Hollywood, do to the decks weakness against Mono-Colored aggro decks D&T Goblins, etc, I've recently been testing a 2nd Silent Arbiter and Umezawa's Jittes out of the board and I've been really impressed by them. Have you given Jitte any consideration against the not so great aggro matchups?Originally Posted by A Legend
Team Hammafist
I was thinking about it. It might actually be a much wiser solution than more creatures in the board because you already play so many in the main. Jitte would solve a lot of issues the deck faces against more aggressive decks.
A Legend: did you make any report of your second place?
http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?ty...&format=Legacy
Maveric I suggest you start paying attention to the format, instead of trying to bait A_Legend.
This deck is a known entity in both USA and Europe and is likely to get better as people work on it.
It is already being worked on in UK, and I have no doubt the Germans have several lists undergoing testing.
It's not just a "flash in the pan" , the deck has an interesting and fairly reliable kill .
People ignored Aluren and AgroLoam for ages (especially in USA), but those decks proved just how well they can contend.
Instead of just writing off the deck, either suggest in a concise manner where you think the decks flaws are (and yes there are some), or leave the thread and accept that others want to work on it without your trolling.
On the deck, I've had some sucess with the Imperial lists but currently am branching away from red to splash a second colour to help in some of the weaker matches.
Blasts are much better in legacy than ppl would like to admit. Even as a counter to a brainstorm, they can be useful across the board.
Imperial Recruiter is an interesting idea and I wonder just how far it can be taken successfully. For one thing I would like to test an integrated list using both painter\IR\and an affinity style shell.
4 IR
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Painter
2 Ornithopter
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Atog
4 Frogmite
3 Chrome Mox
4 ReBs
2 Pyroblast
4 Grindstone
4 Aether Vial
4 Cranial Plating
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
5 Mountain
I've also been considering a RDW style shell with the classic manabase:
4 Wasteland
4 Port
4 Woooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
8 Mountains
That way Painter is protected while resolving with blasts, and in response to removal you can either destroy lands and such or just simply counter the removal. Seems like a decent complement to a reletively slow combo deck.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
.
Last edited by Volt; 10-12-2008 at 02:27 AM.
Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.
So you people were trying to put this Imperial Painter to a more aggro mode, good luck with that, that's a cool idea anyway unless I'll miss the way Jaya use her strength to control the board and SSG + Blast as red FoW. .
@Happy, too many Plating in my opinion, also 3 Chrome Mox for only 13 color imprinted will be a waste (yes you can sac them for Ravager, but the benefit is too low)
n my baby says,"papa papa, u don't payat upkeep. ."
"Tidal forces of the blood moon wrench and buckle the land, drawing monoliths of stone and soil toward the flaming orb"
Finals at Hadley 6/28/08
Hopefully there'll be another good report after this weekend in Syracuse at the $1,000 event.
Painter makes late game artifacts and even lands imprintable on Chrome Mox. You could imprint other Grindstones which would make up slightly for how useless they are in multiples. Platings are very good and with no draw you want to maximize how often you draw them. Being able to force them through with blasts is awesome. Plating also makes IR somewhat better, giving it the ability to trade with much much larger creatures.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
No it doesn't. Chrome Mox says non land, non artifact.
Another possibility for a Recruit-able aggro one-of is Furnace Whelp. Although it is one less toughness then Dragon Whelp, it's fire breathing isn't limited, so it can end the game sooner.
I went to an 11-person tournament at Comic Book Crazy in Garland Texas on Saturday and placed 1st with Imperial Painter. Here's the list I took:
10 Mountain
4 City
4 tomb
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Magus
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
3 Jaya
3 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Bolt
4 RE Blast
4 P Blast
4 Grindstone
SB:
3 Trinisphere
3 Blood Moon
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Viashino Heretic
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Stuffy Doll
I had only played Legacy casually (but usually against competitive decks) since there is no organized Legacy in Houston. This weekend though I had a business trip to the Dallas area so I was finally able to play in a tournament...and thanks to Imperial Painter the result was good. The metagame was probably half casual decks. The decks I knew of were:
1 UBGR Goyf Control (competitive)
1 Welder/Naught/Painter Control (competitive)
1 Mono-red Aggro (seemed competitive since he got 2nd place)
2 White Weenie (both seemed fairly casual)
1 Affinity (I think this was a standard build - competitive)
1 Slivers (I didn't see this build)
1 Reanimator (I didn't see this build)
I don't know what the other 2 decks were, but I know 1 of them was casual.
