Up-ing Affinity: Shards Addition

[Kilz88]

Hello all. I used to post here more often but I thought maybe you guys could help me out. Right now I have affinity built for legacy. I know it is not a great deck choice as it gets hit pretty hard by the commonly used deed, but the recent shards of alara previews may bring some hope to the matter. First lemme layout what I understand to be the different affinity archetypes:

Affinty: Using UBR artifact lands, disciple, atog, fling/shrapnel blast, and thoughtcast.

AfFoWinity: Using force of will obviously.

Bobaffinity: Using dark confidant and no myr enforcer.

Erayo Affinity: Comboing out to flip erayo early.


My build is the straight up normal affinity...but these cards from shards may not help one archetype but rather, create a new one entirely:

Etherium Sculptor 1U
Artifact Creature - Vedalken Artificer (C!)

Artifact spells you play cost 1 less to play.

1/2


Master of Etherium 2U
Artifact Creature - Vedalken Wizard (R)

Master of Etherium's power and toughness are each equal to the number of artifacts you control.
Other artifact creatures you control get +1/+1.

*/*

Salvage Titan 4BB
Artifact Creature - Golem (R)

You may sacrifice three artifacts rather than pay Salvage Titan's mana cost.
Remove three artifact cards in your graveyard from the game: Return Salvage Titan from your graveyard to hand.

6/4

Now I have a few ideas but I would really like some help on make these guys really work. I am least excited about the master but the other 2 seem too promising. Thanks guys!

[Hanni]

I don't think the first or third guys are worth it.

2cc for a 1/2 is not as good as something like Vial, IMO. I could be wrong on this, but by the time you hit 1U, lowering the cost of artifacts isn't going to matter as much. Vial is useful because it puts creatures into play through Counterbalance and only costs 1cc.

Sacrificing 3 creatures is antisynergistic with Etherium and it competes with Ravager. The difference with Ravager, though, is that it can exceed 4 toughness. Goyf is regularly a 4/5... against Affinity, expect at least a 5/6. Ravager has the potential to exceed 5 toughness. I understand that it can be played first turn as a 6/4, though I think that just opens the deck up to Force of Will. The ability to dodge Counterbalance is nifty, though.

Master of Etherium is an obvious 4-of. The card solves alot of Affinity's problems. By being blue, the deck gets access to FoW now where it didn't before. Between 4 Vision Charm, 4 Force of Will, and 4 Epochrasite, the deck has resilience to EE/Deed. Etherium is out of Counterbalance range, pumps your horde of artifact doods, and is often going to be larger than Tarmogoyf.

My personal list for Affinity right now can be found in the Dreadnought AfFOWnity 2008 thread. I run Nought/Stifle and FoW in my list, along with some other goodies.

[rufus]

I think you'd be well-served to run the Ethersworn Canonist.

Skill Borrower seems like it also has huge potential.

[4eak]

Having tested a ton of affinity builds (and logged thousands of games in our group's player database with the many flavors of affinity), I really just divide the affinity archetype into two groups:

Aggro-combo affinity
Aggro-control affinity

Builds with Enforcer, higher artifact counts, and more explosive early games are generally aggro-combo affinity. This archetype has the most consistent game and the earliest lethal damage, but at a serious cost. It has a poor mainboard game against combo and lacks any tools to deal with strong artifact hate and board clearing. This version has excellent matchups against some major decks though. I see the addition of MoE and E-Canon (to the side) as pushing the deck over the threshold of cards that effectively scale with artifacts in play, making it the best aggro deck in the format with the proper pilot.

FoW, Stifle/Nought, Erayo, E-Canon, 8-spheres, etc...all represent some form of aggro-control affinity. This archetype has a much better chance against combo, but it is generally 2-2.5 turns behind the fundamental turn of the aggro-combo versions. If I split this archetype again, I'd say one was attempting to look like Stax and the other like Dreadstill with a stronger creature-base. Aggro-control affinity have gained enough cards to actually make them viable choices in the right metagame, and so they've passed a serious threshold because of Shards as well.

