Beseech the Queen looks awful, I won't play it.
As for the SB, why is everyone cutting the Infernal Contract? It's one of my most wished for cards. I currently have six sideboard slots, I may cut the Thoughtseize or Tranquility for the 3rd blast. More than likely the Tranquility, I haven't wished for it in ages. Honestly, I'm starting to wonder why it's in the board. We do win before enchantress after all.
Also, Cabal Therapy? C'mon people, that's an awful idea. It's not better than 'Seize here. Even with Shusher. We don't play even close to the amount of creatures you need for Therapy. Why hardcast SSG, investing 4 mana into a discard spell.
I'm personally not a fan of the Draw 4's in my meta because people can too easily spike-burn if I can't go off immediately with the combo. I probably see a lot more fireblasts out of nowhere than most would... A lot more 'jank' and less Threshold in general. I don't play against Nightmare and Co. all the time =P I run into a few people who play Thresh... but just as many that run Burn. If I played in a tournament outside of my zone, then yes. I'd probably swap Tranq/Cleanfall for a Draw 4.Originally Posted by Bryant C.
Yeah, I haven't used Tranquility/Cleanfall in a long time... with Shusher dancing around the big enchantment.
As for Therapy... I can usually predict what's coming... I wasn't intending to use the Flashback... only the effect that it forces them to pitch all cards of the name as an advantage over Thoughtseize... and usually for Orim's Chant if I guess it. Thoughtseize does not get rid of multiple Orim's Chants...
The difference between Thought Seize and Cabal Therapy is negligible, both of them deal with the card(s) preventing TES from going off, but Cabal Therapy can generate card advantage. Being able to discard multiple Counterspells, Spell Snares and Stifles is important, because it turns Burning Wish -> Discard from being mana inefficient disruption into bait. Force of Will is now +1 card advantage, Counterspell is now UUUU, Spellsnare is now -U mana for them and +B mana for you and Stifle is no longer a threat.
I believe Cabal Therapy > Thought Seize, and if you look at the original Burning Long, it used Cabal Therapy in its SB. Flashback is just the icing on the cake, turning SSGs, Tinder Walls, Goblin Tokens and Dark Confidants into disruption or setting up the Ill Gotten Gains chain when Force of Will is in the discard pile. It's not something you specifically aim for, but it'll accidentally save your ass.
Cabal Therapy is certainly more skill intensive than Thought Seize, but it's definitely an improvement to the control match up.
Edit: Just because Draw 4's are bad against Slight isn't a reason to cut them from the SB, if your life total is in the red zone, just wish for something else. Tranquility/Cleanfall has always sucked, I never understood why people cut Hull Breach for it in the first place.
Or you could wiff and they'll still have 2-3 pieces of disruption.
Sure, but let's be honest, Thought Seize isn't fast enough to deal with Counterbalance, Meddling Mage and Gaddok Teeg, which leaves Force of Will, Counterspell and Stifle as its main targets. If the opponent has multiple and/or differentiated counters, then Thought Seize would have been just as worthless as Cabal Therapy, because now your only choice is Orim's Chant(s). Worst case scenario, you'll miss Force of Will for Counterspell or vice versa, but in those instances Burning Wish should have tutored for a Draw 4 instead.
It's about proper hand reading, if you can't put the opponent on Force of Will, Counterspell, Spellsnare or Stifle based on the number of cards in hand, mana untapped etc. then either a threat or Thought Seize are going to be superior choices. But just the threat of Cabal Therapy causes people to counter Burning Wish, Thought Seize doesn't have the same effect.
You can also just SB both of them if your uncomfortable with your Cabal Therapy skills.
Remember, when Burning Long was around, Thoughtseize didn't exist. Cabal Therapy is generally worse than seize because no one can hand read THAT well. Let's say, for instance, an opponent has 1 Island untapped. Snare or Stifle? Or 2 Islands. Counterspell? FoW? You say it's all about hand reading, and yeah, that helps. But not enough to make this better than a definite hit.
It was used for double Force of Will and Mana Drain scenarios, if people wanted guaranteed discard, then -1 MD Duress for + 1 MD Xantid Swarm would have been the standard.
But like I said, just run both. Thoughtseize is still useful if the deck uses Chrome Mox to wish for it before the opponent hits UU for Counterbalance, and Cabal Therapy is still useful if the deck uses it as a pseudo Orim's Chant.
Hitting multiple spells, turning superflous resources into disruption and protecting the IGG chain is worth 1 SB slot.
When I play this deck, I often... dance around the counterspells. It's Stifle, Abeyance, and Orim's Chant that really worry me. I see no shortage of the first maindecked... due to Stiflenought finding more and more play... Your own Orim's Chant is a litmus test, but... a spell to protect your litmus test can be helpful in certain matchups... and by the time you can Burning Wish for Therapy, you're at a stage of a game where your opponent is likely to be holding a suckerpunch... or several. Of course, everyone has their own playstyle... and personal meta to cope with.
New Shadowmoor common!
Manamorphose
Instant
Add 2 mana of any combination of colors to your mana pool.
Draw a card.
Wow, this card seems ... well, really good!
