[OLD] UGw Threshold

[Sanguine Voyeur]

I hope that the next one who can't simply write "Thresh" instead of "ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh" will receive a lifetime-ban. Seriously, wtf?

That's used to censor swear words. Even the newer ones.

[ParkerLewis]

ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh

Yeah, it'd be great if you could FINALLY be able to spell the deck's name correctly. It's been several weeks that the censorship of the bad spelling has been in place, and you've still not managed to write the name correctly EVEN ONCE IN ALL YOUR POSTS.

Thanks in advance for ensuring readability of your posts from now on.

[PowrDragn]

I was looking over that 5C Hatfield list and was wondering if it could be modified to something like the following...

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Sensei’s Divining Top
3 Daze

3 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Mystic Enforcer
4 Dark confidant


3 City of Brass
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

60 cards

3 Pyroclasm
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Extirpate/Yixlid Jailer (not sure which is better here)
2 Krosan Grip
2 Trygon Predator
2 Red Elemental Blast

15 cards


My concern with something like this is that Confidant/City of Brass/Thoughtseize produces too much life loss together. I would feel a lot better with an Umezawa's Jitte or two hanging out on the list personally.

Thoughtsieze + Confidant seem to swing games with the advantage you can get off of them. The white cards you get are quite amazing as well though.

Another issue I've noticed is that recently I've won more games by simply getting creatures down and being as over aggressive as I can. People seem to be very aware of Threshold and the lack of permanents that you have. This changes the way you need to play sometimes and I think this build gives me that option.

Granted, I've only played a couple of games (against a poor player), so I have no real idea if this deck is built on solid theory or not.

[hypeiv]

I have noticed in decks that do a lot of damage up front quickly run out of gas and get locked out vs thresh. I have playtested many games where my life goes down to 6 or 7 instantly then I lock out a win.

Main vs a deck like this you can always plow your own goyf to gain life. If your meta is heavy burn you can think about pariah, warmth or worship in the side board.

[PowrDragn]

Good call on Warmth. I totally forgot about that card. I was focusing more on Chill. But Warmth/Dragon's Claw is fine I suppose. Warmth would be the preferred option.

I know in the mirror a resolved Confidant is huge if it can sit for about three turns. So, I'm wondering if the CA that's created in this build is great enough to take the risk.

I would like Jitte both both aspects of the card. Life gain would be nice, but realistically it would function as another kill card which this version is a little light on. Not sure where I could fit it in anyway without reducing to cards down to 3's instead of 4's.

Just a thought.

[hypeiv]

In my limited testing mongoose is usually a house in this deck so I normally like to have 4 of. With 4x ponder 4x brainstorm 4x bob 4x top and 8x fetch land you can safely drop to 3x counterbalance... you will find one

[PowrDragn]

Yeah, the numbers can be adjusted. I'm just trying to make sure that the idea on the build is sound.

[PowrDragn]

Well, for a few days now, I've tried this list and it doen't hole up. Confidant + City of Brass + Thoughtseize is just entirely too much damage.

With this build, I've had a hard time beating any type of aggro decks. And anything with burn was almost an autoloss unless I just drew the Green creatures + Swords.

Against slower stuff and combo it seemed fine, but not any better than the older version. There are a few times where Thoughtseize is your savior, but overall, the Confidant and Cities didn't make for a happy time.

I wouldn't mind playing a build with the Thoughtseize still in and just replacing the Confidants with something else.

Interestingly though, I had given some consideration to a creature base that looks like:

4 Goose
4 Goyf
2 Enforcer
2 Werebear
1 Hoofprints

I know it's more permanents that most of us are used to playing, but I'm seeing more and more creature based decks in the format. It might just be localy. But a big Werebear can handle most of the creatures getting played.

And on top of that, something it would be nice to have a couple more bodies to throw in the way in the clutch to sit on StP just a little longer.

[raharu]

Well, for a few days now, I've tried this list and it doen't hole up. Confidant + City of Brass + Thoughtseize is just entirely too much damage.

With this build, I've had a hard time beating any type of aggro decks. And anything with burn was almost an autoloss unless I just drew the Green creatures + Swords.

Against slower stuff and combo it seemed fine, but not any better than the older version. There are a few times where Thoughtseize is your savior, but overall, the Confidant and Cities didn't make for a happy time.

I wouldn't mind playing a build with the Thoughtseize still in and just replacing the Confidants with something else.

Interestingly though, I had given some consideration to a creature base that looks like:

4 Goose
4 Goyf
2 Enforcer
2 Werebear
1 Hoofprints

I know it's more permanents that most of us are used to playing, but I'm seeing more and more creature based decks in the format. It might just be localy. But a big Werebear can handle most of the creatures getting played.

And on top of that, something it would be nice to have a couple more bodies to throw in the way in the clutch to sit on StP just a little longer.

I really see no reason to run another Hoofprints instead of the two Werebears. Considering that the Hoofprints are recuring creatures, you can take two bears for one HotS (tm), as they're just as big, have evasion, don't sucumb to typical Creature removal, and would open another slot for a cantrip (enhanced Consistancey), a utility (Wipe Away? Predator? EE? iDunno), more draw (Predict perhaps), or the 18th land to power out Enforcer more consistantly.

