[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[humppa]

I take it G is for Tarmogoyf? I hold, however, that Angel is miles better than Tarmogoyf, and switching to BW (with more emphasis of White instead of the Green) would thereby only lose you Krosan Grip (but would gain you Exalted Angel, and tons of other cards which cost more than one W (should you desire to play them).

Why miles better than Tarmogoyf? Because when both players have Tarmos, you get a ground stall. However when you have an Angel and the opponent has a Tarmo, you can deal damage in the air and he can't block it, and gain back the life so that you don't get damaged by his return attack. Therefore Tarmogoyfs can't stall up the ground when you have Angel.

Why not Stalker? Because Stalker lacks the lifegain, and thus when you're put on defensive, such as against Thresh, you can still attack with Angel, but not Stalker as you have to keep him back to block for fear of your life total being destroyed on the return attack.

I play G for Doran, Goyf, Deed and Krosan Grip

Stalker si great for his low mana cost. Angel is 4cc-2turns, or 6cc-1turn. Very expensive. With many fetchlands and fast spells (thougthseize, hymn, dures, ...) could be Stalker really cheap. Armageddon is still played.

[raharu]

I play G for Doran, Goyf, Deed and Krosan Grip

Stalker si great for his low mana cost. Angel is 4cc-2turns, or 6cc-1turn. Very expensive. With many fetchlands and fast spells (thougthseize, hymn, dures, ...) could be Stalker really cheap. Armageddon is still played.

This. I'd love to play Angel, but she's a bit on the slow side.

[Aboroth]

I think in a BW-control exalted angel is the best choice.

Nearly 2 years ago, I was bored by playing Shades, Specters and Dark Ritual..

So I started to envelope a version with more aggro on the table.

The result is a weenie-deck using black for dark confidant (cardadvantage) and duress (against massremovals). Also the black mana allows to use disruptionspells from sideboard.

So, this is my actual decklist:

Dark Weenie
Lands (20)
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Godless Shrine
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire

Creatures (24)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Savannah Lions
4 Serra Avenger
4 Silver Knight
3 Spectral Lynx
3 Jötun Grunt
2 Isamaru, H. of Konda

Other spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Æther Vial
2 Vindicate
3 Duress
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Cabal Therapy

Sideboard (15)
4 Gerrard’s Verdict
3 Armageddon
3 Extirpate
2 Vindicate
2 Disenchant
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

[Hummingbird TG]

Well, since I'm out of contention now (3-2-1), I might as well post my list. Report to come when the whole thing is over. However, just to tease, secret tech still stays secret, for now.

First, the List I played in the Tourney (to my opponent next round, enjoy. XD):

Enlightened Ale v 1.0

Mana

4 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
7 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Plains

23

Utility Creatures

4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter

8

Disruption and Control

4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sensei's Divining Top

19

Tutor/Bullets

3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives

5

WIN

3 Exalted Angel

3

TECH

2 Super Secret Tech (no, as in, Tech, not the foil card)

2

The SB is a mess. As you can see, the manabase is horrendous. I cobbled the list together just a day before the Tourney, and i forgot to include several cards, nor did I change the manabase from my earlier 4 Pithing Needle list (which used horrendously few fetches). I'll EDIT in the Secret Tech after the tourney, which would probably make the list less like a pile.

And yes, as far as I've seen, this thrashes Thresh.

[raharu]

@ Aboroth: Looks like an old Bunnies build. That, or something like the Bunnies/DeadGuy Ale hybrid that Citrius God was working on a while back (like, MD'd Plauged and worrying about thresold's graveyard and Flash combo old). That's not to say that it isn't playable or viable in the current metagame, it just needs to be modernized a bit.

In the course of trying to modernize Bunnies over the course of roughly a year, I eventually ended up with this:

Mana: 20
Crome Moxen x4
Windswept Heath x3
Bloodstained Mire x3
Scrubland x4
Swamp x3
Plains x3

Creatures: 18
Mother of Runes x4
Dark Confidant x4
Jotun Grunt x2
Serra Avenger x3
Tomstalker x3
2x empty slots

Equipment: 2
Jitte x2

Planeswalkers: 2
Ajani Goldmane x2

Disruption: 10
Thoughtseize x4
Duress/ Cabal Therapy x2
Gerard's Verdict x4

Removal: 8
Swords to Plowshares x4
Vindicate x4

Yep. Doesn't look anything like the old Bunnies lists. There are a few reasons for this.

