I agree...the major weakness with this entire deck in my experience is Team America and specifically Tombstalker and like creature removal, ie Diabolic Edict, etc
I took like 6th at the Binghamton Legacy this past weekend and didn't play any needles. I had answers to Deed/EE in the forms of CB-top and Krosan Grip.
And that is more than enough.
My sideboard from Tombstalker'ish decks was 2x Echoing Truth and 2x Gilded Drake...sadly I didn't really get to use either all day so I can't say whether or not they worked.
Im shocked that Randy Bhueller isn't more informed on deck names for legacy. Especially with everyone full well knowing the source IS the site for legacy you'd think people would know dreadstill and team america, or even team europe shit!!
I run 2 Needles in my board and they are really great although I'm probally going to go down to 1. The main usage of them isn't to stop Deed it's to stop Vial. That cards a serious problem for Dreadstill, way more then Deed.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Originally Posted by xsockmonkeyx
To J.V. and Shay:
How is Shay's list at the moment? The tweak you've made on the UGr list is doing something good? Is crucible a good card in the deck? What about MD grips and fire/ice? And most of all: How are the Shushers in sideboard?
Since I reintroduced Spell snare to my list, I feel like never take them off anymore.
PS: UGr is definitively a right list against control.
We're still kinda fiddling around with it, Likely Grip will be moved to the sideboard with the ever growing number of players playing Team America which has literally 0 targets and can't even be used as a good counterbalance flip. As for Fire/Ice it was so so so good for both of us at TMLO4. And on the topic of Crucible the card just Wrecks any control decks, it's ridiculous in the mirror, and it makes Stax decks a joke.
Team Hammafist
I was talking to Shay the other day about his list and took a similar list to the Binghamton tourney this past week. 4-0-2 through swiss, lost in top 8 to a Team America'ish deck.
my mainboard list cards that are debatable were
3x nought
2x daze
2x spell snare
2x fire/ice
2x krosan grip
the grips mainboard are definately losing value and absolutely horrible against team america and i'm not sure if they are worth mainboarding anymore
the 2x fire/ice were amazing all day for both fire and the ice
i don't run crucible mainboard, but i wish that i had, i also don't run trinket mage and that makes it hard to counterbalance cards with cc 3 as my only 3 mana cards are the 2 grips
i really wish this deck had a few more slots but i'm not sure what to cut...i want room for crucible, and i wish i had more daze and spell snare because they are just really awesome....at least early daze, maybe cut the dazes for more snares or other cards
the card i like the least in the deck is definately standstill...i wish there was a better card for that slot
The other thing that needle shuts down is Sensei's Divining Top. It hurts you but it hurts the other player more if they drop an SDT before you have one. You dropped one on my turn 1 top a couple of months ago and that bought you a win.
Krosan grip MD is certainly losing its value now as you said...TA is everywhere now and I can't see wanting dead mainboard cards against that deck. As I was saying to J.V. before Spell Snare >>>> Fire/Ice pretty much almost always. The fact it hits Tarmogoyf, and counterbalance alone already make it alot stronger. The list seems to be sacrificing alot of the control elements of Dreadstill which makes it potent for removal which isn't a bad approach, but Countermagic will almost always be stronger in alot of given situations.
Recommended changes
-2 Krosan Grip
-2 Fire/Ice
+1 Spell Snare
+3 Trinket Mage
Also, if you can find a way up your Daze count to at least 3. Trinket Mage is obviously broken for many reasons major reason being he tutors for our biggest threat and we all know how hard it can be to have Dreadnought to bail us out of horrible situations at times. Also, he's the most important 3cc cost card for CB dreadstill has. Spell Snare is nuts I'm probally going to try to up my count to 4.
Also @FoolofATook- That was pretty much luck that situation happened. The main reason I had it in there was for Deed but you're right...Needle can be useful like that sometimes.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Hi,
I tried a black splash for cards in main and a green splash for sideboard.
Here's my list:
Lands (21)
2 Usea
2 Tropicals
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Mishras Factory
3 Wasteland
5 Island
Creatures (10)
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket Mage
4 Dark Confidant
Spells (29)
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
2 Top
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Spell Snare
3 Daze
1 Crucible of Worlds
Sideboard (15)
3 Extirpate
1 Relic
3 Threads
4 Krosan Grip
1 Engineered Explosives
3 free slots(I dont know what i played last weekend)
I sometimes played goyfs in sideboard to stop aggro.
I dont know what i should play in this free slots.
Last weekend i played in a tournament of about 7 rounds with 18 players, nearly all players played really old lists of decks, did mistakes and so on.
I went 4-3.
