[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[thefreakaccident]

If you are going to run anything in place of wrath/humility, then run disk, contrary to common belief, it is pretty cool to sweep all the opposing crits/CBs/whatevers... and it is unstifleable (well, stifle doesn't stop it forever at least)...

I actually find the card very good in a stompy/threshold meta (kills all the other shit as well as the creatures) while still being able to play it/ use it when and if a bloodmoon is online...

Needless to say, if no humility, then disk, if you are running neither, then you are insane... or playing deed

[undone]

How does this deck (The standard UWB cunning still) fair against UBG landstill what are key cards, and how does that matchup play.

[lavafrogg]

Just like every landstill mirror it depends on mana development and board superiority.
Cards like crucible of worlds and life from the loam will be huge in that they can regrow manlands and wastelands.
Importants cards being exterpate(remove recursive elements) and eternal dragon(recursion and flies over the gummed up ground)
It is possible that cunning wish can be a huge boon to counter the slow clock of a landstill deck (pulse).
Pernicious deed at the wrong time can cause you to have a sad day but what ever board sweeper you are using (which should proably be sided out) can cause the same thing.
Either way it will come down to who starts recurring wastelands and win conditions first so cunning wish>exterpate is some good.

[undone]

Thanks, I was curious how relivant counter top was in that matchup, as it seems like that resolved makes counter wars go drasticaly in his favor also makes games be lost on sheer lack of resolved waste locks. Is it bettter or worse game 2 (MMages help or not worth it)

(I know the mirror is all about Crucible man lands and wastes)

It seems ichorid the mirror and lands are the difficult matchups, Extirpates seem to help EVERY ONE of these, whats the next best extirpate (As an instant)

[Serbitar]

From my feeling the UWb vs Ubg Mirror should be about manasuperiority first (where UWb has Dragon/Crucible and Ubg has Crucible/Loam/Wasteland). And, if Ubg can't lock UWb out of mana, the white deck should win because of Decree (and Dragon). Cunning Wish for Extirpate is obv. also very strong.

Counterbalance can help stop opposing Wishes/Crucibles from resolving, but I think more importantly can Top help you establish mana superiority.

[Citrus-God]

From my feeling the UWb vs Ubg Mirror should be about manasuperiority first (where UWb has Dragon/Crucible and Ubg has Crucible/Loam/Wasteland). And, if Ubg can't lock UWb out of mana, the white deck should win because of Decree (and Dragon). Cunning Wish for Extirpate is obv. also very strong.

The question is whether UGB wants to break the Standstill first. If it does, then UW would probably win because UGB blinked, otherwise, it'd be land drop go under Standstill. If UGB finds Wasteland and decides to go LftL on you, then you can just cast Cunning Wish -> ETUtor for a Crucible of Worlds and just sit back and protect yourself or you can Extirpate it.

Counterbalance can help stop opposing Wishes/Crucibles from resolving, but I think more importantly can Top help you establish mana superiority.

Top helps establish mana superiority. Of course, I doubt Counterbalance is going to do much here still, to be honest. You still have to deal with cards like EE.

[freakish777]

If you are going to run anything in place of wrath/humility, then run disk, contrary to common belief, it is pretty cool to sweep all the opposing crits/CBs/whatevers... and it is unstifleable (well, stifle doesn't stop it forever at least)...

Wouldn't Oblivion Stone or Akroma's Vengeance be better (OStone gives you the possibilities of playing and activating in the same turn)? I realize OStone here actually isn't very good, but my point is essentially that Disk is way out-dated/classed against recently printed threats.

[raharu]

Wouldn't Oblivion Stone or Akroma's Vengeance be better (OStone gives you the possibilities of playing and activating in the same turn)? I realize OStone here actually isn't very good, but my point is essentially that Disk is way out-dated/classed against recently printed threats.

Well, Disk is faster than Vengance (turns wise) and has better payment distribution then O. Stone, but I presume that's a matter of preference. I like Disk, personally, it's just nice (although I find myself wishing most of the time that Vengance was 5cc instead of 6).

[torgar]

Disk-

Pros
Faster in the early game.
Dodges CB better since it's 4 instead of 3.
Destroys artifact lands/manlands
Looks like the pit of Sarlacc

Cons
CIPT sucks

O Stone-

Pros
Faster in the late game once you have 8 mana
Can save your own stuff (Humility/Crucible)

Cons
Doesn't blow up manlands/artifact lands
Costs 5 to activate

I prefer Disk because it kills more stuff, costs less and is usually something I cast whenever I can and let it sit there til I need it. If you've made it to 8 land drops then you're usually doing pretty good and won't need emergency O-stone in one turn. Disk lets me blow stuff up and still have mana for counters.

