I would go with the challice @ 2 first turn, into the second turn raider, that gives you a strong clock, and you just shut off their tutors, leaving them with ETWs and Tendrils as outs, without tutors tendrils isn't going to kill you, so they would have to have ETW in hand, in order to beat that opening...however, that is a godly opening.
Would Chalice at zero perhaps be a better play if you have a Pyroclasm in your hand to stop Warrens?
Originally Posted by Skeggi
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
No, because if you compare likelihoods, it's much more probable that the TES player is holding at least 1 of 8 tutors as compared to 1 of 2-4 kill conditions.
Usually, with a Chalice at zero in play, TES will not have the mana to go for Igg or the colored mana for Returns. This means that Warrens is their only out. I would say go for the Zero if you have a clasm effect inhand.
I think Ozy's right actually if you don't have the Pyroclasm. After studying it, Chal-2 on a lead would be the best play, assuming you knew your opponent was TES and no other storm combo and you were on the play.
If you have the Pyroclasm somehow (I don't even run it), then it would depend on the rest of your hand.
Not to mention that your opponent could just end up Wishing for Spree and then going off if you drop Chalice at 2
However, everything I'm saying is only true if as Tacosnape said, you knew your opponent was TES and not other storm combo and you were on the play.
Chalice at 1 is bad times for FT/Ichorid, and Chalice at 0 for SI, etc. Scouting is tech.
How could that happen, since chalice at 2 stops wishes?
In general against an unknown opponent, will you just start beating as soon as possible or will you begin with lock pieces?
Last weekend i finished 8th in a local tournament with extremely random metagame with some kids playing T2-decks with only basic lands. No problem with those, though. Lost to geddon-stax and MUC. MUC would have been easier if I'd only prepared for it with my sideboard, which I didn't as it was the first time I even ran into one in tournaments.
More needles and some Defense Grids for the MUC-matchup.
EDIT: chalice for zero isn't always possible, meaning if you have several morph dudes in your hand. It significantly slows down your clock then.
The MUC mu is interesting.
In a local tournament, where I played Kadaj's MUC, I mopped the floor with DS. This was a little surprising, because I knew he was playing DS, and I can assure you I wasn't happy with that pairing.
Surprisingly, the mu was disgustingly one sided: he simply had no chance.
However, when I have played against a different MUC (less propaganda&B2B, more counters etc.) with my DS build (the opponent had akromas, 3spheres, SoF&I and crap like that) MUC has been the one getting the beating.
More threaths, especially Sulfurs, which can put the pressure on, and enable you to resolve other threaths when they are busy dealing with the sulfurs, really seem to make a difference.
Also, don't side 3sphere in against Kadaj's MUC - I just let it resolve (wasn't a threat, as wasn't Sword either) and paid the extra mana for my counterspells. No big deal. DS rarely gets to play 2 spells a turn anyways.
Most spells they have cost the three mana already (Propaganda, Shackles..) and if you cast 3Sphere and the opponent responses with B2B you might have just locked yourself out of the game :(
So my point was: play the beatsticks, leave spheres in the sb. Oh yeah, and never, ever leave home without 4 Needles.
As a MUC and DS player, I can attest to the fact that 1 active Shackles will ruin your day.
Yeah, from my experience the MUC matchup is terrible. You've got to side heavily for it to make it interesting, and unless it's a huge part of your metagame, you're better off just taking the loss.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Yeah. But g1 there are only 2 shackles usually. After sb, three. If you can resolve RPD, shackles doesn't get active in time. MUC also can't afford to miss the first five landdrops. I don't consider it a terrible mu, but my build is for control-meta anyways, so I suppose I'm slightly more prepared for it than the average DS.
But if I'd get to choose, I'd definitely be the MUC-player in this mu.
Resolve an RPD? What planet do you live on?
I'm 7-0 against MUC (and I mean, like, 7 losses). Scroll back one page to read all about my frustration with MUC. To quote one of the more gifted minds that read my report: If you expect to run into MUC, play something else.
He's got a good point. MUC sucks, but kicks you right in the nuts, seven times in a row.
This message has been deleted by Nightmare. Reason: Boo fucking hoo
@ Maykol: I seriously don't know. I mean, I played against MUC some months ago, neglected it as an relatively easy mu after some games, and didn't really even think of it until recently. And you're right, it should be a terrible mu. My short "testing" was somehow completely distorted.
