Hehe, I'm sorry. Didn't meant to offend you or something, I just looked at it and lol'd.
Well, I didn't knew the prices( got mine Paradises a long time ago) but maybe you didn't own the complete deck, when you went to the tournament and couldn't find a Paradise or something.
Going to two Citadels seems to much. Especially if your build contains 2 Infernal Contract/Cruel Bargain. Today I played a killed a guy, because I could counter his Infernal Tutor when he was down to 5 due to Infernal Contract and had 5 mana in pool. And I played Solidarity so I didn't lay beats on him.
BB
Has anyone tested with Shusher? He's incredible. He may be what turns this deck around. He single handily crushed the Threshold testing. Uncounterable Orim's Chant generally means game over.
As for the manabase, maybe I'll give 1/1 another shot.
Where did you fit him in? Was he exclusively used maindeck, or used primarily as SB surprise after opponent sides out all of his spot removal?
Yeah, he's been pretty amazing, control has to keep in all of its spot and mass removal just to be able to deal with his uncounterable ass. BEB is going to be insanely popular in Threshold and Landstill boards very soon, IMO.
Originally Posted by wastedlife
He was in the sideboard along with blasts.
I haven't played TES for about a half year, but I have a question about the Chant/Swarm etc MD slot and would be pleased if someone could answer it to me... my meta is nearly free of FoW, Stifle, Daze, CounterTop etc, so my question is if those 4 slots for chant are realy needed? I mean there are only 2 guys playing Counters (1 Landstill, 1 Faerie Stompy) so I doubt the Swarm would be much useful because the main part of my meta is Gobbs, Dragon Stompy, Pikula, Belcher, Ravager and some kiddies playing random Aggro.dec. Would you still advocate the 4 Chants (cause they can be also used to "timewalk" an opp in the early turns) or run something else like more Ponder/Cabal Ritual for more constant draws instead?
I also played Bob a while ago and it performed quite well, cause its never a dead card and simply steamrolls the opp with CA if unanswered. The main prob with him is that he gets killed the turn before he gets relevant, so often its a 2 for 1 trade for them (especially against gobbs)
So what do you think, Bob, Chant or something else?
I'd consider either Thought Seize or Tinder Wall in that case, but I'd rather just use Belcher or SI in that meta. TES is built to deal with aggro-control and control, where Belcher or SI are built to straight up goldfish, and if no one is going to put up a fight, you may as well treat them as if they aren't even there.
You can play discard, Tinder wall or some sort of bounce to help vs aggro.
But anyway, I'd play the Chants anyway cause they're good in the 3 worst matchups of your meta: the 2 FoW decks and Belcher. You really don't need help vs aggro.
Otherwise you could play more draw4s and help the landstill and discard matchups.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Yeah, Shusher may make me play this deck again. Against slowish Thresh builds, you can generally sit on your ass until turn 6 or 7, drop Shusher, and combo out through any amount of disruption.
Chrome Mox. I hardly ever imprint something on it and in multiples they suck.
Is it nessary, at all?
Discuss.
I've picked up the deck a few months ago and I'm having some difficulties.
First of all red blasts/ pyro: In my experience a good control player will wait for a key searching spell (burning wish, infernal tutor, ill-gotten-gains etc) to counter. Mostly in said case you don't or more correctly can't have a hand left. Thus making the blasts useless. I know most control players try to keep you off 4 mana, and thos you can easily bait. But if they use the above strategy, blasts are useless and I'm having a lot (or at least too many) of those.
Thoughtseize: Never wished for it once. I understand the potential, but in my experience you burning wish for everything but a thoughtseize. I have the impression of wasting a good spell on something very suboptimal (i.e. a potential solution instead of a certain one). Can anybody give me a standard situation where thoughtseize is useful?
My current sideboard:
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Cruel Bargain
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Cleanfall
SB:1 Pyroclasm
SB:3 Shattering Spree
SB:1 Red Elemental Blast
SB:3 Xantid swarm
SB:1 Pyroblast
The reason for 3 shattering spree btw is because there is an abundance of artifact hatred in my meta.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch.
How long have you been playing the deck?