1 round:
I played against an old red ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, with shocklands and lavamancer.
first game I resolved nought sitfle second turn, ye FoW me daze, he couldnt handle it -> 1-0
second game it was the whole shit...
I sideboarded 3 Threads and the Relic, put out 2 confis, 1 Trinket Mage and 1 Standstill (he played mishras....)
He started with top. I put Island to the table and said go.
He went on with mishra, lavamancer. I tried Balance he dazed, i forced he forced.
On his turn (my hand was full of lands..) he casted jitte, i thought "fuck off" because it would be gg except it would be a nought with following stifle on top so that i can win the beat.
I draw, and i wondered "Threads wow" i casted it on his lavamancer and he killed it in response, I passed and he went on with mishra jitte beat.
I draw and draw, crucible and lands.... --->skoop
sideboarding again, +2 Krosan Grip -1 Trickbind -1 Standstill
third game: I began with top, he too, i dazed it. I tried balance but he also had a daze.
He put 2 mancer on the table and passed again.
Next turn i played explosives and pulverised his 2 mancers, i thought i had the board advantage....
He untapped, played mishra and Sword of Fire/ice.... and i Had confi and spell snare on hand , perfect...
So i played a Confi a land and passed.
He put a mancer on the table and said go.
I revealed and it was a force...
put life count was ok he 16 and me 14 now.
next turn he equiped sword on mancer, and Fire/ice ->ice on confi. I Forced and he also forced, so the following was, he attacked me killed confi i draw lands and he won...
0-1(1-2)
Next Match was against Belcher, good matchup.
I won the roll and began with top and next turn nought and standstill
He played land grandt in his third turn after doing nothing and discarding. He searched for Taiga and went on rite of flame and manamorphose, I drew and spell snared manamorphose he skooped.
-1 Crucible -1 Trinket Mage +2 Extirpate
I mulliganed to 4 and kept a hand with force daze island and confi.
He tried the first round kill, i forced belcher.
Than I put confi on table in turn 2 and got 3 extra turns i drew nought stifle mishra and standstill, he tried warrens for 14 i stifled after drawing with standstill and forced the real spell. ->he skooped again.
1-1(3-2)
Next round was against a white ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh with enforcer and so on, first game he sworded 2 of my noughts and i killed 3 of his goyfs with an explosives after i got on 4 life. I began to beat with my mishra, he only draw lands.
1-0
second game i forced his goyf and hhis balance and his force , he got very angry ^^ and i played confidant and he lost of the following nought out of the confi.
2-0
2-1(5-2)
Now i played against Ichorid.
I kept a good hand without force, he began with an very good first round kill after hard lucking with dredging....
0-1
+3 Extirpate +1 Relic -4 Standstill
Second game ended very fast as the first one.
Mulligan on 4
I kept 3 lands and crucible, I went on with drawing lands.
He goldfished me on turn 4.
2-2(5-4)
Fourth round was against Affinity:
It was a bad version with Islands and without good things I always had second round nought with daze and force left on hand, he had no chance in both games.
3-2(7-4)
next round i played a short game against merfolk. I was screwed both games --> he won.
3-3 (7-6)
Last game was against an selfmade deck , WBG. with trinisphere, many P-walkers and goyfs, stops in Sideboard
I tell it short, first game he was flooded, second game i was screwed and third game he was flooded again. It wasnt really nice.
4-3(9-7)
I was 6th place at end, I won nothing, only the first three got an prize.
first was goblins
second Dredge
and third where merfolks
It was a nice tournament with sympathic players(except the merfolk player).
Good location and many players who want to have fun.
Please tell me your opinion of the list and maybe you have some suggestions for the sideboard.
Elvish-Champion
So what are everyone's thoughts on SB moon effects here? As a two-of against decks that have the potential to abuse standstill better than you (siding out standstill of course) it's been really strong, and I run it in Ur. But I haven't had much luck with it in the Ugr version, as it just shuts off too many threats. Is this about what you all have seen too?
Also, I've been having magus STP'd/creature removal'd a little too frequently. I honestly think 2x blood moon might be stronger than 2x magus since Kgrip is almost always cast off a dual in my experience.
EDIT: also: crucible. I've been moving towards 2x MB with great success; it's just that game breaking against control. but once again, it doesn't play well with magus and they're both good against the same matchups. I don't think they can be run together effectively. Thoughts?
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
At least in Ugr builds, Crucible > Moons, possibly all builds. IMO, Crucible is kinda like Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon combined in one card, in that Crucible beats on non-basics and gives you a creature in the form of Mishra's Factory. The only problem is that it does these functions slowly. Not a problem against Landstill, but much less of a beating against Thresh and TA, but still pretty good. I would run it.