Next time I'll try to take notes as things happen, but here's what I wrote down immediately after the tournament:
Match 1 / UBGR Goyf
Game 1 - I went second and saw a delta, so my first turn I played a Tomb, a Mox (imprinting something), and then a second Mox, looking at my opponent for permission. I actually did not intend to imprint anything on this one, but to bait something out if possible, so I could safely play a Magus 1st turn. I can't remember if it was a Brainstorm/Daze or a Stifle, but it worked. I got my Magus, and proceeded to get a Painter and some Blasts, which kept me in total control until I got a Grindstone on turn 6 or 7 I think.
SB: -3 Magma Jet, -1 Jaya, +3 Blood Moon, +1 Shusher (I made the mistake of not bringing in Trinisphere)
Game 2 - I can't remember the start of this one, but I know he was able to counter many of my early spells. After I have a Painter and a Recruiter out, he plays Deed (I'm thinking this was sideboarded, which I find is correct). He wipes the board clean, and plays a Goyf next turn. I'm finished soon after.
SB: -4 Grindstone, +3 Trinisphere, +1 Stuffy Doll
Game 3 - This game started with me playing a Magus and a Blood Moon both of which are countered. Then I play a Trinisphere, which I think I had to protect with a Blast. I Recruit a Shusher, play it, and draw another Recruiter and have a Blood Moon in hand. I Recruit w/ Shusher support for Stuffy Doll. During most of this time, the opponent is using Sensei's Top to shape his hand, but plays a Goyf, which is 5/6. I activate Shusher's ability, which gets Stifled, so I play Blood Moon to bait out the counter, which he has to do because every land he has is nonbasic. I have chumpblocked with both Recruiters now, leaving only my Shusher. But now I activate his ability successfully and play the Doll. Without STP's or Jitte, he has no answer for Doll, and I proceed to play a Servant and draw some Lightning Bolts, and win. Doll can be really good!
2-1
Match 2 / White Weenie
Game 1 - I go first, and I do have some burn, but a Soltari Priest with a SoFI is too difficult for me to deal with. I lose.
SB: -4 Magus, -1 Jaya, -4 Blasts, + 3 Trinisphere, +3 Pyrokinesis, +2 Viashino Heretic, +1 Doll (I'm not sure if I sideboard correctly here)
Game 2 - I combo on turn 3.
Game 3 - My first turn Trinisphere slows the Weenies after a Savannah Lion is already played, and my second turn Servant serves as a decent blocker early. I draw some Blasts and a Jaya, and try to find the right balance of removing threats and land, but Serra Avengers, Soltari Priests and some other guys are coming fast. I have Pyrokinesis in hand but there is a Burrenton Forge Tender out. I think I make a mistake here by Recruiting a Heretic as preemptive protection from equipment, when I could've fetched Doll. I had already Blasted the Flyers, and the only guy that was evasive was 1 Priest. I Magma Jet one of the Weenies and scry away 2 Mountains. I'm at 5 life and I topdeck a Grindstone. I have to use Tomb to play and use it, so I win with 3 life.
4-2
Match 3 / Mono-Red Aggro
Game 1 - I go first and play Mountain, Grindstone. He plays Mountain. I play Tomb, Servant and then have to Blast his Lightning Bolt. I can't remember what he plays, but I combo on turn 3.
SB: -4 Magus, -2 Blasts, +3 Trinisphere, +3 Pyrokinesis
Game 2 - He plays Mountain. I play Tomb, Servant, but he Bolts it. He plays Mogg Fanatic I think. I play Mountain, and another Servant. He plays a burn spell that deals 2 damage to Servant (I can't remember which spell), but I have two Blasts in hand, and I counter. Next turn I play Grindstone off of the Tomb, taking 3 damage total, but I keep the Mountain untapped to Blast-counter. I draw a mountain, play it, and combo on turn 4 with an extra mountain and Blast available but it isn't necessary.
