Which version of the deck is more popular? Tempo or combo?
Which version of the deck is better suited against aggro?
Can the combo version of this deck beat burn at all?
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
Depends. Overall Tempo is by far the most played red version of the deck at the moment. But in some metas there is a glaring absence of Tempo Threshold. Its not because the deck isn't good, people don't seem to like Tempo Thresh, don't see its strengh. I don't know.Originally Posted by undone
Depends on the aggro list. Balance is usually a beating against aggro decks but Tempo Thresh has enough burn as well an no clunky setup. Against Goblins Tempo Thresh is the shit.
As most aggro plays red at the moment SB Hydroblasts will help.
Repeat after me: Top and Balance will keep me out of trouble
I found it harder to win against Burn with Tempo Thresh than with Swan Thresh. But I consider the Burn matchup in Thresholds favor, granted you play 3-4 Hydroblasts SB.
TS Crew
I am mainly a standard and extended player and am interested into making the jump into legacy. There is a Grand Prix in the local area in January and I am hoping to scrounge up funds to build this deck to play at GP events. I just had a few questions.
Is this the best version of this deck?
Why no love for Quirion Dryad?
Is nimble mongoose really that good?
Does someone have a skeleton of the deck?
Going into an unknown meta but expectng the best of the best seeing as it is a GP is there a correct sideboard?
If I can't scrounge up enough money for real dual will the Rav duals hinder the deck into unplayability?
Thanks for the help that I assume I will receive!
It can't be said as every build has got it's advantages and disadvantages. Even a build that seems optimal such as Hatfield's 5color Thresh has got a weakness (in this case the huge vulnerability to Blood Moon, B2B and recurring Wastelands).
Because it comes into play as a shabby 1/1 and has to be grown. This either forces you to spare your cantrips or to play 4 of them. But since they are a shabby topdeck and can't trade with other creatures in a early state, they suck.Why no love for Quirion Dryad?
It's a 3/3 untouchable beater. The Shroud ability is still underestimated by a lot of people. But since they have Shroud, they can't be handled by removal and therefore are good blockers against Goblins or other Aggrodecks and very good attackers against controldecks.Is nimble mongoose really that good?
4 MongooseDoes someone have a skeleton of the deck?
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Tropical Island
6-7 Fetchlands
And the rest is a matter of the splash and concept you choose, like:
Wasteland + Stifle <-> Counterbalance + Sensei's Divining Top
Burn <-> Swords to Plowshares
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Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
The best thing to do if you want to get into legacy and don't really know anything about the format is to start a thread in the community section of the website instead in the decks to beat thread.
This thread is mainly used to offer suggestions on the particular archtype that the thread is about.
~Shriek~
I'm also concerned about the aggro-MU. Not necessarily Goblins, because they are less present than they used to be, and because Thresh/r has quite a bunch of removal spells and numerous ways to deal with 1st turn Lackey (12 on the draw, even more on the play!).
What I mean is
a) other tribes, such as Merfolk (annyoing with Islandwalk), but also
b) (Domain-)Zoo, which I meet more and more often.
So far I have been working with 2 SB-solutions.
First, Engineered Explosives, which are also nice to get rid of opponents' Tarmogoyfs and also hit non-creature stuff (Counterbalance, Chalice etc.). The disadvantage is that you also hit your own cards, and in the balanced version you play lots of permanents.
The second experiment was Pyroclasm, which is more universal vs small critters with various mana-costs, synergizes with your own Swans (!), but which doesn't help vs X/3 stuff like Wild Nacatl, Kird Ape and the like.
Several of my opponents suggested Firespout in this slot. Only costs one mana more, has more reach, and can be directed situationally (e.g. let our own Mongoose live while killing all Faeries etc) with our colors.
Possible?
"My sky is darker than thine!"
SENTENCED - 1993
I know that I will be playing burn over StP. However going into GP events which do you deem better stifle/wasteland or countertop? Is it impossible to play both Countertop and stifle/waste?
No clue, but theoretically speaking, I'd never to it as it mixes up 2 concepts which are contradictory to each other.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I was wondering if a Tempo Thresh player could elaborate some advantages that red Tempo Thresh has over Team America. The obvious difference would be the burn of course, but that seems to be the only angle one could make an argument in favour of red Thresh in terms of being a better tempo deck.
Burn providing reach, running more Counterspells so that you are able to play the control role better instead of straight tempo all the time, Nimble Mongoose is better than Tombstalker against Control for the most part, Pyroclasm against Goblins, Red Blasts out of the side against blue decks, universal answers game one in the form of bounce spells.
If you're having any trouble with Team America in your metagame, just sideboard Submerge. It's very solid against other Goyf.decs as well.
Team Rehab- We Keep Coming Back For More
Team Blitzkrieg- Swagga.
Storm Boards
This wins matches. Burn is just so amazing against almost everything either winning goyf battles or making it irrelavent that your opponent just stabilized.
