[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[SuckerPunch]

How about a build with Vision Charm and Tombstalker? Two fetchlands and a Charm makes for a Tombstalker on turn two. A 5/5 flyer isn't a 12/12 trampler, but it ain't shabby, either.

Something like this:

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tombstalker
4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Snuff Out
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp

Now this build is a whole lot more aggressive and less controllish than builds with Standstills and Countertop; it's closer to something like Eva Green. This is intentional.

I've been trying out something similar to this, with my own tweaks of course.

I'm running Phyrexian Negator and Lightning Greaves. When you are running so many very high powered creatures vulnerable to StP and such, giving them all both haste and untargetability for just 2 mana is a bargain.

Negator might be iffy depending on your meta. But I like it.

The build isn't anywhere close to tuned yet, otherwise I would post it.

But anyone else try out something similar?

[Ch0z3n]

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with colors, well except blue. His solution might very well be to bounce it with chain of vapor or echoing truth then push lethal damage through or counter it when it is replayed.

No one asked if it is needed. If his game plan is just not to plan, be is because he doesn't have room or no one plays it in his meta then that's fine, the answer would be: yes, he is willing to scoop to a resolved humility. Not having an answer to every question is fine, so long as you know that the question exists.

I did some more tinkering with the mana and SB. Still don't know what to take out of the main. Any suggestions?

4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [B] Tundra
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [UNH] Island
1 [B] Volcanic Island
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FUT] Epochrasite
2 [CS] Jotun Grunt
2 [TSP] Serra Avenger

4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [NE] Daze
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [DS] AEther Vial
3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [TSP] Trickbind
1 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives


SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [PT] Pyroclasm
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [CS] Counterbalance
SB: 1 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top

[HammafistRoob]

How about a build with Vision Charm and Tombstalker? Two fetchlands and a Charm makes for a Tombstalker on turn two. A 5/5 flyer isn't a 12/12 trampler, but it ain't shabby, either.

Something like this:

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tombstalker
4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Snuff Out
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp

Now this build is a whole lot more aggressive and less controllish than builds with Standstills and Countertop; it's closer to something like Eva Green. This is intentional.

We already established that this isn't Dreadstill. Illisius made a thread for it somewhere in the N&D, I don't think it went very far though.

[Ch0z3n]

I think that is given away by the lack of standstill... goyf sligh isnt goyf sligh without goyfs...

[The_Red_Panda]

It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with colors, well except blue. His solution might very well be to bounce it with chain of vapor or echoing truth then push lethal damage through or counter it when it is replayed.

That sounds like a terrible idea when it would be so easy to just get an actual answer for it. I.E. Grip/Oring Ect. Spending a bounce spell and then attempting to fight a counter-war against landstill just makes my stomach turn.

No one asked if it is needed. If his game plan is just not to plan, be is because he doesn't have room or no one plays it in his meta then that's fine, the answer would be: yes, he is willing to scoop to a resolved humility. Not having an answer to every question is fine, so long as you know that the question exists.

Alright, I see your point. That just sounds like a recipe for failure, and I know when I start hearing things like "I just scoop to that" I start wanting to say stuff like "why, when you could sideboard a good answer"?

[Ch0z3n]

I am not at all saying that bounce is the best solution, but you will often get into just as big a counter war over o-ring and often you can get down a nought or 2 under humility so you only need 1-2 turns to win. The point was that there are answers in blue, even if they aren't the best, so it doesn't have to be a flame war between colors.

Given that the legacy meta is so wide open in generally it would be almost impossible to have answers to everything. You have to pick and choose the cards that will be most effective in a variety of matches or cards that make match ups go from completely unwinnable to your favor or at least competitive. Also, local metas in general are very diverse. The fact is that even people who play in eternal formats might be unwilling to pay $500 or more for their decks or just play home-brew decks. If you play in a predictable meta and no one plays humility, I don't think it is too big a risk not to have the perfect answer to it. Sure, you might lose a match every once in a while because of it, but then you can adjust your deck as needed. Not everyone gets to play in 30+ person tournaments every week.

[bananafish]

Ok, i'm going to quit lurking and actually write in this thread. I've played Dreadstill quite a bit locally and at the GP: Copenhagen side event and done very well with it, going something like 10-1-1 combined locally and 4-1-2 getting 10th (out of 63) at the legacy side event, would've been 5-1-1 as I played goyf and standstill to his empty board and hand on the first extra turn in the last round, but didn't have time to finish him.

I've played the U/g/r version with different tweaks all the time, my current list is pretty close to Rich Shay's list from a few pages back:

3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
2 Krosan Grip
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
4 Mishra’s Factory
3 Wasteland

SB:
3 Pyroblast
3 Hydroblast
3 Pyroclasm
1 Krosan Grip
1 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Echoing Truth
1 Counterbalance
1 Engineered Explosives

I think 2 Pyroblasts would be enough as they're mostly used as backup spells to force through key spells (cannot be used to counter goyfs from thresh for example), and firespout is probably better than pyroclasm as it hits a lot more key creatures (serra avenger, rakdos pit dragon, skyshroud elite...) and you can generally hit 3 mana with this deck. The maindeck Krosan Grips have been pretty good, but sometimes they are awful so I'm not sure if they're right or not. Sometimes they are real blowouts, though, and a nice surprise G1 when people think their Counterbalance or Deed is safe. I used to have Spell Snares in that slot and they were always solid, but I tended to board them out as they just felt the least necessary in the deck. I also like to board out Dazes on the draw, giving me just 4 hard counters in FoW.