6-2
Match 4 / Welder/Naught/Servant Control
I concede so he can get into top 4. We did not play our deck against each other here because we figured we might meet in the semifinals or finals. Since we don't, I wish we would have played so I could test the matchup.
Top 4: Me, UBGR Goyf, Welder/Naught/Servant, Mono-Red Aggro
Semifinals / UBGR Goyf again
Game 1 - I go first I think, and I play Magus, protected by SSG and Blast. I have no cards in hand after turn 1. That doesn't matter though because I topdeck a Servant, some Blasts, and then a Gindstone, and combo on turn 6 or 7 I think.
SB: -4 Grindstone, -3 Jet, -1 Jaya, +3 Trinisphere, +3 Blood Moon, +1 Shusher, +1 Doll
Game 2 - Even though I have 2 Cities, SSG and a Magus, I mulligan because I have no back up red mana, and only a Recruiter to play if the Magus were to be countered. I get a hand with Mox, Tomb, Recruiter, SSG and 2 Blasts. He plays a land. I have play Recruiter and hope it doesn't get countered. He Brainstorms, but the Recruiter gets through, and I find a Servant. He plays a Top, then I play the Servant. He plays Deed, then I Blast the Deed, and keep 1 Blast for countering. I don't remember the next several turns exactly, but I force a Trinisphere out with Blast. I know that I Recruited a Magus but the Magus was countered, and he gets a Goyf out at 4/5. He also Grips the Trinisphere. After chumpblocking the Goyf with both Recruiters, I draw Stuffy Doll, but I have to wait another turn before I get the mana to play it. I do and it is not countered. After that, I get another Trinisphere, stabilize and slow roll.
8-2
Finals / Mono-Red Aggro
Game 1 - I combo on turn 4 or 5 after controlling the board with burn and Blasts (Magma Jets help here).
SB: -4 Magus, -2 Blasts, +3 Trinisphere, +2 Pyrokinesis, +1 Doll
Game 2 - I have my first turn Servant Bolted, and I'm not topdecking much. He plays Boggart Ram Gang on turn 3 which starts to scare me. I get a Bolt and kill the Ram Gang. I play a Servant, and then Magma Jet one of his other guys, scrying and finding a Grindstone on turn 6 I think and being at 8 life. He beats me for 4 more the following turn, and then I have to Tomb to activate the Grindstone, so I win with 2 life. What a game!
10-2
In summary:
1. Thanks to Josh at Comic Book Crazy for managing a great store and hosting Legacy. The people at the tournament were especially cool.
2. Even though it wasn't the most competitive tournament in the world, it still made me more confident that Imperial Painter is good.
3. Stuffy Doll was incredible for me in this tournament. I put him in the SB to help against Deed, but he is just generally bad for Goyfs. Obviously he is great against control that doesn't use STP (and probably against certain Aggro that doesn't use Jitte). But with extra Blood Moon effects in the SB and the ability to Blast lands, I could even see him being used against control with STP, since you can deny access to the white mana.
4. I liked having 4 Lightning Bolts and 3 Magma Jets MD. It made me more comfortable in Game 1's against aggro.
5. From this tournament, I found a little too frequently that I did not want to discard anything to Pyrokinesis. I know that this was no normal metagame, but is this a concern anyone else has had? I know that I really wanted a Silent Arbiter against White Weenie, and I was thinking about going down to 2 Pyrokinesis in the SB and adding the Arbiter back in.
6. I'd like to try a Hearth Kami or something in the place of one of the Viashino Heretics, so that you can search for something that will destroy an artifact the turn it comes into play. Any thoughts on this?
Well, I'm sure I forgot some stuff, but that's enough for one post. I give credit to many people on this thread for helping improve this deck, and helping me to understand it better. This deck is damn fun to play.
