[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[konsultant]

Can i ask why did you remove humility when you add vindicate? it was a card i wanted to see agains every aggro and aggro control matchup

The problem with Humility isn't that Humility isn't good enough, in fact i've won tournaments because of it, the problem is Krosan Grip. You can't afford to have Grip target's it give's anybody running Grip a huge advantage over you. I've even given up on Crucible whitch was a long time staple of mine just because of Krosan Grip. Crucible is still feasable but I wouldn't run it without Academy Ruins at this point.

It wasn't Vindicate that replaced Humility it was the Plainswalkers that replaced Humility. The Vindicate's replaced Disenchant/Wish as a more versatile removal spell.

Humility is still viable but I would run it in the SB and only board it in if you don't think your opponent has Grip. Perhaps if you go to game 3 I might try sneaking them in against Thresh.

[Irish_Mafia]

The problem with Humility isn't that Humility isn't good enough, in fact i've won tournaments because of it, the problem is Krosan Grip. You can't afford to have Grip target's it give's anybody running Grip a huge advantage over you. I've even given up on Crucible whitch was a long time staple of mine just because of Krosan Grip. Crucible is still feasable but I wouldn't run it without Academy Ruins at this point.

It wasn't Vindicate that replaced Humility it was the Plainswalkers that replaced Humility. The Vindicate's replaced Disenchant/Wish as a more versatile removal spell.

Humility is still viable but I would run it in the SB and only board it in if you don't think your opponent has Grip. Perhaps if you go to game 3 I might try sneaking them in against Thresh.

Can you post an updated list of your deck?

[konsultant]

Can you post an updated list of your deck?

I won the last 2 events I entered with the exact list that is posted a few pages back. Even with only losing one round in 2 events I have a couple tweaks in mind but I'm saving them for the GP.

[Viscosity]

The problem with Humility isn't that Humility isn't good enough, in fact i've won tournaments because of it, the problem is Krosan Grip. You can't afford to have Grip target's it give's anybody running Grip a huge advantage over you. I've even given up on Crucible whitch was a long time staple of mine just because of Krosan Grip. Crucible is still feasable but I wouldn't run it without Academy Ruins at this point.

It wasn't Vindicate that replaced Humility it was the Plainswalkers that replaced Humility. The Vindicate's replaced Disenchant/Wish as a more versatile removal spell.

Humility is still viable but I would run it in the SB and only board it in if you don't think your opponent has Grip. Perhaps if you go to game 3 I might try sneaking them in against Thresh.

That s exactly why I don't run Humility. A Gripped crucible is one thing, but a gripped humility means they now swing at you with their critters.. ouch! Humility is very strong against some matches, but you become dependent on it sticking in play. I'd much rather clear the board and spot remove subsequent threats. I also agree that vindicate is just better than cunning wish. I played a lot of cunning with LS and it is just too damn slow.

On the crucible; I love them. My deck has more synergy with crucible though, due to mox diamond, city of traitors, and academy. 2nd turn crucible is just good, especially with a wasteland...

They grip crucible -- I use academy to get it back. They must kill both academy and crucible at once, but often by the time that can be pulled off, I draw into another crucible, and pull academy back into play. Krosan grip has a hard time handling it.

[Viscosity]

It is actually staggering how many people do not understand that you can manipulate EE in this fashion... I crush a lot of threshold players just b/c they cannot hit EE w/ cc of 3+ consistently.

yes. I actually didn't even think about it until someone pointed it out in a tournament a while back. now it is my favorite removal. I find casting cost to be quite significant in the current meta. The ability to manipulate EEs casting cost while keeping the removal targets what you want, is VERY powerful. Plus the X makes you able to grab it with tolaria west, etc..

EE is extremely useful.

For anyone who didn't get it: if you cast EE using 2 blue, one white, and one colorless.. The converted casting cost is "4" but it blows up everything that costs "2". GG counterbalance

[rockout]

I won the last 2 events I entered with the exact list that is posted a few pages back. Even with only losing one round in 2 events I have a couple tweaks in mind but I'm saving them for the GP.

