[Brainstorming] Ad Nauseam

[Sun_Ra]

This card is ridiculous. I really can't believe it's really as spoiled. If so, Legacy is going to become play Storm or go home very quickly.

[thefreakaccident]

Not if it is banned ASAP... But I would buy a playset just to get a chance to win my tourney with FT a few more times.

[Jak]

So.. uh... I just sold my combo deck to pick up Survival. I almost bought 4 goyfs when they were a buck too!

Anyway, this card is broken and I hope it gets banned. I am positive it will be, actually.

[fallenphoenix]

I don't rly see, how it is much more game-breaking than resolving IGG after Tutor+2xRituals. (And you will proably have cast these before AdN, too)

Don't get me wrong, this card is insane and if it doesn't get banned, it will see a lot of play.
But vs discard/permission it isn't much better than previous cards that have made decks like FT, Iggy Pop, etc... possible.

Compare it to setup-cards like Doomsday, IGG or even Cruel Bargain. All of these will eventually win the game, if used correctly.

It might be the best among the setup-cards printed until this day (except for those already on the BL, i.e. Bargain/Necro).
Time will tell.


Challenge: Break this card in a non-combo-deck!

[Deep6er]

This card makes me so incredibly happy in my pants.

If Storm combo goes insane, I may end up playing Solidarity with four maindeck Twincasts. That would be pretty awesome I think.

(Obviously I would splash black to play the card too.)

(Oh God, I just realized that this would be the crazy go nutty with Flash of Insight for your deck.)

[Jaiminho]

I don't rly see, how it is much more game-breaking than resolving IGG after Tutor+2xRituals. (And you will proably have cast these before AdN, too)

The IGG loop requires an Infernal tutor and the ability to produce 6 mana per iteration or actually produce less than that, while using stored mana, which usually include 2 cards. Compare to a single card that only requires 5 mana to cast and maybe not even a spare mana to keep chaining spells after it resolved. Also, you won't touch your graveyard, so you won't be affected by recurred counterspells. There's no comparison here.

[The Rack]

GG Legacy.

[J.V.]

This card makes me so incredibly happy in my pants.

.... I may end up playing Solidarity with four maindeck Twincasts. That would be pretty awesome I think.

(Obviously I would splash black to play the card too.)

(Oh God, I just realized that this would be the crazy go nutty with Flash of Insight for your deck.)

The world is a just place again!

[BreathWeapon]

Difference is when they Drain a Desire, they'll never get to their next turn to actually get the mana, as the Storm copies from Desire will likely allow the game to be marked up to the Desire player as a W.

It'd replace a ton of mediocre threats in Vintage if it isn't restricted, it's rather difficult to Mana Drain thru' Force of Will and Duress, which makes it similar to Gifts Ungiven combo set ups.

[fallenphoenix]

Well the comparison comes here:

Resolve AdN (probably tutored for and most probably via some ritual/other mana accelerant) -> do some stuff including drawing cards and getting more mana -> win the game via storm-spells.

Resolve IGG/Doomsday/other (/w rituals/tutors, see above) -> do some stuff -> win the game...

Or even:
Resolve Future Sight... see above...

If your Opponent does not interfere, you should win in any scenario. If he does have a Force, you lose a lot of cards and probably the game.

Ofc AdN is the better card, but it's not like constant Turn 2 or 3 wins are unlikely with any of the prevalent combo-decks.

And w/o protection you're still going to lose to the same stupid cards that have always been causing headache. FoW, Durress/'seize, MM/Teeg (even more so)...


Also, having to pay life makes it tougher against straight forward aggrodecks, because it limits your ressources. Goyf-Sligh might already have dealt 10+ dmg and still have a Fireblast waiting for a surprising finish.
If combo decks are going to rely heavily on AdN, I would not be surprised to see some decent Zoo-Decks on the rise.


Again, don't get me wrong, this card is awesome and I'm glad that we finally see a card that is scratching on the edge of "fairness".
The mere fact, that this card is being considered to be a contender among legacy-staples is proof of it's power.

