[OLD] UGw Threshold

[Jaiminho]

Enchantress will be there too keep in mind and as far as my testing has been counterbalance is "UU: Do nothing" against that deck, and when it actually is hurting him he tends to remove it via O-ring.

Post SB, you will have enough 3cc cards to support CB, in case you have grips in the sideboard. It should be enough to stop some annoying things, so don't just go countering his ass to see a Replenish being played when you have nothing to stop it. I'd also recommend looking at Trygon Predator.

[raharu]

On a tangent, has anyone considered Meditate for the draw spell slot? Threshold can gum up the red zone effectively enough to stop most creature-based threats, every last counterspell in the deck is free, and the removal is all one mana (as the format mandates), so it would seem that Meditate would be incredibly effetive in helping Threshold in both long wars of attrition and would assist in keeping the hand full durring the midgame. Has anyone else considered it? What are the arguments against it?

[Internet Hate Machine]

What are the arguments against it?

Skipping a turn is really, really bad?

[Jak]

Try Ancestral Visions if you want a draw spell.

[chokin]

Skipping a turn is horrible. And it gives them an extra opportunity to attack. Plus it costs 3, leaving little mana for STP and Spell Snare.

Too little room to abuse or even use it.

Edit: Fact or Fiction was played in the 5c build. Maybe use that. Yeah, costs 4, but it doesn't give the opponent a free turn. It still makes STP/Snare practically unplayable on the same turn though.

[undone]

Accumulated knowlage and predict together? Decent draw but takes up slots.

[Citrus-God]

Accumulated knowlage and predict together? Decent draw but takes up slots.

That happened in one of the older lists.... It made opening hands bad and playing them together was rather clunky. Seriously, just play with Predicts and side in Fact or Fictions from the board.

[Internet Hate Machine]

That happened in one of the older lists.... It made opening hands bad and playing them together was rather clunky. Seriously, just play with Predicts and side in Fact or Fictions from the board.

The main question on my mind is, what does FoF come in against that it would be a better choice than having another card in that slot? Boarding in draw seems...odd, at least to me.

[Citrus-God]

The main question on my mind is, what does FoF come in against that it would be a better choice than having another card in that slot? Boarding in draw seems...odd, at least to me.

Fact or Fiction can come in against control decks, Threshold, Fish, The Rock, Survival, and other match-ups as well.

Personally, I find Fact or Fiction to be better than Armageddon. Then again, I really did like Armageddon against Survival in testing.

[Adan]

Though I played Fact or Fiction myself by netdecking the Hatfield's list without thinking about it, I found it rather clunky after all.

ObFreeley told me that they included Fact or Fiction against Landstill. I guess because it's a 4-mana-card which can generate CA. The CC4 slot is - against UWb Landstill - quite important.

That should have been the only reason, ObFreeley is also suggesting to run a 2nd Portent instead of Fact or Fiction. This also sounds more plausible, having 10 "Dig-3"-cantrips will always help you to maintain a your manabase.

The only thing I don't like about the 5color Thresh is that it has got no other way to generate CA except with Counterbalance.

5color Threshold has got the "best-of" selection of the spells of each color you definitley want to play:

Black: Thoughtseize, Sb Extirpate(/Jailer?)

White: StoPs and Mystic Enforcer

Red: SB Pyroclasm, Blasts, Ancient Grudge

But actually you can run any sideboard configuration you want, you will always have cards that help you in a specific meta.

[hypeiv]

I threw together a UGw countertop deck together last night with the cards I had and playtested it a little against some of my aggro decks. My list looked like this:

2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath (I don't own polluted delta )

2 Mystic Enforcer
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear (don't own goyf )

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Daze
4 Predict
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top

observations:

Goyf is obviously better than werebear (i'm sure everyone knew that a year ago)... I had to run more predicts than I should to force threshold sooner in many cases were I could have easily had 3/4 Goyf with only 3 cards in my yard. And I don't think I ever used the bears tap for mana ability.

O-ring is nice for 3cc countertop... but that might have just been the match up dependent.

I often found myself with a bunch of useless daze's in my hand late game which is why i took one out and put an extra predict in... but late game you should have countertop going.

I am very impressed with how consistent this deck is and might have to look into buying some goyfs once they rotate out of type 2 in october.

[undone]

Cut an O ring for a daze (4 is needed) and heath is better then delta it gets the basic forest and it gets tundra and gets trop.

If you want amazing 3 drops I would do something I did in all versions of thresh im playing, drop 1, 1 drop removal for a threads of disloyalty, it gets FoW fodder, steals dreadnaught steals goyf steals bob, exct

[hypeiv]

Cut an O ring for a daze (4 is needed) and heath is better then delta it gets the basic forest and it gets tundra and gets trop.