[Citrus-God]

Getting to 6 mana is nothing. I personally like that Vengeance wipes the board clean as you play it. I also like Vengeance because it cycles.

I used to have Vengeances in the Sideboard. I don't think I have ever been disappointed in them. Sure, Disk activates on Turn 5, but outside of that, it's a crappier topdeck than Vengeance.

[torgar]

You also can't tutor or recur Vengeance.

[Citrus-God]

You also can't tutor or recur Vengeance.

Yes, but Vengeance is what we call the perfect card for Landstill; post-board stupid decks board in nasty cards like Krosan Grip and other forms of artifact and enchantment removal. Vengeance gets around those cards and makes them dead. Post-board, I always board out Humilities for the 4th WoG and 2 Vengeances if I see Green.

[torgar]

What does your board look like? Are you running Wish-board? My slots are tight enough as it is to fit in more board control into the SB.

My sideboard currently:

x1 Enlightened Tutor
x1 Pulse of the Fields
x1 Return to Dust
x2 BEB
x3 Extirpate

x1 Tormod's Crypt
x1 Engineered Plague
x2 Runed Halo
x3 Meddling Mage


I'd like to fit in another BEB if possible to help against Goblins/Dragon Stompy.

[Citrus-God]

My Sideboard at the moment is

1 Return to Dust
1 Enlighten Tutor
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Fact or Fiction
3 Extirpate
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
2 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Wrath of God
2 Ajani Goldmane


I might cut the Ajanis and/or WoGs for something else and the 4th BEB. I'm not running Runed Halos because I want my opponent's Grips to be dead post-board. If you're up against tough players with great Sideboards, this can be a tough match-up. Making Krosan Grips dead against you is an amazing start though.

[raharu]

My Sideboard at the moment is

1 Return to Dust
1 Enlighten Tutor
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Fact or Fiction
3 Extirpate
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
2 Akroma's Vengeance
1 Wrath of God
2 Ajani Goldmane


I might cut the Ajanis and/or WoGs for something else and the 4th BEB. I'm not running Runed Halos because I want my opponent's Grips to be dead post-board. If you're up against tough players with great Sideboards, this can be a tough match-up. Making Krosan Grips dead against you is an amazing start though.

What are your thoughts on Vengnces in the MD? I'm sure that they're too slow to use against agro, but they're just too... Neat? to not use somewhere.

Also, why are you considering cutting the Ajani (Ajanis? Janice, rofl)? I'd think that with a token-producing win-condition that you would like Ajani a lot more than you do now. With HotS as a two-of, Ajani would be pretty dumb. Seriously, that second ability is just godly.

[Citrus-God]

What are your thoughts on Vengnces in the MD? I'm sure that they're too slow to use against agro, but they're just too... Neat? to not use somewhere.

I would consider using them in the maindeck. They aren't bad, they're just versatile cards that not only kill creatures but artifacts and enchantments as well. It's a crappy pseudo Deed, but it's a decent replacement; it can't be Needled, Stifled, or Balanced, only hard countered. I'm not running it maindeck at the moment because I'm running Cunning Wish which does what Vengeance tries to do but not all at once, just a flexible card. I will run Vengeance if I decide to cut Cunning Wish from the maindeck because of it's power.

Also, why are you considering cutting the Ajani (Ajanis? Janice, rofl)? I'd think that with a token-producing win-condition that you would like Ajani a lot more than you do now. With HotS as a two-of, Ajani would be pretty dumb. Seriously, that second ability is just godly.

I'm cutting Ajani because I needed to make room for better cards. I will use Ajani in an unknown metagame, but in a known meta, better cards than Ajani can take it's place. I realize that Ajani is amazing, but there are better cards.

As for Hoofprints, I think the card sucks. I don't want to explain it because I'm lazy, but I will stand by it sucking.

[diffy]

I'm not running Runed Halos because I want my opponent's Grips to be dead post-board.