Last edited by DrewliusMaximus; 07-14-2008 at 11:11 AM. Reason: Spelling
I've been testing out two Sword of Fire and Ice in the deck and I really like it. It basically acts like a Lightning Greaves when Painter's Servant is in play. Your creature can't be targeted against their blue spells, you pump up rather smaller creatures, you can kill opposing creatures, and you draw cards.
I think it's the solution the deck has been looking for.
That doesn't work. Painter's Servant makes Sophie blue, so when state-based effects are checked after equipping it to a creature, it will become unattached because that creature has Protection from Blue.
You could splash for Blue Ward, however
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Ahh right. I completely became oblivious to the fact it makes the Equipment blue, too.
At any rate, it's really strong here with creatures like Simian Spirit Guide and Imperial Recruiter who just become Clark Kents outside of their super-powers and I think it merits some discussion. Thoughts?
I'd rather run SOL&S, 'cause it'll get you EE or Deed'd away folks, gain you life (negligibly important) and make your Painter Swords-proof (And smother, Vindicate, Ghastly Demise and... Last Gasp-proof).
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
I ran this list and came in 3rd in local tourney yesterday
10 mtn
4 tomb
4 traitors
4 chrome
4 painter
4 recruiter
4 magmoon
4 bolt
4 spirit guide
8 blast
3 stone
3 trisphere
2 jaya
1 shusher
1 macabre
side
1 blessing
1 macabre
1 duplicant
1 stingscourger
1 stuffy doll
1 silent arbiter
1 heretic
1 fulminator mage
2 shatter spree
2 pyrokinesis
3 blood moon
first I will say, I love this deck, and will be completing my set of recruiters to play it full time. I had to drive all over town yesterday to borrow recruiters from two different ppl to complement the single one I own. the meta was basically all combo and fish, which I crushed. the only deck I lost to was in top 4, a GWB agro deck w volrath stronghold, e-witness, tombstalker, d-conf, doran, plows, etc. I didnt have nearly enough yard hate to deal w his recursion, I will definitely be playing 4xmacabre in future between main/side. I lost two games in the swiss due to manaflood, so conclude I need either fetchlands+divining top or make a black splash for d-conf + thoughtseize. also, I feel the moon effects are over rated. every deck was prepared for them, and as soon as they saw mtn, they got basics w every fetch. in no game was magmoon devastating, and probably only was substantially responsible for winning one game. Im definitely cutting the bloodmoons from board, and probably cutting magmoon main down to 1-2, just as recruiter target. painter+jaya is much more effective mana denial anyway. jaya was great, I actually used her big ability twice. first to kill a tombstalker, and then to just deal 6 damage to opponent for lethal. I had earlier considered, and am now convinced is correct, instead playing price of progress in place of moons. let them have their non-basics, and get raped by PoP. lightning bolt was clutch, killing many, many dark confidants, and just efficiently doming opponents to accelerate clock. I was also considering
spitebellow (cant be recruited, but kills tombstalker/anything)
wildfire emisary (better than dragon whelp/etc? cant be plowed, and still firebreathes pretty well off tomb/traitors)
greater gargadon (hes just pretty good, and synergizes w city traitors)
lava dart/flame jab (lightning bolt pretty much was just kill target dark confidant, and price of progress is more effective dome burn, so this would be better than bolt)
FYI, sounds like The Rock with Doran.
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
Hmm, I was under the impression that painter made it possible. I'll have to confirm that.
Btw, has anyone considered Goblin Welder?
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
And how do you get the stuff you want to weld into your GY?
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.
your pieces can still be killed and countered. This would be an excellent backup plan, not to mention could have very good synergy with SB cards such as crypt.
This is the direction I was thinking for a more controling build:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Pyroblast
4 Grindstone
4 Magma Jet
4 IR
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Jaya?
2 Fledgling Dragon
4 Wasteland
4 Port
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Badlands
1 Swamp
3 Mountain
Destroy target land for 1 mana? Sign me up.
Last edited by Happy Gilmore; 07-14-2008 at 10:27 AM.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
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