I definitely agree with your first and third points (i.e. all card bannings are in a part a response to a public relations disaster and that Wizards would be taking a considerable risk to unban such a problematic card in the past). They'll also be looking a Legacy, at least in part, through the Flash filter -- so, I think the odds of ever playing with Skullclamp in Legacy anytime soon is pretty doubtful.Originally Posted by Machinus
Regarding its power, I've played with it and against it and its quite a stupid card--for its cost and affect in any game where it's on the board, I'm happy to see it on the Banned List.
Whether or not it would be any good is what it comes down to, for me. It would certainly been seen in Gobs and Affinity and I have no doubt someone would find some degenerate way to turn it into a truly abusive combo engine; but that obviously remains to be seen.
That's not the way to look at it. Every powerful card has foils--like the Flash combo could be disrupted a million and half ways, but that doesn't mean it wasn't busted beyond belief. (Not necessarily comparing Flash to 'clamp here, but the point remains that the existence of answers doesn't mean things won't get out of control.)If you expect Clamp, put in cards to beat Clamp, and continue to play. There are tons of cards that could deal with it that could fit in any deck. Engineered Explosives, Powder Keg, Pithing Needle, and probably more already thought of or mentioned.
I doubt Trinket Mage -> Skullcamp and sacrificing Cloud of Faeries is going to be worth Faerie Stompy's time, but the thought of people splashing blue just for Trinket Mage -> Skullcamp in aggro is kind of neat. I could see Affownity abusing the shit out of that actually.
Absolutely in Survival, and probably in Goyf Sligh, Faerie Stompy, Angel Stompy (that deck might even be played again) and the rest of the decks that run creatures.
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Believe it or not, in a format with a card pool mush bigger than Onslaught-Mirrodin Standard, not every deck running creatures benefits from running Clamp. Unless your guys can die at your whim, the strategy of the deck doesn't fundamentally change. Thus, a deck's match-ups don't fundamentally change. You've traded a bit of tempo for a bit of potential card advantage, but that's all.
And are people actually worried about Affinity being halfway viable? Why would that be a bad thing? The deck is easy to hate out, why not give it something positive?
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Short Answer: Wizards hates legacy
Agree. In its golden era, Affinity was able to win many games as soon as turn three with relatively ease, and Skullclamp wouldn't change it. There's lots of Legacy decks capable of win as quick or even faster. The format's cardpool and gauntlet of answers is much deeper than it was back before Clamp's banning. And I dare to say that the ability to recover from Deeds would make life a little less unfair to Legacy's Affinity.
But that's a worthy cause per se. The format's supposed to allow us to play (almost) all cards ever released, and the shorter the ban list - respected the limits of safety, for sure -, the better for the game. There's no benefits in a long list of banned cards except keeping the game safe from abuses. The question is: is Skullclamp really this abusive monster in Legacy? If it was able to change the format without warp it completely, I think it would be ok. Legacy could bring it into line.
I advocate a gradual "quarantine" legality period for non-Power cards banned before Legacy's establishment. Sure, not soon before greater Legacy events, as happened with GP:Flash. The real world would be a much better laboratory than the R&D offices or Internet foruns.
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Ha... I just popped a boner thinking about clamping Keldon Mauradors in Goyf Sligh.
I did that in a Cube draft the other week. The clamping a Marauders bit, not the boner. Although I came close when I got passed Flametongue Kavu and Fire Imp.
Whew. At least I'm not the only one.
Threads like these are why Land Tax is still banned.
I think Land Tax should be the new Godwin's Law.
I think the question "are altered-art cards legal in tournaments?" should be the new Godwin's Law.
Oh, and in order to fulfil Godwin's Law obligations, Skullclamp = a Nazi.
QFT, 20 Lesbian Points, and you win every thread ever.
Skullclamp would actually be the dumbest. Sure, combo beats it, but then you end up with a format that's combo versus aggro versus aggro-control because no blue deck (say, Threshold or Landstill) can reliably beat a resolved Skullclamp. Reason being? Now the creature decks can offset the card advantage of the board sweepers from Landstill, and Threshold doesn't actually have any card drawing - so while they're hoping to clock you while making their one-for-one trades you can just reload potentially relevant cards faster than they can.
I think that Skullclamp cuts off too much design space to be warranted. For that matter, so does combo that can win as quickly as Legacy combo can.
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But seriously. Would clamp "ruin" the format? I really cant see it having a huge effect. But maybe I am wrong, I dont see how goblins would make room for it honestly. Aggro needs to win fast, not try to win and draw cards if you kill my creature... eh.
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I've never played with or against clamp, so i wouldn't know about it, but i think you've got the problem here : aggro needs to win fast, otherwise it will get nailed by control's sweepers and CA power.
With clamp, the late game is not in control's favor anymore as aggro would benefit from a very strong CA engine. This is the exact same reason why Ringleader is what made Goblins so strong for so long. Only difference being that clamp is reusable, costs less, and doesn't have any color requirements, thus potentially going into any deck.
Now, in fact i don't know if clamp would be strong enough for this to work (as i said, never played the card), but the general reasoning is true. Maybe it could come off the list. Anyway, it's certainly not that safe and should be well thought out.
Is this Play even good, assuming this is early game?
How about I StP your Marauder in responce? That would be a semi-time walk on my part. is it not?
I am not sure if clamp is safe or not, but I tried it in every creature decks in 1.5, and I couldn't do much of anything too broken. Most creature deck cannot afford the tempo loss it gives. Sure, it make control matchup better, but it should not be put in every deck ever like some people claims.
She said, "You're broken."
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This argument is semi-reminiscent of the old Standard-era Umezawa Jitte argument. My ears are still bleeding from that one, so this I'll not comment too much on this argument.
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