I don't like this strategy - playing less powerful cards (and boarding out absolute powerhouses like Humility) only to gain some virtual card-advantage does not seem good to me especially since Krosan Grip will never be fully dead against you because it can still hit Mishra's Factory or a carelessly played Engineered Explosives. I'd rather flood my opponent with targets for Krosan Grip until one sticks and wins.

I'd like to fit in another BEB if possible to help against Goblins/Dragon Stompy.

You can cut a Runed Halo for the third Blue Elemental Blast - if you really want Halo in a specific matchup you can always board in the Wishboard Enlightened Tutor too. You'll then have the same virtual amount of Runed Halos (1+1 = 2) while maintaining flexibility. This boarding plan gets even better if you play some Enlightened Tutors main (I currently have one main).

For reference, my list (including current sideboard) can be found here.

What are your thoughts on Vengeances in the MD? I'm sure that they're too slow to use against aggro, but they're just too... Neat? to not use somewhere.

Engineered Explosives is Legacy's Akroma's Vengeance.

On a more serious note: the deck is already horribly slow/clunky as it is and you're already loosing games due to your lack of speed. If you add another extremely slow card, you're just worsening the situation even further i.e. you'll loose more which obviously is not a good thing. All the recent modifications of the list (inclusion of Ponder, cut of the third Cunning Wish, cut of Fact or Fiction) try to make the deck faster and give it a better early game - this recent development away from the 'lategame control' deck is in my opinion the correct path to take if you want Landstill to remain competitive in the field and shouldn't be abandoned.
If you want to play Akroma's Vengeance, you should try 4c Landstill with Pernicious Deed which does everything Vengeance does but at a better cost (you can split the 6 mana you'd normally have to pay). The comparison between Deed and Vengeance brings me to another point against its inclusion: there are just not enough relevant non-creature permanents out there to justify playing a Deed-effect.

As for Hoofprints, I think the card sucks. I don't want to explain it because I'm lazy, but I will stand by it sucking.

Hoofprints is bad because it's a wincondition that does nothing but win - all your other winconditions (Crucible of Worlds, Decree of Justice, Eternal Dragon) also do something to get you out of a loosing situation. Also, if compared to your other winconditions, Hoofprints is just a weak wincondition too: it is slower than your other winconditions (you basically need a Brainstorm or a Standstill for it to do anything) and a much worse topdeck than any one of them.

[Nihil Credo]

@DiF: What's up with the 3x BEBs postboard? With the 3x Runed Halo configuration, I can't think of a red deck that gives me big problems - some Red Thresh builds being the exception, but not because of the red spells.

Also, what's the purpose of Dust Bowl? With Crucible online it's strictly worse than Wasteland; without Crucible, there are few situations where I'd want to destroy multiple lands (as opposed to, say, killing a Volrath's Stronghold or something). It can help in the mirror to win the manland war under Standstill, but it dies to their Wasteland just like Wasteland, and you may not be able to destroy another land in response.

[diffy]

What's up with the 3x BEBs postboard? With the 3x Runed Halo configuration, I can't think of a red deck that gives me big problems - some Red Thresh builds being the exception, but not because of the red spells.

Blue Blasts have mainly been added for the Aggro Loam matchup which they improve tremendously. They're basically replacing the Runed Halos which were, after closer consideration, winmore as they were only really good in already good matchups (aggro control).
I really like them so far.

Also, what's the purpose of Dust Bowl?

Dust Bowl is awesome in the mirror - it wins games on its own (Anti~American can tell tales of this). It's also great in the lategame when you can wastelock someone without needing Crucible (especially important against random lands.deck).
It doesn't really have any disadvantages over Wasteland as most of the time you only want to use Wasteland in the lategame anyway where you have access to the plenty of mana you need for Dust Bowl.
It has also been very good so far.

[torgar]

@DiF: What's up with the 3x BEBs postboard? With the 3x Runed Halo configuration, I can't think of a red deck that gives me big problems - some Red Thresh builds being the exception, but not because of the red spells.

They are there primarily to combat Blood Moon/Magus effects. You need to answer DS's 8 Moon effects. (Unless you plan on boarding Demigod of Revenge, HA! NO) They also help against DS creatures, especially if they have an active Sword of Light and Shadow. Also good very good against Goblins, helps against Burn. Oh yeah, and Aggro-Loam.

@Der_imaginäre_Freund: I'm glad you've taken to the single x1 E.Plague and dropped Slaughter Pact. That single E. Plague is great vs ETW tokens, Ichorid horrors, Elves, Goblins, and randomness.