It's good in Belcher for certain, but I don't know whether or not it's betters than Simian Spirit Guide here. Storm, Draw and Mana Fixing all bare testing tho', it's bound to find a niche some where.New Shadowmoor common!
Manamorphose
Instant
Add 2 mana of any combination of colors to your mana pool.
Draw a card.
Wow, this card seems ... well, really good!
Yeah it should be tested.
Actually yeah in Belcher it is auto-include and replaces Wild Cantor. It has to be.
But in TES we have a few slots to move around ...
Draw4s - NO
Ponder - Maybe
Cabal Rit - Maybe
I'd test em in place of either of those two first.
I don't think Ponder should be cut, it's too essential as a turn one set up spell. However, I could be mistaken, I'm not a TESman.
I've got a question for people more familiar with the deck than I am.
In the games I've played, I've sometimes wished that a Brainstorm be a Ponder, purely for the shuffling effect. Usually, Brainstorm's way better, but we have almost no ways to shuffle the deck, so often I'm stuck placing my hopes on a Brainstorm, then drawing the two dead cards I put back over the next turns. Am I just playing wrong by keeping hands I shouldn't, or should the 4/2 split be rethought?
Using Manamorphosis to support Draw 4s could be huge, with Dark Ritual and Cabal Ritual that's a potential 12 BB(B) sources. Just being a Right of Flame compatible mana fixer has serious implications, while BB supports Draw 4s, UU supports Diminishing Returns as well.
If this card opens the door to double colored threats ...
Edit: I run 4 Brainstorm and 4 Ponder since the Draw 4s and Cabal Rituals are inconsistent, but there are going to be times when Brainstorm is going to hit 3 bricks and lose the game. Just be certain to use Ponder and Infernal Tutor to shuffle the deck when possible.
5-0-1 Tourney Report
15 people, 4 rounds, TES beatdown w00t
The List:
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Chrome Mox
4x Lotus Petal
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Rite of Flame
4x Dark Ritual
2x Cabal Ritual
4x Brainstorm
2x Ponder
2x Infernal Contract
4x Infernal Tutor
4x Burning Wish
4x Orim's Chant
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Tarnished Citadel
1x Undiscovered Paradise
4x Gemstone Mine
4x City of Brass
The Sideboard:
4x Pyroblast
2x Bound/Determined
1x Pyroclasm
1x Shattering Spree
1x Hull breach
1x Infernal Contract
1x Duress
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Diminishing Returns
How it went down:
ROUND 1
Opponent: Dragon Stompy
Game 1:
Well my opening hand was alright, can't quite remember it, but LED and 2 Petals with a tutor is good.
But, of course, he won the die roll and threw down a mountain and a Chalice for 0 :(
Ouch, my balls.
Okay okay, I drop City and play Brainstorm, looking for some other fast mana. I see some but I can't get free mana down this turn.
Oh well, I put my two back and pass. He draws and lays City of Traitors and Blood Moon.
DAMN. No more black mana unless I can destroy Chalice.
Well I knew I had no B.Wish in the top two, so I had to wait it out.
Unfortunately, Gathans and Dragon burnt me to a crisp before I could get the wish, and OF COURSE, it was the next card.
Game 2: No SB change
I know he brings in Pyroclasms and maybe Pyrokinesis, but goblins can still work because he has no draw engine.
My opening grip wasn't terrible ...
LED
Empty the Warrens
Dark Ritual
Lotus Petal
SSG
Rite of Flame
City of Brass
Well, City to D.Rit, SSG to RoF, Petal, LED, Warrens and burn for 1. 10 Guys, here we go.
He sighs and says, "No clasm" Takes his turn and Chalices at 0
I draw nothing relevant and swing for ten.
He draws again and almost scoops, but plays SSG to block with.
Same turn for me, but he blocks one. He is at 1 now, and doesn't draw an answer. Game three.
Game 3: No SB Change
Well, my opening grip was a first turn 6 storm Diminishing Returns with BBU floating, so I kept it.
He goes first ... NO 3Sphere or Chalice YES!!! Just Blood Moon which is okay because I need to RoF anyhow.
Well I do what I said, D.Returns as 6th spell and remove my ten. The FIRST THREE cards I see are LED, Petal, Infernal ... done and done, folks.
ROUND 2
Opponent: U/W Standstill Variant
Game 1:
First turn win hand.
Opening hand was something like ...
LED
Petal
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Infernal Contract
Chrome Mox
Gemstone Mine
Sure, why not?
At this point I don't know what he's playing, but I start up anyhow, because I won the die roll and my hand is dumb.
Gem Mine, Ritual, Contract ... Draw Infernal Tutor, Brainstorm, Lotus Petal, LED
Wow.
Petal to Ritual, Petal, Chrome imprinting Brainstorm, LED, LED, Infernal and sac LEDs and locate Tendrils. Game.
Between the games I catch a glimpse of what looked like a standstill and an StP and I get suspicious, so the Pyros can come in.
Game 2: SB - Out: 2x Ponder, 2x Cabal Ritual - In: 4x Pyroblast
Wow, total crap hand. Mulligan into a very promising hand that I can't quite remember.