Oh. And MUC doesn't suck, it's just a metagame deck. I played it because I expected to face a landstill/ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh/control deck two rounds of three. I was also getting tired of people knowing to mull the hands that lose to Moon against me.
Next time I'll probably play ichorid or something, there was at least two other muc players now. Those mirrors are just plain boring.
Also, we tested DS mirror against the DS player after I slaughtered him. He got an active SoFI but I got a Jitte, pumped it up, chump-blocked and killed his dude with the -1/-1 effect. Jitte is seriously the nuts against creatures. If you get a Jitte in the mirror, try to play a CotV at 2 to protect it. It just wins the game.
Now that I have this deck built, I was wondering if anyone has tried Chandra Nalaar or Rockshard Elemental in the 1 of slot usually occupied by Akroma?
Chandra seems like a great fit atcuz you can drop her off of a Seething Song. She seems like she would do well at riding the board of little chump blockers that get in your way and she swings the Tarmogoyf battle your way by finishing them off after combat.
Rockshard Elemental is a stretch but he morphs up for
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
Dude, I think that those "hope and pray that I draw a Seething Song" threats aren't worth it. I'd just run that third (or fourth) Sulfur Elemental or Taurian Mauler, 'cause he'll actually do something (more than being a 2/2 that gets countered by chalice at 0). (that's my reasoning against Akroma or Rockshard Elemental)Now that I have this deck built, I was wondering if anyone has tried Chandra Nalaar or Rockshard Elemental in the 1 of slot usually occupied by Akroma?
Chandra seems like a great fit at
Rockshard Elemental is a stretch but he morphs up for
Chandra is almost worth looking into. Like, she'll kill the first Goyf you run up against (which is wicked annoying), but the second will be like, "hey I have planeswalker now lawlz." Also, she's kind of a mediocre threat who can't finish off your opponent, even uninhibited, for 4 turns. Slogger can do that easily, Raiders has some difficultly doing that, and the little dudes too, but Dragon can certainly do that. I mean, she doesn't die to Wrath (or EE), but I still don't dig her. I want something big and scary, not something that'll do 1 damage.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
Chandra's biggest problem is not being Arc-Slogger. And while Chandra's awesome if she hits play, she adds onto that endlessly recurring situation of having Hellbent, 3-4 mana on the board, and complete control of the damage race as long as you don't topdeck an Arc-Slogger. I've lost tons of games that I would have won had I topdecked anything but an Arc-Slogger at a given moment in time. Obviously, Sloggie stays around because he wins way more games than he loses. Way more.
Chandra's not a great midgame topdeck even if you can play her, though. I'd rather have another big threat, usually, because either I need a threat at that point, or I'm in a threat-versus-threat stalemate that another threat would break me out of as effectively as Chandra's removal ability. Chandra's at her best if you can drop her out on turn one and start her 1 damage pings pre-emptively. Which isn't worth it in a deck where half the plays are at their best on turn one.
The main problem I have with Chandra is that she is a much more unstable drop than the others. She requires several turns to get up to her full potential, while if we go and drop a T1 Slogger or Pit Dragon they are pretty close to what they can do, assuming we have a way of outing the rest of our hand for the dragon.
And also, as pointed out, if you get Chandra later on, shes much worse off...as her ability isn't that great when you get to that point. I would much rather topdeck a 4/5 beatstick than something that just pings for a bit.
I actually tested Chandra against a bunch of decks back when she was spoiled. I found that she was hard to cast, was not a threat, and was not even our best option for removal. You are better off running another 3CC threat/RAkroma, but if you really want to clog the 5CC slot, Tahngarth or Tephraderm are better (but both awful) removal options.
Alternatively, you could run an actual removal card in that slot, like Aftershock or Demonfire.
Red Wizard needs food badly!
Instead of the 3c threat, what about using Imperial Recruiter to find Magus of the Moon or Simian Spirit Guide ala Imperial Painter?
Recruiter isn't popular for the following reasons....
1. it is very expensive market wise (several hundreds for a copy)
2. not a great benefit for the deck as the deck doesn't solely depend on Maguses and Spirit Guides
3. The deck is all about raw mammoth power than just little guys conquering the field with the aid of equipment and artificial control power.
4. not many players sport painters
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