1) Small creatures don't work in Legacy anymore. Savanah Lions is unplayable crap, and Isamaru isn't worth playing past turn 3. Silver Knight doesn't have any relevant abilities in this metagame, isn't large enough, and isn't cost effective (again, for this metagoyf). If it were W instead of WW I'd play it, but since it's not, I'm kinda forced to sugest against it.

2) Combo has become more resilient. A sindle discard effect isn't going to do jack anymore. If you want to beat them game one, I'd play at least 8, 4 of which being Thoughtseize without a doubt.

3) Control... is control. The only chance you really have there is to eat their hand and drop an enormous clock/ protect your a threat as it goes the distance/ be able to win a war of atrittion. MoR protects your threat(s), Tombstalker/ Avenger/ Grunt/ Jitte go the distance, Dark Confidant helps win that war of attrition, and (this overlaps into point one) Isamaru, Lions, Silver Knight don't do any of that.

tl;dr I wasn't able to make a WB Zoo deck that was viable in this metagame because WB Zoo isn't viable in this metagoyf. I'll be trying it again soon, but I don't expect better results.

[Aboroth]

@raharu: I can follow your critique in a few points, but I'll report after the German Legacy Championships.

[Carabas]

You don't want weenies, and for the most part, I can understand that. What about spectral lynx, though? Regenerators are always annoying to deal with, and chumping goyfs all day long wouldn't be too horrid in the current meta, would it?

[Rush]

I've been testing this deck recently. All I have to say, is this is the best ROGUE deck I've ever seen (small joke, please tell me someone gets it). Also, Hummingbird, why do you have so few targets for Tutor; or are your "Tech" cards tutorable?

[carnifex]

Come on Hummingbird, reveal your tech! :D

[Hummingbird TG]

I guess I am owing everyone a list, so here is what I played:

Enlightened Ale v 1.0

Mana

4 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
7 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Plains

23

Utility Creatures

4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter

8

Disruption and Control

4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sensei's Divining Top

19

Tutor/Bullets

3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Moat

7

WIN

3 Exalted Angel

3

The SB was a wreck, basically. I can't believe I forgot to run Bitterblossom and Runed Halo in the build I played. But still, Moats FTW. Those things stop Goyfs dead.

Basically the Tournament went something like

Round 1 Stax 2-0

Round 2 UGb Thresh 2-0

Round 3 Landstill 0-2

Round 4 DRAW (opponent and I can't find time to play)

Round 5 BYE (Isamaru never pm-ed me back)

Round 6 Solidarity 0-2 (well, sometimes MWS hates me)

Round 7 DRAW (neither me nor opp pm each other)

Overall not very good a tourney, but I like the Moats in the deck very much. They stop random aggro too, as well as any creatures which cause a problem by dealing too much damage. I would run Volrath's Stronghold in the list were I to run it today though. Maybe a report to come if I can recall the matches well enough.

[raharu]

You don't want weenies, and for the most part, I can understand that. What about spectral lynx, though? Regenerators are always annoying to deal with, and chumping goyfs all day long wouldn't be too horrid in the current meta, would it?

Well, it somewhat begs the question: Why not play Bitterblossom?

[Rush]

Hummingbird: Have you tried Bitterblossom in the main? I would think it would combo nicely with Moat.

Randomness: Is anyone else a fan of the actual beer Dead Guy Ale?

[carnifex]

I really like your list a lot hummingbird. I hope I can snag some tutors and angels soon.

Bitterblossom seems almost like overkill, and the list ran smoothly already. Nobody anticipates the moat :P.

[ssilver]

Suggestion for Hummingbird. No rituals means 3rd turn Hippie at best. Goyf comes down turn 2, and a turn 4 - whatever random discard isn't that great when Thresh can go into top-deck mode and still beat. Bitterblossom is hard to remove, grows into a larger threat the longer it is allowed to last, and is fetchable with E tutor. It's offspring stay alive when it dies, allowing to go 2 for 1 removal (if they are packing explosives) and sometimes even better.

[Hummingbird TG]

I'm glad about the enthusiasm about my list. XD About Bitterblossom, I heavily regret not having it in the board, and I definitely should side at least one. For Hyppie, however, he has more direct impact on the game than blossom (i.e. impacts the game state immediately, being a creature that can block and attack the next turn); furthermore he is 3cc which dodges CB, and is dangerous for control decks to leave around. I wouldn't mind any flying attacker to carry a Jitte in that slot, though.

And Goyf? He doesn't get through a Moat. I don't need more creatures that can't get around a Moat...