:-( >sniff< >sniff<

My tweak was running tombstalker as another win condition. Cats out of the bag.

[from Cairo]

My tweak was running tombstalker as another win condition. Cats out of the bag.

Does the deck really need more win conditions? I feel like with 3-4 Factory, 1-3 DoJ, 0-2 Eternal Dragon and 0-2 Elspeth, there's alot of good options that all add something in addition to being threats (ie the ability to produce mana, cycle when not needed as threats or in addition). I guess Espeth doesn't really do much other than be a threat, it can draw attention away from damaging the LS player though, I suppose people aiming burn at Tombstalker does this too though.

It would just seem like the more win cons you add to the deck the more it moves toward being agro-control, rather than a mid-late game, control deck.

[Mister Agent]

Ever since grip was printed I never seem to really like Humility all that much either. I mean aggro-control players can just time walk you right out of the game if they nail your Humility with Krosan Grip in response to you playing standstill. Especially when they already have active threats on the field. Humility is only a proactive sweeper when you have manlands and decree of justice at the forefront. Unfortunately, this proactive sweeper strategy via Humility is on a thin rope when Krosan Grip suddenly becomes involved.

You won't fall into the same trap as easily with Vindicates opening more avenues for you to play standstill. Vindicates is quite good against just about anything including aggro-control variants.

[Citrus-God]

You can always play Humilities maindeck and then board them out post board. Humilities are only in the maindeck to steal games, so boarding them out makes sense.

[rockout]

It's ok Bardo. I knew it was going to get deleted. I just had to go for it.

When I used to play Humility, I was too focused on sticking it then starting my game. I would dig, dig, dig solely to find and resolve Humility because it was the end all game breaker that I wanted. I remember going back to the drawing board when my Humility got EOT'd gripped with a dreadnought on the board. Now that I've played with vindicate, I can't see myself going back to Humility unless it's out of the board as a two of.

[mossivo1986]

I guess ive never had the krosan grip time walk problem. I usually solve the threats in play then play the soft lock on creatures if you will.

[from Cairo]

I guess ive never had the krosan grip time walk problem. I usually solve the threats in play then play the soft lock on creatures if you will.

Yea I tend to do the same with Humility. After resolution I still work on controlling the board as much as possible, Humility just makes controlling it alot easier, making DoJs into instant speed Wrath of Gods + cantrip, and with Factorys owning the red zone. It seems like a mistake to rely on it too much though, like to drop a Standstill if my opponent has Humilitied 1/1s and 2G available, post board that seems like asking for trouble.

Some of the match ups that its especially good against don't even have Krosan Grip, like Merfolk or Rb Goblins. Or like in Rgb Goblins, post board they have Engineered Plague in addition to Humility to worry about so that's 5-6 threats to deal with with 3-4 answers; and their draw engine sends their Grips to the bottom of the library, while mine will be getting them to hand.

I admit though that Humility may be a crutch of sorts that with more time playing the deck I will find its not really a card that's pulling its weight, but so far I've always been pleased with a UWb Humility build.

I'm playing Vindicate as well though, I agree that most of the time I was Wishing for a Disenchant effect, so Vindicate covers that and much more, it seems like a very good replacement.

[Viscosity]

Played a 4 round swiss legacy event tonight and split for first with UW landstill again.

Round one: Aggro Loam 2-1
Round two: Survival madness 2-0
Round three: Vial Goblins 2-1
Round four: Its The Fear - split for first (favor to my deck but we were tired)

Both losses were due to bad mana draws that I should have mulled. Live and learn. So far in the events, the deck has placed 1st, 4th, 1st. With the 4th place being directly related to player error.

[Genericcactus]

Ok guys, first time poster, but long time reader on this thread. I've been playing U/W or U/W/b Landstill for about 8 months now, and have competed in several small (15-20 ppl), but very competitive tourneys (NoVa crowd). I've done as best as third, and here is my current list.