I'm very happy with the 4 goyfs, I had 3 but I'm always happy to see them and they make me able to play a different game with the deck. I like to be aggressive with my Stifle effects, pretty much always stifling the early fetches, sometimes even with nought in hand. I like to get Countertop or Standstill down before I resolve a nought as most decks will have an instant answer to the first one.

Dreadstill seems to get a lot of bashing and I can see that, it doesn't look very powerful or synergistic when you first look at it, but it's surprisingly robust and games don't play out how you might think when you just look at the decklist. The mana seems rough with so many colorless lands, but the only UU spell is Counterbalance and it usually doesn't come down on turn 2 anyway. Dreadstill is capable of doing so many unfair things with Stifle/Wasteland giving free wins, Stiflenought giving free wins and Factory/Standstill giving free wins. Stifle is such a strong card that is used to full potential here. Ditto Standstill, which I like even more in the goyf version, a lot of my games are effectively ended after an initial back-and-forth struggle that ends with me playing goyf and Standstill in the same turn. Not as unfair as going Nought, Stifle, Standstill, but still pretty damn strong.

I tried Crucibles maindeck but they were very underwhelming as they just don't affect the board and are only effective when you are already winning. I don't think I've ever been happy to draw one. Right now I'm very happy with the maindeck, the only decision being between SDT#3 and EE#2.

I haven't tried any of the other splashes, but I can't see a version without goyf being stronger. People seem to like Oblivion Ring, why is that? What's it do that other cards can't? It's not played in standard and pretty much only in U/W tron in extended, why is it powerful enough here? The lure of StP is strong though, I think that's the card I miss the most in this deck. The only out I have to large creatures, most notably Tombstalker and Mystic Enforcer, is racing with Nought, making them effectively must-counter. I don't see that much in the black splash, thoughtseize could be alright, but would take the deck in a more aggressive direction and I like it more controllish.

Ok this post turned out way longer than I thought, I'm going to stop now.

[kilukru]

So, because of land limation in my collection i went UR. So first here's my current list : (Edit : yeah it's pretty much roodmishtah list, should have putted this earlyer, I needed a starting point and it was a good one)

// Lands
3 [R] Volcanic Island
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
5 [RAV] Island (2)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
3 [FD] Trinket Mage
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [OD] Standstill
2 [TSP] Trickbind
3 [CS] Counterbalance

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [R] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [7E] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 3 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [ARC] Blue Elemental Blast

Here are my toughts :

6 Stifles effect : Im not disapointed, this deck really can abuse this effect, adding a fourth wasteland to allow a greater control over opponent mana base sound really sexy. I tried 5, was still quite sufficient for the nought but maybee a little short for the mana bas control, so 5 stiffles-3 wasteland 6 stifles-4 wasteland? well see

Counter package : Seriously as good as daze can be, spell snare just out played it for me! Both card savd my neck about the same number of time but the big difference was that i often wished for that daze in my hand to be a snare, and the opposite praticly never happened, so daze was cut to 3 (in this case that made room for the second EE). And 4 Fow, no comment.

No enchantment/artefact hate : This is the biggest weekness of this deck, you have to relly on counter, and post board on bounce/counter wich is a pretty bad strategy. Win fast is still the best move against ench/art based strategy and so far the deck performed quite good in this area.

3 Mages : If the 4 wasteland plan dosnt work, I will drop to 5 stifles effect and add a fourth mage, one more beater can really make a difference in this deck.

SB : I only own 1 needle so there's only 1 but I guess 2 would be the correct number.

Echoing truth : This card act more as a time walk to get an extra turn attacking with the big guy then anything else. Like I said earlyer, bounce/counter is just plan bad. Also double up as a token sweeper.

BEB/REB : Still not sure if I want 3REB/2BEB or 3BEB/2REB, a question of meta i guess.

Clasm : Firespout sound better, it's on my to aquire list, but for now clasm is doing a good job.

In conclusion : this deck score a 9 on the batshiat crazyness meter for it's power and the fact that it's a blast to play. (im a natural control player but smashing face with nought just feel so good!)

[Rood]

Yeah that's almost my list card for card, just switch Wooded to Delta and 1 Snare to Daze ;). You can afford to go down to 2 Clasms and up your BEB count to 3.

[J.V.]

Yeah definitely drop the Foothills for more U-Fetches, you don't won't to get stuck needing a basic island and not being able to fetch them, against Dragon Stompy or Aggro-Loam for example.