[PowrDragn]

After reviewing some other decklists and putting a little more of this to thought, I figured I'd go with this list:

Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

Enchantments/Artifacts
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Pithing Needle

Creatures/Threats
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Trygon Predator
1 Mystic Enforcer
1 Hoofprints of the Stag

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Windswept Heath
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Plains

60 cards

3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crpyt/Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Krosan Grip
2 Control Magic

15 cards


I'm not sure if I should have Neddles or EE. Many people on here seem to be excited about EE, but I've never found a time that it was good for me. I could just be absolutely terrible at Legacy as well. I just simply didn't find a time where I had the mana/position to make it worth its weight.

I went with a few more basics, because there have been some Wastelands floating around our area. I'm unsure if the land situation is right, but it looks good for now.

I'm also not sure if Gaddock Teeg belongs in the sideboard. And for that matter do you guys think WoSaM or crypt is the right card. I think I'm going with Tormod's Crypt for now. I also went with Control Magic over Vedalken Shackles as it is an immediate answer and seems a little easier to use.

[PowrDragn]

I'm starting feel like I'm spamming the boards here, so I apologize for that.

However, I seem to be running into tough first games against Goblins. It's monored, but that concerns me, because I would assume that the Rw and Rb goblins are even tougher.

I'm only running about 40/60 against them first game. Is that normal or am I absolutely terrible with this deck? (And yes, the fact that I'm screwing it up is a definitely possibility).

[Brushwagg]

Goblins is a very tough match-up. They have very good card advantage and can swarm the board. Creature hoards gives White NQG problems. The key to winning the match is keep vial off the board stick Counterbalance and ride Tarmogoyf for the W. Even that plan can lose but it's the best you got without splashing a 4th color.

A SB card you might look into though is Tivadar's Crusade. Especially if you know your going to see Goblins alot in your meta. Other helpful cards are Engineered Explosives, BEB/Hydroblast, and Sphere of Law(it's a little expensive to play).

[PowrDragn]

I've already got 5 blasts in my board, which was obvious. A couple of times, I even boarded in Gaddock Teeg just to have another body and that also seemed to help.

I've considered dropping a blast or two for a couple of chills and/or Tivadar's Crusade.

I truly wouldn't be surprised if my local meta ends up having goblins and burn. That's the reason I've considered Chill.

I constantly see EE being listed as an answer to several things, but the card just doesn't seem to work out for me. I usually don't have a good number to set it at or I have another card that needs to be cast as an immediate answer and don't want to tie up that 2-3 mana for the EE. So for now, it's not in my deck at all.

[kabal]

However, I seem to be running into tough first games against Goblins.

Stifle is a good cards against Goblins, run in MB.

Hits Lackey, Ringleader, SGC, Piledriver, Matron, Incinerator, Wasteland.

[raharu]

Is there any particular reason why Shackles wouldn't strongly skew the Goblins MU in your favor?

[PowrDragn]

That's a definitely a playable option. Of course it's sideboard only. I don't want that hanging out gumming up draws first game.

[Shugyosha]

Wrath of God is always a SB option to look into in UGW. Especially if you run Hoofprints instead of Enforcers. It seems to contradict the deck concept but if you play it right it can be amazing and very surprising. The problem, especially in the Goblin matchup is the mana denial.

[arsenalpow]

Stifle is a good cards against Goblins, run in MB.

Hits Lackey, Ringleader, SGC, Piledriver, Matron, Incinerator, Wasteland.

I don't think you can stifle piledriver, that pro blue thing is cheater sometimes.

[Brehn]

I don't think you can stifle piledriver, that pro blue thing is cheater sometimes.

You can. The permanent has Pro:Blue, not the ability.

[Gman]

Hello all, long time reader, shy poster etc.

I've been testing my version of ugw thresh with Vendillion Clique instead of some of the more traditional finishers like Mystic Enforcer or Hoofprints. My list, besides that is pretty standard. The Clique's instant speed plus sizable power can make for a decent clock with evasion.

Some random pros off the top of my head:
-Good versus control, since it's instant speed. You might be able to put your oponent in a position where they have to tap out or use up resources at the end of their turn, while you replenish yours when you get to untap. It may be the case where they will let it resolve because they have a removal spell, but then again they risk losing that spell to the Clique's ability. I should say that they could use top or brainstorm tricks to get around this.

-Another cool trick can mess up their Counterbalance. You play spell, they top in response, you play Clique in response to the Counterbalance trigger, they have a new card on top. Maybe now your spell will resolve?

-More quickly breaks stalemates. If your creatures are sitting there staring at your opponent's, a Clique is quicker to break that stalemate. With Enforcer, usually you have to get to 4 mana, and then have a few resources to protect it like counter magic or extra mana for Top or whatever. Not so with the Clique. I'm not sure if Hoofprints is better in this case, you're probably overall in better shape with a landed Hoofprints but it is of course slower and clunkier.

-Better versus combo. Yep.

-Combat tricks. It can jump in the way of opposing Mongeese, etc.

-Goblins? I think the Clique might be weak versus goblins due to Fanatic but then again it could potentially stave off a Warrens Weirding or something returned to by Wort; not to mention a freshly tutored Ringleader.

-Counterbalance curve. I really don't like O-ring in this deck. This may be the problem solver for the 3 drop spot in the curve.

-Obligitory reference to being pitchable to FoW. Actually this is relevent, because you can't always shuffle away an unneeded Enforcer and it is literally a dead card.

White Threshold is traditional the more controlling build so I think the Clique has a useful and appropriate role here. Try it out and let me know what you think.