My build is the straight up normal affinity

I take this to mean your build is supposed to be aggro-combo affinity (that is the form in which it is most well-known). Of the cards you listed, only Master of Etherium will have any major impact on aggro-combo affinity's maindeck. If you are interested in aggro-combo affinity, then please visit the Vial Affinity thread.

Vial Affinity
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=8147


Etherium Sculptor is a welcome addition to almost all forms of aggro-control affinity (because it is blue and stabilizes the mana-curve of AfFoWnity and because it asymmetrically counteracts Spheres in the Stax-like version of affinity).

If you are interested in playing aggro-control affinity, then please visit these threads:

Dreadnought Affinity
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=9137

AfFoWnity
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=5595

8-Sphere (Stax Affinity)
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=10584


The third creature will not be played. Three artifacts is too high a cost for what you get.

Skill Borrower seems like it also has huge potential.

Not in affinity.

I think you'd be well-served to run the Ethersworn Canonist

As sideboard material in aggro-combo affinity, or as mainboard in certain versions of aggro-control affinity.


Our testing has put aggro-combo affinity with the best matchups so far. The deck relies too much on the synergy between each card of the deck to make room for control. The exception, of course, is against combo (which will be very powerful if AdN isn't banned).




peace,
4eak

[BreathWeapon]

Salvage Titan looks great, turning those lands, Ornithopers and Drums into a creature that can go toe to toe with Tarmogoyf seems like a deal.

[The Rack]

Doesn't Ethersworn Canonist make the combo matchup a lot more enjoyable now?

[scrumdogg]

Salvage Titan looks great, turning those lands, Ornithopers and Drums into a creature that can go toe to toe with Tarmogoyf seems like a deal.

Did you just advocate 4-1'ing yourself against a deck that is in color to run Krosan Grip and might have access to STP? While ensuring that you can't realistically run Dark Confidant? Wow...stellar, would you like to sac the rest of your board to bring it back next turn? Your opponent is beaming mental approval at you....

[Aggro_zombies]

Doesn't Ethersworn Canonist make the combo matchup a lot more enjoyable now?

Ethersworn Canonist and her friend Erayo make every matchup a lot more enjoyable.

[BreathWeapon]

Did you just advocate 4-1'ing yourself against a deck that is in color to run Krosan Grip and might have access to STP? While ensuring that you can't realistically run Dark Confidant? Wow...stellar, would you like to sac the rest of your board to bring it back next turn? Your opponent is beaming mental approval at you....

If all I'm sacrificing are useless lands, drums, thopters and workers I'd consider it.

[Jak]

If all I'm sacrificing are useless lands, drums, thopters and workers I'd consider it.

I think scrum's arguement was pretty lame considering you do it with Ravager already. Affinity sets itself up for CD a lot. The only problem I see with this card is that it competes a lot with Ravager and now with the newer cards, you want artifacts out on the field.

[AngryTroll]

I think scrum's arguement was pretty lame considering you do it with Ravager already. Affinity sets itself up for CD a lot. The only problem I see with this card is that it competes a lot with Ravager and now with the newer cards, you want artifacts out on the field.

But Ravager can move his counters around when he dies. And you probably don't sac the team to him unless you are winning right then and there...quite a lot different then saccing three artifacts for a dude. Getting 4-for-1'd in a deck that sets itself up for card disadvantage is making the problem worse.

I suppose he could see play in a balls-to-the-wall aggro version of the deck, but he is just asking to be Sword's, making Swords the cheapest way to generate mass card advantage ever. Ancestral Recall: 3-for-1; Swords your Salvage Titan: 4-for-1.

[4eak]

Salvage Titan looks great, turning those lands, Ornithopers and Drums into a creature that can go toe to toe with Tarmogoyf seems like a deal.

