor
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [TO] Nantuko Shade
3 [8E] Ravenous Rats
4 [DS] Chittering Rats
4 [AP] Phyrexian Rager
2 [SOK] Skull Collector
2 [LRW] Shriekmaw
// Spells
4 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [ON] Smother
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ON] Smother
SB: 4 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [PR] Duress
SB: 2 [MR] Sun Droplet
SB: 4 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
So far I've tested in solo mode (me playing both sides) against Goblins, UGB Threshold, and SI. On MWS I played against a Loam deck, Treefolk, some White Weenie type deck, and a couple others. I would say this deck hung with all of them. It has the worst time with Tendrils Combo, especially since all the creature kill cards are dead. Chalice and Leyline will help.
I haven't really tried any of those yet, but I don't see any reason they shouldn't be tested. Swarmyard is interesting, but I'm hesitant about it because it doesn't tap for black. Plus, you shouldn't really care about your rats getting killed. You run infinity of them.
I mean... sort of. I think it's good enough to take to a small local tournament or something just to have some fun, but I'm not going to play it at Gencon or anything.
I think so. Bone Shredder, Shriekmaw, and a ninja'd Throat Slitter can all kill Tarmogoyfs or any other non-black non-artifact creatures. The rest of your dudes can trade combat damage or chump block waiting for Balthor.
Not really. At least not pre-board. Although depending on how fast the combo is, you may be able to cripple their hand long enough to win.
Not 100% sure of what you're asking, but I will say that I rarely run out of cards in my hand. Ninjas refill your hand enough that you should usually have something to play every turn.
I've been smashing people on MWS, but not a lot of tier decks. Mostly homebrew.
QFT. I am aware of emidln's successful assimilation of the Wraith. Thank god, too. I think he was starting to feel like a letdown.
Sweet tech. Consider it tested.
I can't argue with that. Just haven't found room yet.
That's some good advice. Switching to mono Swamps.
I wouldn't necessarily do all swamps, I'd maybe throw in a playset of Wasteland in there and maybe a couple Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth if you're concerned with balthor activations. Urborg, Tomb of yawmoth is also pretty nice with Street Wraith.Originally Posted by B.C.
Chittering Rats + skull collector + aether vial anyone? There was a Standard deck that gives a good scope in Mirrodin+kamigawa block, it was a cool deck and maybe you should take inspiration from these buildings to create a good thing.
I find a startling lack of Hypnotic Specter. Perhaps in the Chittering Rats slots? Would you consider switching Skullsnatcher for Withering Wretch? Do you see any particlular strength to keeping the rat theme? On the note of rats, Ink-Eyes actually would be fairly vicious in this deck. As for the disruption, with Ink-Eyes in the deck, I would strongly sugest Cabal Therapy because of the ability to flashback a Therapy taking an Ink-Eyes into the yard and then activate Balthor. On the note of Balthor, hs he ever become a liability against zoo/ Sligh/ Goblins?
I'm a big fan of Hyppie, and I like Withering Wretch as well, but they are not really in the vein of this deck concept. The emphasis is on fairly cheap creatures that have disruptive CIP abilities, bounce them back to hand with Ninjas, and replay. After enough development, nuke with Balthor. The "rat theme" is really only a theme because the rats have the good CIP abilities, and the ninjas are rats.
Ink Eyes is a monster, but to me it seems like a win-more card in this deck.
Cabal Therapy is perfect for this deck. I'm working on getting it in there.
I haven't tested against Zoo or Sligh yet. Against Goblins Balthor can certainly be as good (or better) for them than it is for you. Just look at their graveyard. If they have 2 Lackeys and a Warchief and you have 2 Street Wraith, Shriekmaw, Bone Shredder, and 2 Rats, then go ahead and activate him. If they have Warchief, 2 Matrons, Ringleader, and a Siege-Gang Commander, then I would leave that club in the bag.
the deck actually looks like a slightly promising, VERY budget deck. I played aginst thresh, and basicly won game 1 before the player left. I wish people on MWS knew how the cards they play worked. He tried to force a ninjitsu activation, and shortly left thereafter.