If you want amazing 3 drops I would do something I did in all versions of thresh im playing, drop 1, 1 drop removal for a threads of disloyalty, it gets FoW fodder, steals dreadnaught steals goyf steals bob, exct

I cut an O-ring for a daze and glad I did since I am starting to get the flow of the deck a bit better today. Especially since I am not running goyf, getting threshold is very very important so even if the daze is pointless (they can just pay the mana) it helps me get thresh... and I can always pitch it to a FoW.

Also O-ring has been a dead card most of the time only useful to win a turn earlier by taking out one of their blockers. I think I am going to replace them with 2x echoing truths.... having 2x of a 3cc spell isn't enough to reliably use it for counterbalance.

[Ironstickman]

In my experience O-ring has been a very versatile card (as a 2-of)
I wouldn't cut it for a bouncer in a non tempo thresh build like UGw
(buy the goyf, it is critical for these decks)

[Elf_Ascetic]

4 Daze is very bad in a controlish ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh list with 2 basics that aren't Islands.

You shouldn't play Strands/Delta and a single Forest.

Run 4 Counterbalance, you won't find yourself ever hating the second one in your hand. You can brainstorm it away, Predict it away, pitch to Fow, or have a spare one backup.

4 Goyf is essential. Don´t try to play threshold without it, unless your meta is retarted.

[Adan]

4 Daze is very bad in a controlish ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh list with 2 basics that aren't Islands.

That's not true, 4 Dazes are essential. You should play Basiclands depending on you meta, though. I never really needed them.
But like in Clemens manabase with 10 fetch (4 Stand, 4 Heath, 2 Delta), supporting Daze was never a big problem.

The bigger reason not to play non-Island basiclands is that they suck when they are kept in opening hands. That's why I always ran 8 Detch, 8 Dual, 1 Island.

Run 4 Counterbalance, you won't find yourself ever hating the second one in your hand. You can brainstorm it away, Predict it away, pitch to Fow, or have a spare one backup.

I agree here. But I will go down to 3 Counterbalances again since I need space for Oblivion Ring which I want to test.
Counterbalance is also a very situational card, that's why I'm not really happy about being fixiated on Counterbalance.

[Omega]

you can also play 61 cards.deck :)

but i think 3-3 daze/CB is a good split, but 3/4 is better. You want CB to be on the table as fast as possible.

Robert

[hypeiv]

4 Daze is very bad in a controlish ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh list with 2 basics that aren't Islands.

You shouldn't play Strands/Delta and a single Forest.

Run 4 Counterbalance, you won't find yourself ever hating the second one in your hand. You can brainstorm it away, Predict it away, pitch to Fow, or have a spare one backup.

4 Goyf is essential. Don´t try to play threshold without it, unless your meta is retarted.

I obviously understand that non goyf is sub-optimal... I don't need people to hammer that point home.

Good thoughts on the basics.. I was originally thinking about wastelands and running a set of basics in a combination that would allow me to cast all my spells. While I have never had a problem not being able to cast daze I found out in testing the other day I more than welcome wasteland since the deck only needs 2 lands to run and wasteland helps my thresh. Blood moon could still be a problem...

I think I might do -1 forest +1 heath

alternatively I might end up replacing all 4 basics with a set of underground sea's or volcanic island to give me a 4th color in the sideboard if needed.

[raharu]

I obviously understand that non goyf is sub-optimal... I don't need people to hammer that point home.

Good thoughts on the basics.. I was originally thinking about wastelands and running a set of basics in a combination that would allow me to cast all my spells. While I have never had a problem not being able to cast daze I found out in testing the other day I more than welcome wasteland since the deck only needs 2 lands to run and wasteland helps my thresh. Blood moon could still be a problem...

I think I might do -1 forest +1 heath

alternatively I might end up replacing all 4 basics with a set of underground sea's or volcanic island to give me a 4th color in the sideboard if needed.

Well, I've never seen anyone complain about the 4 basic setup in lists packing Enforcer (2 Island, 1 Plains, 1 Forest). Being able to play Magic against decks that run relevant amounts of non-basic hate (Dragon Stompy, Staxx, AgroLoam, Deadguy Ale) is always nice as well.

[Jaiminho]

While I have never had a problem not being able to cast daze (...)

It is always a problem if you can't daze the opponent's turn 1 on the draw. Wasting Force of Will on Dazeable things is the worst thing ever to do.

(...) I found out in testing the other day I more than welcome wasteland since the deck only needs 2 lands to run and wasteland helps my thresh. Blood moon could still be a problem...

I think I might do -1 forest +1 heath

Wastelands help with threshold as much as Fetchlands do. They are both Stifleable and Wasteland doesn't do as much for your gameplan as basically any choose-your-color land you want, including basics. If you spend a early land drop playing and cracking a Wasteland, you will be getting yourself into a more Dazeable situation, you won't be able to enjoy extra mana for checking you top 3 and you may not have the mana for Counterbalance.

If you want to play tempo, play a deck focused on playing tempo, not this.