Ravager/Plating/MoE/Disciple already scale with those artifacts, and they all make lands, drums, and Ornithopter more valuable. The value of keeping those artifacts in play for the scalability and synergy of the deck far outweighs what you gain by casting Titan.

Doesn't Ethersworn Canonist make the combo matchup a lot more enjoyable now?

E-Canon + Spheres make it a doable matchup if they don't kill you on Turn 1.

While ensuring that you can't realistically run Dark Confidant?

You shouldn't be running that card in affinity in the first place.

I think scrum's arguement was pretty lame considering you do it with Ravager already. Affinity sets itself up for CD a lot.

The card disadvantage is a calculated choice you make on the board. You don't sac to ravager the turn he comes into play (unlike Titan). You calculate combat damage over the next several turns (keeping in mind your opponent's board and overall deck strat), and then perhaps you make adjustments when you start swinging. Affinity's card disadvantage from ravager is usually one of three things:

1. ) Lethal Swing damage from Modular (or 1-2 turns fewer for lethal)
2. ) Lethal Disciple Life loss
3. ) Dodging Removal

CD is much less meaningful in the first two cases, and in the third, you are practically countering removal.


Myr Enforcer is just flat better than Salvage Titan.




peace,
4eak

[Kilz88]

Thanks leak. Lots of great info. I did mean the aggro-combo affinity. I will post my current list in that thread but I would love to see your newest list including what we know in shards. Even pre-shards actually. By the way, what is AdN?

[undone]

Seems like AfOWinity with the */* guy Erayo and Force and counter balance. In fact

4 Counter balance
4 Force of will
4 Erayo
4 ravanger
4 Master of etherium

4 frogmite
4 enforcer
4 Thopter
4 Thought cast
4 Spring leaf drum
2 other blue cards

4 nexus
14 artifact lands.

The build might be different but this seems relatively decent as an idea for AFOWinity. I could be wrong though. Im thinking that master of etherium acts as a "Im bigger then goyf, period" type creature.

[AngryTroll]

(list)

While Counterbalance is awesome, that curve is much better against Counterbalance than it is at supporting Counterbalance.

1cc: 4
2cc: 12
3cc: 4
4cc: 4
5cc: 8
7cc: 4

As most things cost one or two, and sometimes three, this isn't a great deck for Counterbalance. In addition to the curve, you are running 14 artifact lands, and only the four Seat of the Synod can tap for blue. While Springleaf Drum does help get double blue, you are going to have a terrible time casting Counterbalance. Without Top or Brainstorm to help it counter things, and with only 4 1cc cards in the deck, Counterbalance is not going to do a very good job in this deck. Thresh runs 16-18 blue sources, Sensei's Divining Top, Brainstorm, and Ponder to utilize Counterbalance effectively.

_______________________________________________________

What is interesting about Affinity right now is that there are several directions it can take. There's:
Dreadnaught Affinity
Straight Aggro Affinity
and Erayo Affinity

As far as splashes go, you can splash:
Black for Dark Confidant;
White for the new 2/2 that is great against combo;
Red for Fling and Atog, possibly Shrapnel Blast;
or a heavy blue splash for Force

I would not be surprised if two different versions of Affinity emerge as the best lists; one a version with Dreadnaught and one without it.

[4eak]

@ Kilz88

Thanks leak.

hehe. 4eak=Four-eak=Freak

By the way, what is AdN?

Ad Nauseum -- 3BB -- Instant
Reveal the top card of your library and put that card into your hand. You lose life equal to its converted mana cost. You may repeat this process any number of times.

This is a very powerful card in storm-based combo decks. Turn 1 and 2 kills are scarily common with the deck, and that can put some of affinity's hate out of range. I believe the card will be banned, but if it isn't, then affinity may have serious difficulty with the deck (although, it can be made favorable). The deck plays a lot like Vintage TPS with so much fast mana and tutorage.

I would love to see your newest list including what we know in shards.