Land:
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted delta
4x Tundra
1x Underground Sea
1x Scrubland
3x Island
2x Plains
1x Dustbowl
1x Tolaria West
1x Academy Ruins
4x Mishra's Factory

Body:
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
4x Counterspell
3x Fact or Fiction
2x Humility
2x Wrath of God
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Sensei's Diving Top

Win:
2x Decree of Justice
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant

Sideboard:
4x Counterbalance
4x Meddling Mage
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Hydroblast
2x Engineered Plague

Card choices worth noting: I agree with a lot of the discussion in the 4-color Landstill forum about the strengths of running Top maindeck and CB in the board. As a first turn drop Top makes Standstill so much better. It ensures land drops, and along with fetches, helps your early draws. Counterbalance makes our best matchups worse and or worst matchups better. Sounds like it deserves a sideboard slot to me.

Questions: How good is Vindicate? Is it necessary to play Vindicate if I run Counter-Top? Is Wasteland just more powerful than Dust Bowl? If so, should I play Crucible?

Also, do you think that it is worth playing Divert in the sideboard? It destroys both Team America and ANT. It also helps against burn.

[Viscosity]

nice list!

I tested vindicate tonight and prefered to keep it out of MY deck. I love crucible.. I play two and it seems just right. I also like EE. If you raised the EE count to 3, and crucible to 2, you'd be seeing alot more recurring EEs.

As far as vinidicate to go with counterbalance, just think about what decks you put the Cb in against, do they have bombs that cost 3 or is it more about countering 1s and 2s?


Divert is nice. I played 2 on my board for a while. I don't think it deserves a slot though as it is very condtional, both on the decks that it playss against as well as pulling it off. You are diverting chant/duress right? because it does not work against tendrils.

[from Cairo]

Divert is nice. I played 2 on my board for a while. I don't think it deserves a slot though as it is very condtional, both on the decks that it playss against as well as pulling it off. You are diverting chant/duress right? because it does not work against tendrils.

Duress can't be diverted either, except in a game with 3+ people, its target opponent.

[raharu]

Duress can't be diverted either, except in a game with 3+ people, its target opponent.

Know that Thoughtseize can, though, and some combo builds will be playing it over Duress still (even ANT) because it can pull Hate-Bears.

[Genericcactus]

Divert is nice. I played 2 on my board for a while. I don't think it deserves a slot though as it is very condtional, both on the decks that it playss against as well as pulling it off. You are diverting chant/duress right? because it does not work against tendrils.

In the combo matchup I would hit Chant. Divert is also very good against Team America. Misdirecting a Thoughtseize or Sinkhole can pretty much be game over for them.

I board in Counterbalance against ANT, Burn, Goyf-Sligh, and Threshold. It almost single handedly fixes those match-ups without me having to devote space to cards that are more limited in scope (read: Ajani).

[Viscosity]

Duress can't be diverted either, except in a game with 3+ people, its target opponent.

good point . The divert is very MEh against ANT then. They can simply duress your FoW, cast AN, and win. I've used it on my board, and I had a couple spectacular plays with it, BUt I felt that spellsnare would of come in more often and been just as useful. And I don't even like spellsnare that much on my board.

Divert shines in the matchup vs black. Sinkhole or Hymn can be GG. also, it is useful in counter wars. I think that it is a reasonable choice and that each person should decide to use it or not depending on their meta.

I have trouble with the 15 card sideboard slots not being enough, haha. In fact, that is where my deck needs the most improvement. I'm leaning toward my third color being black. It was red for a while, but I'm liking the engineered plagues on my board right now; Merfolk, Gobby, Elf, Sliver, Ichorid.

The other option is using green for grip, arg! i can't figure out my board!

It changes daily...

What do you guys think of this list? I'm squeezing 2 tops into the MD.

Card----------------------Opponent Deck
3 Counterbalance----------combo, burn, loam, etc.
3 tormod's crypt-----------loam, ichorid, survival, etc.
3 Chalice------------------combo, burn, etc.
3 Meddling Mage-----------combo, loam, LOTS of DECKS
3 Krosan Grip--------------Counterbalance.deck, Pithing Needle, dreadnought, survival

[3duece]

I think that's a solid board. The only thing missing is blue blasts. Even in 3 color, blood moon effects can cripple you and being able to fetch an island with a blast in hand is very strong.