[Jak]

Igg isn't always GG. You play rit, LED, tutor, Igg, rit, led, tutor, tendrils is only 16. It is possible to not generate enough storm or mana to get an igg loop for 9 spells into a tendrils.

If this card resolves with Petals, Mox, Lands, rits, etc (not hard to get 5 mana turn one) it is GG. It is a tutor and an engine card built into one that wins the game.

[undone]

Challenge: Break this card in a non-combo-deck!

+4 in 43 land

take 10, manabond GO.

Done. This card is stupid, it should have the following line of text "Banned in formats with fast mana"

This card>format?

[badjuju]

Challenge: Break this card in a non-combo-deck!

lolwut.
That's like saying: break Tarmogoyf in a non-aggro deck! Oh wait.

[Jak]

Originally Posted by fallenphoenix


Challenge: Break this card in a non-combo-deck!

Impossible. This plus the mana to cast is the perfect combo!

[raharu]

It wont be restricted in Vintage. There are too many other high-CC cards that will win you the game faster than this that would have to be cut in order to make it work. It's got "Mana Drain me" written all over it.

In Legacy, I'm looking forward to both building a deck around it, as well as countering it and getting a 3-for-1.

Yawg. Bargain. Nuff said.

[Happy Gilmore]

Honestly, I am just reliveved that this is not a sorcery, it might just be too good otherwise.

I do like however, how it allows a deck like iggy pop to no longer be graveyard dependent. Simply awesome. Although its still probably better in a deck like TES.

[J.V.]

Honestly, I am just reliveved that this is not a sorcery, it might just be too good otherwise.

QFT! Imagine being able to burning wish for this nonsense.

[The Rack]

This card is not really good. It's broken in half. All the black rituals are instants. EOT draw my library. I'd play this in 1 land belcher. YOu don't have 2 Forces for my Charbelchers? GG The card is way overpowered and if it's real, then Wizards is really stupid.

[Forbiddian]

The argument that this is "just another Iggy" is ridiculous, on multiple levels. First, Ad Nauseum isn't a little bit better, it's a 1-card combo. Resolve me and I win. It's 2 mana cheaper than Belcher, and doesn't require Land Grant. It's probably worse than Flash Hulk, but it only requires one card.


Hand: Land, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual (or any two Petal or Cabal) + Ad Nauseum = win turn 1.


To win with Ill-Gotten Gains, you need all of that, PLUS even more mana AND at least one tutor.

IGG basically tries to go for a turn 2 endstep Intuition into a turn 3 win. That's the fallback gameplan, and it's usually how the deck gets played. Turn 2 win isn't too hard, and turn 1 win is possible, but highly unlikely.

The other problem is that IGG is susceptible to residual graveyard hate leftover from Ichorid, etc. To hate out Ad Nauseum... I can't even think of anything. They can easily play around an Orim's Chant, either with a turn 1 Duress or Thoughtseize to or by resolving Ad Nauseum and then setting up the kill for the next turn by drawing into a tutor more fast mana. I'm sure there's some stuff that will come up to hate on AdN.dec, but anything I can think of other than 4 Forces, 4 Dazes, 8 Duresses.dec will just roll over and die to this.

Anyway, the final problem with AdN (as if the others weren't enough) is that Iggy-Pop is probably the best deck in the format minus hate. Everyone boards in enough Tormod's Crypts and stuff to keep Ichorid and Iggy-Pop numbers down, but even if AdN played like Ill-Gotten Gains 5-8 in Iggy-Pop, it would put Iggy over the top.

Already I have like 5-8 sideboard cards devoted to hating out the unstoppable combo decks in this format. Bumping that number any higher and the format becomes really unstable. It's just a coinflip vs. the combo decks and then you don't have enough sideboard slots remaining to make any of the other matchups interesting.

[The Rack]

How many people actually believe that it's a real card? There hasn't been any pictures so it could just be a cruel joke.