Angels FTW, btw, as I've already said. I'm playing around with a normal Deadguy Ale build (those with Sinkholes and no fancy tricks) with Exalted Angel in Shade's slot, and I like that very much too..

[ssilver]

@Hummingbird: What's your SB look like?

[Shawon]

All this talk about Bitterblossom got me really interested in trying out a list of my own using Bitterblossom and Dark Confidant.

Here's what I ended up with, so far:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
5 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Godless Shrine

4 Exalted Angel
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Dark Confidant

4 Hymn to Tourach (1)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Bitterblossom
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Chrome Mox
3 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Vindicate
3 Duress

The core of this deck revolves around Confidant and Bitterblossom. Thus, Chrome Mox is used as a way to fuel out possible turn 1 Confidants/Blossoms.

Obviously, you need life gain to counteract the drawbacks of DC/BB thus Exalted Angel (ironically) and Umezawa's Jitte are used.

I'm pretty sure the manabase could be tweaked even more, possibly adding a third color. Should I add an Urborg? At first I used Wasteland, but I thought it wasn't worth it, since you can't capitalize the tempo as you would with Wasteland playing a deck like Eva Green. (Also why I don't use Sinkhole.) Not to mention, the colorless mana sucks.

I was using Gerrard's Verdict in the Duress slot for a bit more punch, but I opted for Duress since it smoothes the mana curve.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

[ssilver]

Hummingbird: If you do not make a new name/post for this B/W control deck (thats what it is in all honesty) then I will. After some testing I have found that your decklist is actually really good compared to others *nods in acquiescence.
Top is kinda funny as a 2 of, as you never want to tutor for it, and it's a bad topdeck late game. Maybe BB in that slot?

[electrolyze]

hey hummingbird, i like that tutor list, but im more a tempo player and i like exalted angel very much. so, i really like to know what your normal list with sinkholes and stuff looks like.


about bitterblossom, the build im playing with blossom right now(actually, its the only deadguy build im playing right now because i like it very much) is:

meekguy ale:

creatures:

4xserra avenger
4xspectral lynx
4xdark confidant

enchantments:

4xbitterblossom

artifacts:

3xmeekstone
3xjitte
1xsensei's divining top(i had one slot over because i cutted a meekstone, 3 where enough, so i putted this card into the list)

sorceries:

4xthoughtseize
4xduress
4xvindicate

instants:

4xswords to plowshares

land:

4xscrubland
1xgodless shrine
4xwasteland
3xbloodstained mire
3xwindswept heath
3xswamp
3xplains

this build works really good to me and its really, really fun to play.

but im interested what hummingbirds normal list with exalted angels looks like because angel rocks

[Hummingbird TG]

@Electrolyze:

Normal List (this one is fun but I don't like it very much, I guess I just suck at playing it..)

Mana

4 Dark Ritual
4 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
3 Swamp
1 Plains

26

Creatures

4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
3 Exalted Angel

11

Disruption

4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Extirpate

23

SIDEBOARD

1 Extirpate
4 Pithing Needle
4 Engineered Plague
4 Planar Void
2 Duress/Unknown


---

@ssilver:

I guess I may make a new thread for it, but I'm going to have to write a primer for that, right? So it may take some time. But in the meantime since it really is Deadguy Ale why not keep this in this thread? But then again about the deck I may not be the best person to start the thread since I don't test much and my results aren't really that conclusive...but I'll give it a shot anyway!

Anyway the current list I'm running:


4 B Scrubland
4 ON Bloodstained Mire
2 ON Windswept Heath
4 TE Wasteland
1 PLC Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 IN Swamp
1 TE Plains
1 SH Volrath's Stronghold
3 ON Polluted Delta


4 RAV Dark Confidant
3 10E Hypnotic Specter
3 ON Exalted Angel


3 MI Enlightened Tutor
4 B Swords to Plowshares
2 CHK Sensei's Divining Top
4 AP Vindicate
3 FE Hymn to Tourach
4 LRW Thoughtseize
2 7E Duress
1 FD Engineered Explosives
2 LG Moat
1 BOK Umezawa's Jitte
1 OPEN SLOT OPEN SLOT


SIDEBOARD

1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Moat
3 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
1 Planar Void
1 Runed Halo
1 Bitterblossom
2 Slots for Control Matchup -- Sinkhole??

^Above: Never again shall I copy+paste from MWS. XD 2 Tops are becuase they're really nuts with fetchlands and Tutors are shuffle effects anyway, and they save me life off Bob in the late game. And I never, never want to draw more than one Top. Hm, I might go up to 3 since I have a blank slot and few early plays though...