[Deck] Solidarity (Reset High Tide)

[Bahamuth]

Ironically, Solidarity just lost to 43 Lands in the ICBM Open top 8

Yea, shit happens. I lost to 43 Lands myself in a top 8 a while ago too. Unlucky topdecks, Chalice, Port and some fast beats cost me that match.

Who was playing Solidarity? Are there any lists?

Edit: Nevermind. Should've looked first.

[e_hawk77]

bahamuth is right solidarity was always a fight. It was play back when vial goblins was really big and still did well then. Now there are a few better answers to it but if you have a good pilot you can still win match-ups. personaly I like it becuase it is a fight and I hate playing the thresh mirror all day long. I dont think it is dead it just needs to be tuned and needs more pilots that are skilled with the deck.

And autowins are not really autowins. I played in a tourney awhile back and won it with goblins going 2-0 in my last two matchs vs rifter and 43 lands.

[Pelikanudo]

I have to ask A question that makes me no sleep only to Experts:

supossing we have no high tides in hand , 3 lands one of those fetch in play and 1 impulse inpulse in hand .( I've to mention that until this point we haven't made any suffle effect)
Well If our goal is to get the High tide What is more efficient:
1) fetch the land and next play the Impulse
2) play the impulse and next play fetch for land.

In my oppinion the 2nd point is the correct because If we haven't draw the H.Tide in our opening hand of 7 cards we will break the statistics of finding one in the next 4 cards if we make any sufle effect.
Somebody says this is incorrect because you can not supose that H.Tide is nearer once you draw 7 cards....
But we are supposed we are all agree that if for instance we are facing a control deck like.. landstill the best hand we can draw is 7 islands Ritgh?.
Please help everybody ¡¡¡¡
Please Gearheart give me your advice as you were the creator¡¡¡¡


A point is that because we play 4 H.Tide we are SUPOSSED and ONLY SUPOSSED that if we play 60 cards the first occurence of H.Tide will be found in the 15th position. Of course that the 4 H.Tides CAN stay in the range 56 to 60th position but this is an issue that we simply dont contemplate

[arsenalpow]

ok lets just look at the math of the situation

Lets assume you were on the play

Your board consists of
3 islands
1 fetch

Your hand consists of at least an impulse and 5 other cards (you started with 7, you drew a card every turn and only played a land per turn)

You have used 10 cards from your deck so far (assuming you played no other spells during the game) so there are 50 cards to work with. You do not know the order of your library. There are 4 high tides in the deck.

Lets suppose you impulse without fetching. Here are the percentages that the card could be a high tide

1st card - 4/50 (8.00%)
2nd card - 4/49 (8.16%)
3rd card - 4/48 (8.33%)
4th card - 4/47 (8.51%)

Then lets suppose you fetch before you impulse, this will reduce your library count by 1 additional card. Here are the new percentages for the impulse.

1st card - 4/49 (8.16%)
2nd card - 4/48 (8.33%)
3rd card - 4/47 (8.51%)
4th card - 4/46 (8.69%)

By the math, the correct play would be to fetch prior to the impulse, You increase your odds of finding a high tide by 0.69% if you fetch before the impulse. Granted, its not a whole lot better off odds, but nonetheless better...

[GreenOne]

IWell If our goal is to get the High tide What is more efficient:
1) fetch the land and next play the Impulse
2) play the impulse and next play fetch for land.

The probability remains the same (based on the number of cards you have in the deck) so #1 is generally better, cause it reduces the number of cards in the deck.

However, if you did an Impulse, Opt, Flash of insight (>1) before in the game then you want to not crack the fetch, because you know some amount of non-High Tide cards are on the bottom of the deck, increasing the odds of an High Tide in the top cards.

[lebarion]

However, if you did an Impulse, Opt, Flash of insight (>1) before in the game then you want to not crack the fetch, because you know some amount of non-High Tide cards are on the bottom of the deck, increasing the odds of an High Tide in the top cards.

I was about to say the same thing. In most situations, you should not use a shuffle effect after an Impulse if it didn't find you what you want.

[Pelikanudo]

I was about to say the same thing. In most situations, you should not use a shuffle effect after an Impulse if it didn't find you what you want.

when you use an impulse and dont find the card you want you mean then you dont fetch if you use inmediatly next another searching effect.
if this is ritgh I thjink that drawing 7 cards , and dont find what you need ,and next use impulse BEFORE fetching is the same thing. So I think you boys are agree with me.

[e_hawk77]

I think this question also depends on the hand u have. If u have some cards u dont need or want til later in the combo turn like brainfreeze or cunning wish or if u have like 4 reset/turnabouts and need more cantrips. If this is the case then i think u save ur fetch for a brainstorm that way u can hopefully get rid of some of those cards. Also if u need more lands then i wouldn't fetch either. But if u just needed the high tide percentage wise it is better to fetch.

[Bahamuth]

Fetching to increase the chance of finding a certain non-land card is practically never a good idea. Fetch is much better when saved until you find a Brainstorm. That heavily outweighs increasing the chances of finding Tide. Having a fetch available in mid-combo is really good. Don't break fetch unless you just played a Brainstorm or you are forced to do so (Needle, Stifle, you know).

[frenchy-man]

Hi

I have played solidarity for many months, and the problem I checked out was the slow of this deck.
So the question I was asking myself is : has someone ever try to run the deck without the counters (or letting the set of fow/remand but not both of them) ?
It could perhaps improve the speed of the deck, and the capacity to kill on turn 3.