Assuming a sideboard designed primarily to combat combo (which mainly affects the mana-base), this is my current aggro-comob affinity build:

Lands: 18
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Glimmervoid

Creatures: 28
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Frogmite
4 Ornithopter
4 Master of Etherium
4 Myr Enforcer

Spells: 14
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Aether Vial
3 Springleaf Drum

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ undone

-That deck doesn't flip Erayo very well.
-Why play Erayo without E-canon?
-Counterbalance has no place in the deck whatsoever

Here is our current Erayo Affinity list:

Non-Artifact Lock: 8

4x Ethersworn Canonist (asymmetrical hardlock)
4x Erayo, Soratami Ascendant

Creatures: 24

4x Ornithopter
4x Arcbound Worker
4x Arcbound Ravager
4x Frogmite
4x Etherium Sculptor (sick for flipping Erayo)
4x Master of Etherium

Stuff: 10

3x Aether Vial
3x Springleaf Drum
4x Force of Will (yes, plz)

Lands: 18

2x Darksteel Citadel
4x Seat of the Synod
4x Ancient Den
4x Tundra
4x Ancient Tomb

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

@ AngryTroll

Black for Dark Confidant

Dark Confidant doesn't belong in affinity, especially given the new Shards cards.

Red for Fling and Atog, possibly Shrapnel Blast;

-Atog is now obsolete with MoE.
-Shrapnel blast > Fling

Red is less important to all versions of affinity as aggro-combo versions are more concerned about maximizing artifact counts and aggro-control versions need blue (and to some extent white).

I would not be surprised if two different versions of Affinity emerge as the best lists; one a version with Dreadnaught and one without it.

I'd be surprised to even see Dreadnought Affinity with the exception of few who have it as a pet deck. Dreadstill is just a better version of the deck in my testing.




peace,
4eak

[AngryTroll]

@ AngryTroll

Dark Confidant doesn't belong in affinity, especially given the new Shards cards.

But in the past (up until, oh, last week or so), he has seen considerable use in Affinity; hence the builds that use Dark Confidant. In fact, I would wager that the Dark Affinity build is the best build at the moment; that may change with Master of Etherium, but if it's the best Affinity build at the moment, it certainly shouldn't be dismissed because of an untested card that seems better.

-Atog is now obsolete with MoE.
-Shrapnel blast > Fling

Red is less important to all versions of affinity as aggro-combo versions are more concerned about maximizing artifact counts and aggro-control versions need blue (and to some extent white).

Hmm....not always. Fling is still solid in the Dreadnaught versions. And if you are running Fling, Atog is worth running. I've played versions with Atog and either 1R instant; it is not unreasonable to run UR affinity with Thoughtcast and Fling instead of Bob.

I'd be surprised to even see Dreadnought Affinity with the exception of few who have it as a pet deck. Dreadstill is just a better version of the deck in my testing.

@ Dreadstill: Yuck. Seriously.

I found AFfOWnity with Dreadnaughts to be fun, but rather inconstant. However, with more blue cards to run for Force, the deck may be more consistant, and more playable.

[The Rack]

As most things cost one or two, and sometimes three, this isn't a great deck for Counterbalance.

Doesn't Threshold only run 1cc, 2cc and 5 cc? It seems that if you put Top in the list the 4eak posted you could hit all kinds of numbers with counterbalance.

[AngryTroll]

Doesn't Threshold only run 1cc, 2cc and 5 cc? It seems that if you put Top in the list the 4eak posted you could hit all kinds of numbers with counterbalance.

Most things other decks run cost that much. That list runs only 4 things that cost 1; even with three or four tops, that isn't very hot.

[mercenarybdu]

I see lots of nice cards that give Affinity a Variety of cards to pick from rather than just the usual ones that has been floating around since 2004.

I have even decided to alter some of my own Affinity plan to see what I could do with the cards that are revealed going into the release of the initial set.