Tempo Thresh also doesn't care as much about a resolved magus because it doesn't shut off our removal. Kinda helps it, really.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
Question for the Tempo Thresh players: if you open up a hand containing Ponder and Stifle, do you play the Ponder or keep mana open for Stifle? What about a hand with Mongoose and Stifle? What factors contribute to your decision?
Stifle.
Always always always always always always. Unless you're playing against something that doesn't play fetches like Wombat.
Team Rehab- We Keep Coming Back For More
Team Blitzkrieg- Swagga.
Storm Boards
I play the ponder, unless I'm assuming my opponent is very inexperienced. He will never use his first turn fetch while you have an untapped island anyways, and then you just skipped a turn for noting. The ponder will provide your second land drop (possibly a wasteland for his first land), free counters, or a mongoose to play turn 2, then still with a mana open.
I played NQG/r with Counterbalance for the last few tournaments (currently 14-1-0 in the last three tournaments). I started playing Swans Thresh and didn't like the combo package very much and I think the red Balance variant of Grow isn't getting enough attention here =)
So my list:
2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
2 Island
1 Forest
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Trygon Predator
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Engineered Explosives
-3 Price of Progress
-1 Krosan Grip
-4 Blue Elemental Blast
-3 Red Elemental Blast
-4 Pyroclasm
First off all: Why play this over any other Thresh build?
-Counterbalance is really a powerhouse!
-It's less clunky than Swan Thresh
-The red SB is just incredibly good (the only reson why I like this over the white build)
-Counterbalance
-The manabase is pretty solid
-Maindeck Predator are really nice
-Freaking Counterbalance, man =)
The big disadvantage is obviously the lack of Swords (or any hard removal really), but in my opinion the great SB makes up for it. I also don't like the manabases of the various 4/5C Thresh build with Aggro Loam beeing pretty popular here and a stable manabase beeing worth gold.
Enough with all the bragging, here come the questions:
For me the open slots in this deck are the two EE and the third Predict. Does anybody have a proposition, which cards to put in these slots? I already toyed around with Threads of Disloyality, F/I and Magma Jet and have never been quite satisfied. The cards should ideally have CC 2, for Counterbalance purposes.
Sneaky Pirates of Doom - Not really a Legacy Team anymore.
I'm no Threshold player, and this might just be a small nitpick:-4 Blue Elemental Blast
-3 Red Elemental Blast
Why do people play ye olde Blasts over Pyroblast and Hydroblast? The fact that Pyroblast and Hydroblast can target permanents that aren't a specific color should make them strictly better since you can get an advantage when facing random decks with cards that dies when they get targeted. What is the advantage of running the old blasts? I just don't get it.
"You're English is terrible and inconsistent."
-DownSyndromeKarl
Hmm cool deck.
Some questions:
-Have you considered/do you miss spell snare?
-When you say the SB makes up for the lack of hard removal, how do you mean? All I see is blasts and pyroclasm, which are all limited in their own way.
-Price of progress? Interesting, but can you please motivate?
-Only one krosan grip?
I don't really have any answer to your question, but if the lack of removal is something that's bothering you, try the good old all purpose bounce-spells. Rushing river and Wipe away, or even boomerang if you want it to be cmc2. Or perhaps counterspell?
I actually haven't considert it. In my opinion an optimized CB curve is the decks strongest weapon and therefore I'm only looking in the CC2 slot at the moment.
It's mostly the mass aggro MUs, that Thresh usually struggles with (Goblins, Elfes, Affinity,...) and Pyroclasm is just a monster there. That's what I meant when I said the SB is making up for the inferior maindeck (compared to Thresh/w).
Due to the lack of Swords I had a hard time to deal tha last points of damage to Aggro Loam (once one of their heavy critters hit the table, you're in trouble) and PoP serves this purpose just perfectly. It's also nuts against 43 Land.dec (a bad MU) and various Tendrils builds (especially if they rely on Ad Nauseam).
Yeah, once I moved the Predators to the maindeck I constantly reduced the number of Grips in the board. That one is a little random, I just don't have an idea of which card I'd rather have in that slot.
This is an interessting thought. It is a good lategame spell (which Thresh is lacking). In the early game on the other hand, you don't have the mana most of the time.
Sneaky Pirates of Doom - Not really a Legacy Team anymore.
Yes, it really is. My most freqently played deck right now is the typical tempo thresh deck, with two counterspells instead of bounce. I made that change because I found it really valueable to be able to counter anything that would stop my clock (target my goyf), and not only bounce blockers. Since your deck is less tempo oriented I suppose you might find you don't have the same need of it, since you probably have a CB active at that point. Still though...
The price of progress is really neat, I might consider that in my SB as well.
Has any one tested with UGR threshold tempo againts Team America and Dreadstill ? thoughts ?
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