[gypsy]

can anyone post a good Ugr dreadstill list i have a legacy tourny on sat and havent kept up with the new tech and was wondering what some of the last slots are compared to mine. also my metagame is kinda random only 2-3 good players was wondering if this deck is good in a random meta

[klaus]

@bananafish:

I like your list and would suggest only minor stuff.

that single EE in the board could/should be a Needle afaic.
Also: what are those Echoing Truths for? Dreadlists that don't have access to W/G (read: monoU, UB, UR) use them as pseudo artifact/enchantment removal.
Having 2 Grip main and one in the side does it.
I'd replace them with another Crypt and a "Metaslot".

Your maindeck looks solid, though I feel 5 stifle effects should be enough with 3 Noughts. I see where you're coming from however.

[J.V.]

can anyone post a good Ugr dreadstill list i have a legacy tourny on sat and havent kept up with the new tech and was wondering what some of the last slots are compared to mine. also my metagame is kinda random only 2-3 good players was wondering if this deck is good in a random meta

This is what I've been playing:
Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Wasteland
4 Island

Creatures:10
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:29
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Snare
1 Trickbind

Sideboard:15
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
2 Firespout
1 Pithing Needle

[The_Red_Panda]

List

If you're only playing two colors, main deck 4x wasteland. You have plenty of basics and whatnot for colors, and the additional disruption might come in handy. Plus, then you don't have to leave that pesky 1x wasteland somewhere away from the rest of the playset. It might get lost!



I really like the REB/Pyroblasts out of the board. I don't think I would drop below 4 anytime soon. Bringing those in against blue decks gives you such an edge it's unbelievable. Blasting away islands/forces/draw spells just feels so good. Counterspell costs 2 for a reason. Also, I run 6 stife effects (previously 7) and I don't think I'd go any lower. The fact that you need stifles both for slowing your opponent and for comboing with nought means you don't want to run out, or be unable to draw one. Five feels risky to me.

random only 2-3 good players was wondering if this deck is good in a random meta

It's absurd. My local meta is mostly yank decks with a few good players, and not even that much combo, and Dreadstill just rolls over everything.

Bad aggro decks fold to turn two dreadnought, because it's ALWAYS going to be faster than them. That's pre-board. When you bring in 3-4x Firespout, the matchup goes from favorable to like 90% in your favor. The only deck I've had trouble with in these regards is Goyf sligh, and only because their creatures don't get blown away by Firespout.

Bad Combo decks fold to force/daze/disruption because they're even more susceptible than their non-bad counterparts.

The only real problem matchups I've seen with this deck are rock variants and slow control decks. That's where I love 4x red blast. It may not do jack shit to rock, but I've basically decided that I just lose that matchup, similar to how some decks "just lose" the combo matchup. Red blast plus Krosan grip to deal with weird enchantments/artifacts make the matchup a little better post board, but still not in your favor.

[kiwi]

Whats your game plane againts LandStill ?

I think that Landstill is a bad pairing for DreadStill.

What can I do if I play UGR dreadstill version ??
In 2 color version back to basic is a good option but in 3 colors versions I dont know what to do againts landstill, may be playing 4 REB ?

[The_Red_Panda]

In 2 color version back to basic is a good option but in 3 colors versions I dont know what to do againts landstill, may be playing 4 REB ?

I really like the REB/Pyroblasts out of the board. I don't think I would drop below 4 anytime soon. Bringing those in against blue decks gives you such an edge it's unbelievable. Blasting away islands/forces/draw spells just feels so good. Counterspell costs 2 for a reason.

The only real problem matchups I've seen with this deck are rock variants and slow control decks. That's where I love 4x red blast. It may not do jack shit to rock, but I've basically decided that I just lose that matchup, similar to how some decks "just lose" the combo matchup. Red blast plus Krosan grip to deal with weird enchantments/artifacts make the matchup a little better post board, but still not in your favor.

I've been waiting to do that for so long.

[b4r0n]

REBs seem solid against Landstill. What do you side out? A mix of Dazes and Standstills, right? Just out of curiosity, are there any matchups where you side out Dreadnought?

[Rood]

REBs seem solid against Landstill. What do you side out? A mix of Dazes and Standstills, right? Just out of curiosity, are there any matchups where you side out Dreadnought?

I normally board 1 out against a ton of decks, Landstill, Threshold, and sometimes Rock. REB is an extremely solid card from the board it will give you that edge over the control player like Panda said. I witnessed J.V. lose to Blood Moon to SwanThresh over the weekend and I couldn't help myself but think "What if Dreadstill ran a playset of MoTM from the board"? Seeing as nobody runs basic forest it could be an absolute house to getting Dreanought down and not having to care about K-grip. Also destroying Landstill/ITF variants.

[J.V.]

I normally board 1 out against a ton of decks, Landstill, Threshold, and sometimes Rock. REB is an extremely solid card from the board it will give you that edge over the control player like Panda said. I witnessed J.V. lose to Blood Moon to SwanThresh over the weekend and I couldn't help myself but think "What if Dreadstill ran a playset of MoTM from the board"? Seeing as nobody runs basic forest it could be an absolute house to getting Dreanought down and not having to care about K-grip. Also destroying Landstill/ITF variants.

Just wanted to add my hand was 2x Krosan Grip, 3x Tarmogoyf at the time.

[J.V.]

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Magus of the Moon