He lays and Island and passes. I was playing against BLUE and what I did last game happened? Geez lol
Ah well, I do my thing on my turn with petals, rituals, a contract, and rounding out with and 8th Spell Diminishing Returns with BBB floating ...
... it resolves WOOOO!!!
Remove my ten and draw 7. Wow. Again, wow.
Gemstone Mine
Petal
Orim's Chant
LED
Dark Ritual
Infernal Tutor
City of Brass
Petal to Chant. FoWs it ... I go for the tutor and it resolves for the game :D
Wow, the guy had one collective turn between the two games, I actually felt bad, but that's what this deck can do.
ROUND 3
Opponent: B/G Rock
Game 1:
Can't remember too much about this game, but my opening hand had it all, land mana and tutors.
He opens with Thoughtseize on my LED. Ugh okay, no tutoring just yet.
I don't do much on my next turn and rips duress and thoughtseize at me. Bye tutors.
He is sitting with Volrath's Stronghold and a Bayou, and I'm not seeing goyfs or a second black for him to sinkhole/hymn me, so I'm lucky here.
Draw an Infernal Contract and play it, draw good cards and proceed to go off and I miscount ... well sort of.
For some reason, I thought he played 2x Duress and 1x Thoughtseize ... nope haha, I had enough to tendrils him for 16, but I thought him to be at 18.
OH WELL, I fetch up LED, LED, Infernal with my Ill-counted Ill-Gotten Gains and prepare to win next turn.
He duresses Tutor of course ... ugh ... I rip Burning Wish like a topdecking champ and win.
Game 2: No SB Change
Wow okay, my opening hand say I win the game. Oh look! Duress! haha oh well.
I draw a decent card, but still not a game win one. Goes to him and then he hymns me. Ouch I lose 2 mana spells (LED and RoF)
I draw another Infernal to replace my duressed one, but still am at nothingsville.
He follows up with ANOTHER Hymn ... fuck, lol Well, I'm left with a stripped hand, but still have a gem or two :D
I draw Infernal Contract, time to come back from discard hell! I draw LED, Petal, Chrome, and Burning Wish o_0
Haha, I go and do my thing and B.Wish for IGG, do that thing and he responds to IGG with "Extirpate infernal tutor!"
I look up at him with terror and he tosses an Engineered Plague and a Deed onto my side of the table and laughs, we shake hands and we're done.
ROUND 4
Opponent: W/g Weenie
Yeah I know, a bye for me, but we're both friends and the chinese food just arrived, so we draw.
No biggie :D
Okay! TOP FOUR!!!
ROUND 1
Opponent: Mono Red Sligh
Game 1:
He drops Lavamancer and I see 12 gobs in my hand.
I draw a card and now see 14 gobs in my hand. I do it.
He doesn't wipe the board I win efficiently.
Game 2: No SB Change
I mull to 6, okay good hand I'll keep.
I know he boarded in REBs to stop D.Returns, he's done it to me before haha, so I keep on my toes.
Luckily my hand is pretty good and I don't need it.
He played some guys and I wait until I'm comfortable to go off, turn 3 is perfect.
Now its the finals, my opponent and I have things we want in the shop and if we split, both of us are happy.
SO, we do that, but play games anyhow.
Opponent: Ichorid/Dredge
Game 1:
He does stuff on the first turn and prepares for the win on turn two.
I have the nuts hand and blow him out turn one.
Game 2: SB out 2x Ponder 2x C.Rit - SB in 4x Pyroblast
He goes nuts and blows me out on turn one, ugh I had Pyro, but no SSG.
Game 3: No SB Change
I hold position and play Tarnished Citadel and pass.
He LED Breakthroughs and I gladly take my 3 to Pyroblast it, his graveyard position is STILL nuts though.
I draw LED #2 and lay my second land to play the burning wish and I win! :D
TAKE THAT FUCKING UNDISCOVERED PARADISE!!!!!!
Last edited by yawg07; 04-07-2008 at 10:21 PM.
How did you know that you had to board in Pyroblast if you won first turn?
BB
Well I saw him shuffling up and caught a glimpse of a standstill and what looked like a swords to plowshares
Sorry, I guess I forgot to mention that, I haven't really written a report before.
hmmm,
But anyway nice result. Pity you didn't had th change to test Bound/Determined. I always found it a weak slot, but were to lazy to test it myself.
Is Tarnished Citadel a replacement, due to money are availibility or is it serious suggestion. The 3 damage is quite alot, but bouncing a land isn't that swell either. Maybe the 1/1 split works.
BB
I've been using 2 Tarnished Citadels for awhile, and I don't think I've lost a game to the damage ever, 2 Undiscovered Paradise blows.
Benie is catching me up in my dramatic additions lol it was how I felt at the time.
I just wanted to get the point across that you can beat an opponent without knowing what they are playing.
And money issues? lol Citadel is like .25 and Paradise is like $2 at most, besides ...
But yeah i like the 1/1 split. Undiscovered Paradise is so bad it makes me cry.
But sometimes I like not taking a bolt to get a mana, so I keep one in.
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