My question may be stupid but as I don't play it anymore reading this thread could force me to rediscover solidarity...

[Bahamuth]

I really don't understand why this deck has to be faster. Please tell me, against what deck does it matter to have a clock 1 turn faster? I can't think of any, except for maybe Sui (but those decks usually play their discard in the first couple of turns). Solidarity was built to fight trough hate, and by removing the counters, you're basically converting it into a bad FT.

[deviant]

If you feel like you are a turn too slow, it's better idea to try and make the opponent a turn slower than to try and make yourself a turn faster.
(The deck can only bend in so many ways, and this isn't really one of them..)

Some people have tried this sort of thing with a splash for Chants.
Personally I have no experience of Chants in this deck, but it looks interesting, and makes the control-mu's even more of a cakewalk while improving the combo-mu. (at least in theory it does, never played with them..)

Try them out and report back :D

[Citrus-God]

I was curious, should we play with Cryptic Commands or Spell Snares in the open slots? Here's my list as of now;


// Lands 18
2 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
12 Island


// Spells 42
4 Brainstorm
2 Opt
2 Peek
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
3 Meditate
2 Flash of Insight
2 Brain Freeze
3 Remand
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
3 Cunning Wish


// Sideboard 15
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Brain Freeze
1 Rebuild
3 Echoing Truth
4 Hydroblast
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Spell Snare

My favorite play of the day; Cunning Wish for Spell Snare to counter Counterbalance. I was thinking that Cryptic Command could be played here because it can bounce CB, but Spell Snares are much more flexible than Cryptic Command because Spell Snares can counter things like Devastating Dreams and such as well.

[PunkRocker1134]

Personally I would be inclined to think Cryptic Command would be better, seeing, as you noted, that it can bounce Counterbalance. As of now, it seems very difficult for us to fight through Counterbalance. However, if you want to run Spell Snare maindeck, which can counter counterbalance outright, I would suggest Wipe Away in the sideboard. Maybe something like -1 Echoing Truth +1 Wipe Away, even though Echoing Truth is much better against Ichorid(kills Zombie tokens) and Storm Combo(kills ETW tokens). I would only suggest that in a Thresh heavy meta.

Speaking of Thresh heavy meta's, in this current Thresh heavy meta I wouldn't imagine this deck faring to well, or has there been more tech as of recently improving the dreadful matchup I remember Solidarity having when I played it during the Vial Goblin era? Just looking at the most recent list posted, does 2 extra counterspells(the spell snares) make that much of a difference in the Thresh matchup in place of two combo pieces?

[Bahamuth]

I found that not every Thresh variant is dangerous. The UGw version is very doable, because it doesn't provide a clock very soon. You have plenty of opportunity to get rid of Counterbalance, if it even lands. The truly bad matchups are the versions with black. If they resolve a Confidant on turn 2 and you can't counter it, they basically won.

[e_hawk77]

Spell snare counters so many hate cards ( counterbalance, hymm, devistating dreams, chalice at one, thorns of the amytyst, meddling mage) that i don't see why u would play cryptic command over it. I guess cryptic can bounce couterbalance if there are no fours on top but black thresh in my meta play sower and white thresh plays enforcer or it could stall a turn vs aggro, but i would just rather counter them out right and move on. The card seems too slow to me.

As for cutting either force of will or remand I wouldn't do either. Force is your best defense in the deck. And remand makes you a turn faster it also makes the combo way more consistant by making u only need around 8 spells to go off before your first brain freeze.

[Deep6er]

And if you had Spell Snare every time they tried Counterbalance, AND they didn't have a Daze, AND they didn't have Force/Thoughtseize, then it seems you're in pretty good shape.

Sometimes Counterbalance resolves. You won't ALWAYS have Spell Snare. That's why people like Cryptic Command. It bounces Counterbalance and there's very few cards played at four in Threshold. Unfortunately, if they have a five on top, they can Force your Command leaving you dead in the water. I don't particularly like either of those options, but I haven't found anything better, so whatever.

[Bahamuth]

And if you had Spell Snare every time they tried Counterbalance, AND they didn't have a Daze, AND they didn't have Force/Thoughtseize, then it seems you're in pretty good shape.

Sometimes Counterbalance resolves. You won't ALWAYS have Spell Snare. That's why people like Cryptic Command. It bounces Counterbalance and there's very few cards played at four in Threshold. Unfortunately, if they have a five on top, they can Force your Command leaving you dead in the water. I don't particularly like either of those options, but I haven't found anything better, so whatever.

I found that Counterbalance usually doesn't come down turn 2, so Daze shouldn't be that much of a problem. If it does come down that fast, you will very likely have a lot of time and you will certainly have the possibility of getting rid of it. Spell Snare is practically never dead against Thresh. Getting one trough on a Counterbalance, Goyf or Confidant can easily be game-winning.

[Deep6er]

You're overvaluing the card something fierce. A 1-for-1 that doesn't do anything but counter a spell is rarely game-winning. To speak otherwise is misleading.

Additionally, it's rarely likely how much time you'll have if a Counterbalance lands early. NOT RESOLVING A SPELL is much like killing you the next turn. Good luck digging, you only have a couple of spells to do it with.

Listen dude, it's been my experience that Counterbalance is probably the WORST thing that could happen. I really don't think there's two ways about it.

[Kanti]

Cryptic can work wonders, but how many would you need MD to make it work? And would that cut down on consistency? A card that is dead for the first 3 turns of the game is kind of rough in the format.

Not saying it cant work, just saying its hard to picture it working.