It is now the Combat Phase, Beginning Of Combat Step
Media314r8 taps Mutavault
RObert(BR)'s life total is now 11 (-2)
It is now the Combat Phase, Declare Blockers Step
Media314r8 taps Swamp
Media314r8 taps Swarmyard
Media314r8 taps Swamp
Media314r8 plays Throat Slitter from Hand
Media314r8 taps Throat Slitter
RObert(BR) plays Force of Will from Hand
Media314r8 puts Mutavault to Hand from Play
RObert(BR) puts Daze to RFG from Hand
RObert(BR)'s life total is now 13 (+2)
<Media314r8> you'll need a stifle
RObert(BR) puts Force of Will to Graveyard from Play
<Media314r8> its an activated abilituy
<RObert(BR)> nono
<Media314r8> then this is happening
<RObert(BR)> read
<Media314r8> read what?
<System> Player Lost
This was the list I played:
RATS!
// Lands
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 [TSP] Swarmyard
12 [LRW] Swamp (2)
2 [MOR] Mutavault
// Creatures
4 [P2] Ravenous Rats
4 [BOK] Throat Slitter
4 [CHK] Nezumi Cutthroat
3 [CHK] Nezumi Shortfang
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [MOR] Moonglove Changeling
1 [BOK] Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
4 [DS] Chittering Rats
3 [7E] Crypt Rats
// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
needles could probably be something else. Mutavult + ninjitsu + swarmyard FTW! Crypt rats + swarmyard is pretty decent too.
How about a more controllish shell and a Ratcatcher or is he simply way too expensive? It might be a good way to tutor answers like Nameless Inversion. But I don't know.
"You're English is terrible and inconsistent."
-DownSyndromeKarl
Very true. This deck is as cheap as it gets. My updated list:
20 Swamp
= 20 land
4 Balthor the Defiled
4 Chittering Rats
3 Ravenous Rats
4 Skullsnatcher
3 Throat Slitter
4 Shriekmaw
3 Bone Shredder
4 Street Wraith
3 Phyrexian Rager
= 32 creatures
4 Aether Vial
4 Cabal Therapy
= 8 spells
4 Pithing Needle
4 Extirpate
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
= 15 sideboard
Aether Vial and Phyrexian Rager have tested very well so far. Cabal Therapy isn't as explosive of a turn 1 as Thoughtseize, but it gets better as the game goes on.
well, I beat UGr thresh and Stifle-naught and an odd thran dynamo deck, with a loss to mono B. (only 1 game played)
I hate MWS: apparently people can't grasp the fact that combat damage uses the stack. (I realize that 6th ed only came out like 7 years ago...) I put combat damage on against stifle naught, THEN activated rats for 1 (would be lethal with the damage on the stack) to see if he'd stifle it. (in which case I would then activate it again and again if necessary) He let it resolve and some of the guys that had assigned damage dies, so he claimed he didn't take any damage from them. (facepalm.jpg)
EDIT: beat an agro-loam deck for the match, after a looong game 3 (tied) and g4 won by RATS!
That's exactly what I'll say if I ever lose against this deck. "RATS!" lol.RATS!
Pithing Needle, Jittes and Extirpate aren't cheap...Originally Posted by B.C.
Some of my latest impressions of the deck:
Swarmyard is a lot better than I thought it would be. Being able to regenerate your little dorks to block for infinity turns is tech.
Crypt Rats are hot. Thanks Media314r8. They are especially hot with Swarmyard. One of the best 2 card combos ever in my opinion. They replace Bone Shredder.
I'm putting fetchlands back into my build. I find myself manaflooded too much since I went to all Swamps. Fetchlands take an extra land out of your deck, making it more probable that you will draw business later in the game. I don't worry as much about the life loss anymore since I replaced Thoughtseize with Cabal Therapy. They're back in.
This deck is very competitive. The only game I've been blown out was against Lands! Extirpate against their LftL would help immensely, although I still think it would be a weak matchup.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)