I used to hate Chrome Mox to death, as well. But, I'm telling you that yes they are absolutely necessary.
Diminishing Returns is far less effective without them, they help empty the hand for Infernal,
they grant you an extra blue mana a lot, also they just simply add to storm.
Don't play em if you don't like em, no one is forcing you to, but your deck is less effective without them.
Ever since I wrote that last report, I was in two more tourneys and split top in both of those as well. (8 man, and 17 man ones)
One on Wednesday was a split with a member here at the source, and on Friday it was a split in my favor with my rifter playing friend.
Several of those victories could NOT have been achieved without Chrome.
Over a year.
First you need to Imprint a Brainstorm or a Ponder, to get blue mana.
This means you need THREE sources of mana to pull a Returns.
Yes, however, adding to the storm is what they do the most. And this is why i am complaining.
Prove it.
For them adding storm or mana?
I think it would actually be up to you to prove a build is more effective without chrome moxes as the deck has performed at a high level with moxes included.
I would be interested in seeing if you have an idea in mind for subbing them out or are just stating they seem subpar.
Assuming you are correct and they are decent at providing storm and not much else, what would you propose to take its slot? Even if it is just providing free storm it is probably the best free storm provider available right now.
Then I am pretty surprised you don't see their importance by now.
I've won many games off the back of Chrome w/blue, a land, a petal/land, ritual, Returns w/Black floating (even better if you've got an LED)
Maybe your plays and luck are just different than mine. I find they are mana quite a bit.
One of the biggies is when you have a chrome in your hand and you go land, rit, draw4.
Now you have things to play with and another black/blue in your hand to cast them.
I'm not sure how to answer this, I just know that running less than 4 or none, I fail to have mana numbers a lot.
I've won far more games and tournaments with the full complement of Chromes.
Both, actually.
Usually both at once. Chrome Mox is an excellent card.
Just stick a spare cantrip/tutor on there. God knows you'll draw duplicates of things and not need em.
Chrome Mox is by far the worst card in the deck, so I am not surprised someone asks. I have to agree Chrome Mox is necessary in the deck, but because it's so bad in doubles I advise to play 3. I hope a better card is printed for TES, but I doubt it would be an initial manasource which can replace the Mox. If it's important: I have played with TES a little more than a year, which is almost as long as it's known and yes, I have achieved results with it. I played with 4 Moxes most of the time, but cut 1. My configuration is: 3 Mox, 3 SSG, 2 Cabal Ritual, 4 City, 4 Mine, 1 Paradise, 1 Tarnished Citadel, 1 Orchard.
I know that's 1 more land than usual, it's the way I like it. I trade a little bit of speed of which I still have enough, for less mulligans and some more consistency. I am also playing 4 Ponder at the moment, which is nice with 11 land, with the same arguments.
how many brainstorms do you run atm? 4 also?
That should not have to be asked, Brainstorm is too good to consider less than 4. I understand some people are not always happy with it because you only have a few shuffle effects, but that is because Brainstorm is a difficult card in this deck. Playing it too early can often cost you the game. You should definitely not always play brainstorm when you have the possibillity. When to Brainstorm and when not to is learned in time. The most important factor is the strength of your hand and if you are likely to be able to win with the next 3 cards. This certainly isn't always an easy decision.
Consider how quickly you have to go off when you consider Chrome Mox. The largest determinant is the speed you are forced to go off. It's an Ichorid and Chalice Paradise out here... and I have to imprint my cantrips fairly often in an attempt to go off immediately on Slithermuse / D. Returns. In a different meta that may have less ultra-quick wins and disruption, you may have better luck. However, yes, it is a horrible card to draw into. Something else to consider is how many win conditions you run. The fewer you run, the more you need Chrome Mox since you become more and more reliant on the tutors... Infernal in particular, and Chrome Mox... beyond being a mana source, allows you to create Hellbent, especially post Brainstorm. In relation to the Brainstorm comment, that is often the usage many players miss... When you don't have a LED, it often lets you utilize your Infernal without one.
Let's not forget how good Brainstorm is when you Diminishing Returns into nothing. It happens.
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