Running Blood Moon gives you very few win cons under Standstill though. Unless, of course you can get a Nought to stick, in which case you should be winning. Crucible is a bomb under Standstill, though. I would just run that.
Yeah, just run crucible.
Have you tested Magus against Team America? I'm assuming it would be retardedly good consider they don't run a single basic in their entire deck. It automatically shuts down everything they have if it sticks...seems like a damn good answer for an otherwise even matchup.
Also MoTM>Blood Moon for the simple fact if they attack you with a creature and you need your manlands you can always jump block with Magus to get back your Factories. Blood Moon you won't be able to do that.
UR Dreadstill creator and BRx WGD Combo Pioneer
Yeah, I'm leaning towords crucible and the 3c build since goyf IS the best removal in the format.
A resolved moon > a resolved crucible against TA. They have literally NO answers to it aside from countering it. That matchup's the reason I was trying to make moon work.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
The Team America matchup is certainly a nightmare. I've been trying to think of ways to improve that matchup too, but I'm drawing a blank. Basically, it comes down to Tombstalker or no, since you have no answers to that other than bounce or racing. And oftentimes, bounce and racing just don't cut it. (EDIT: Wallop is svg tech.)
This is completely unrelated, but what are the Landstill matchups like? Is UWx more favorable than Ugbw? What's the key to winning these matchups?
Against TA:
1- You have more counters than them. If you always let 1 mana open, they only have 4 force of will. It might be hard to do because of their LD, but 2 things might be considered in regard of that. 1: You also have a good disrupt against him. 2: Playing Spell snare is very good.
So playing arounds this fact. Don't waste your counters, always be aware of the Tomstalker and let your dreadnought in your hand as long as you cannot back it very well.
2- Key cards are exceptional against him:
->Counterbalance. If you are able to resolve it, and keep a counter for Tomstalker, it's GG.
->Standstill. They will break it, you'll have the advantage of counters.
->Spell snare. Keep mana open. Don't let you disrupt and snare their Sinkholes.
3- In your land disrupt strategy, try to do not let it him have 2 seas(
4- Keep your brainstorms for Thoughtseize
For my experience, this MU is around 55/45 or even 60/40 in our favour. I really like facing them even thought it's hard. I faced the deck only once in a tournament and won the game, it's really not that bad.
Against Landstill:
This MU is kinda harder. Your standstill is irrevelant, their Crucible is really good.
The best build to face them is, I think, UGW list with Meddling mages and Krosan grips in sideboard. But if you play a red version, go straight for REB's.
Some strategies against UWb:
1- Keep a wasteland for Dustbowl.
2- Do not let resolve Crucible of Worlds
3- Keep your grip for Humility
4- Meddling mage in order: Swords, Wrath, EE or even Counterspell could be good.
5- Try to have Counterbalance, it's a must. When you have it in play, be aware of Cunning Wish, they will probably get Return to dust, which you can't trigger by CB.
Some strategies against 4c:
Same cards: Meddling mage, Krosan grip.
1- Keep your stifles and trickbind for EE & Deed.
2- Keep your wastelands for their manlands
3- Do not let resolves Crucible of worlds or get your Grip on it as fast as you can.
I think it's a bit easier than UWb, but it really depends.
Those one are probably 45/55 in their favor.
Against landstill, the one little techy card I found was LftL. It's as good as crucible in this matchup and essentially uncounterable and unremovable. Sadly, having G in its casting costs makes it not an option for many builds.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
What do you think about deed in SB in the UGB version?
EE is better and costs less. Grip takes care of pesky artifacts and enchants, you can counter mostly everything else with CB+Top and your counters. It's kinda shitty if you have to blow up you own Nought (since you really lose 3 cards [Nought, Stifle, Deeds]). idk. That's my $.02.
The uber svg tech against TA...
...
Divert.
Divert owns TA so badly it's not even funny - misdirecting Sinkholes, Thoughtseizes, Snuff Outs, Forces - the cost benefit ratio is incredible.
Worst case scenarion, you pitch it to FOW.
Divert is more of a meta SB choice though.
If your local regulars play lots of Deadguy (Vindicate, Sinkhole, Hymn... ), TA, Burn, and other decks with more than 5-6 misdirectable targets, I'd definitely suggest trying it out and mind fucking everyone.
I've done some testing on it and came to the obvious conclusion, that's it's at its best when paired with maximum LD, meaning: 2 Trickbind, 4 Wastelands (maybe even SB Crypt), so it'll work till the early lategame.
Naturally, Divert would take those 3 REB slots, since it functions as a one mana >>counter any counterspell<<, too.
Discuss.
So should I better play discard?
It isn't a good idea because you want to do something different than thoughtseize or duress in first round like brainstorm or top, and in your next turns they are dead cards. balance nought stifle and so on .
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