[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Elf_Ascetic]

I agree. Hopefully I'll be lucky enough to swords a Progenitus. That is my next goal as a Landstill player.

A friend of mine forced his opponent to block Mishra's Factory so his Progenitus died.

(2 life left, Humility in play)


What are the thoughts about Academy ruins? I like the card combined with 2-3 EE and a Crucible, but I really hate the colorless mana it produces..

A typical landstillmanabase would look like this:

5-6 fetchland
4-5 basics
4-7-8 duals
3-4 factorys
0-3 wasteland
0-1 dust bowl
0-1 academy ruins
0-1 tolaria west.
0-2 Eternal Dragons

I'm currently on 24: 6 fetch, 5 basics, 7 duals, 1 dust bowl, 1 dragon, 4 factory.

Would Ruins be good in a meta where control is almost absent?

[FredMaster]

Lol. That ain't SpeedStill.
One of SpeedStill's trademarks is the heavy black splash (incl. 3 Vindicates, %% Chalice, CB).

I am aware of that.
The point I was making is that Speedstill has very similiar problems with Counterbalance as the list you posted.

Was it so hard to understand?

Damn that was THE example for irony not working online...again.

@ Elf_Ascetic:
I don't think that single Dust Bowl is worth it, if you can't tutor it up.
Plus if control isn't a factor in your meta, how about just cutting it?
You aren't screwing anyone with that one card.

I like Academy Ruins a lot for the lock it creates / overkill with Crypt postboard. I guess it is not totally necessary but if there are no heavy loads of landdestruction in your meta, I'd run it.

[3duece]

So I'm coming back to 3 color after a long time with 4c, I'm just sick of the manabase issues. I cobbled this build together and I think it looks promising but any help would be much appreciated.

4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 tundra
1 tropical island
1 savannah
2 island
2 plains
4 mishra's factory
1 tolaria west
1 academy ruins
1 dust bowl

4 standstill
4 brainstorm
2 fact or fiction
4 counterspell
4 force of will
3 spell snare

4 swords to plowshares
3 wrath of god
2 engineered explosives
2 decree of justice
1 eternal dragon
1 relic of projenitus
1 humility
1 crucible of worlds
1 enlightened tutor

I guess it's a bit old school without elspeth or vindicate, so let me know what you think.

[klaus]

So I'm coming back to 3 color after a long time with 4c, I'm just sick of the manabase issues. I cobbled this build together and I think it looks promising but any help would be much appreciated.

4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 tundra
1 tropical island
1 savannah
2 island
2 plains
4 mishra's factory
1 tolaria west
1 academy ruins
1 dust bowl

4 standstill
4 brainstorm
2 fact or fiction
4 counterspell
4 force of will
3 spell snare

4 swords to plowshares
3 wrath of god
2 engineered explosives
2 decree of justice
1 eternal dragon
1 relic of projenitus
1 humility
1 crucible of worlds
1 enlightened tutor

I guess it's a bit old school without elspeth or vindicate, so let me know what you think.

-1 Relic (it cycles without any impact in many games = SB material)
-1 Decree of Justice (you wanna draw it late game only, and Elspeth is teh nutz!)
- 1 Dragon (you don't need him with Elses you almost never get to time)
-2 Counterspell you just don't need that many
+2 Elspeth
+1 Krosan Grip
+2 Sensei's Divining Top (that guy wins games)
-
Just my 2 pence..

[mossivo1986]

-1 Relic (it cycles without any impact in many games = SB material)
-1 Decree of Justice (you wanna draw it late game only, and Elspeth is teh nutz!)
- 1 Dragon (you don't need him with Elses you almost never get to time)
-2 Counterspell you just don't need that many
+2 Elspeth
+1 Krosan Grip
+2 Sensei's Divining Top (that guy wins games)
-
Just my 2 pence..

as a 1 of you are right on relic. But if he plays it with a wish package he should absolutely love it. The utilitiy that two wish two relic gives you is actually quite impressive. The only thing I really don't like is the green splash, but thats just personal opinion. I believe you can't play 3c currently without 3 EP in the board.

[3duece]

So...black splash then? My impression of e.plague when I played 4c is that it's more of a speedbump against the 8 lord decks. I just figured grip might be more valuable as a sideboard option. I already tried elspeth on mws and I wasn't a huge fan honestly, I know people have mixed feelings on her but I just wasn't blown away. I do, however, really like the idea of top, especially since it gives me even more to do under a standstill. Is maindeck relic really no good? I play no grave effects accept a lone crucible, it seems great against goyf/stalker/terravore type decks, keep them off burning wish and they can't really win. I don't know, I'll test some more. I miss deed already.

[klaus]

I miss deed already.

Play 3 EEs & 3 Vindicates and you should be all set.

[konsultant]

I have to disagree with you here: Brainstorm is the best draw spell in Legacy, and I'd go as far as claiming "regardless of the resp. archetype, as long as the deck provides 5+ fetches". What you say about BS being awesome in the mid-game when paired with a fetch land is true but stating it's not a mana fixer in the early game boarders on blasphemy..
Compared to decks packing Ponder (aka. BS 5-8) BS becomes even more crucial as a mana fixer (regardless of the overall land count, LS needs more land online than those ponder.decs anyway).
The ideal LS starting 7 consist of 3 land 4 other rather low-costed cards [allowing you to comfortably reach the mid-game]. Well, more often than not we end up with 2-land-hands, praying for good topdecks. Quite frequently Brainstorm functions as earlygame land drop #3 and consequently as land 24-27/25-28, which is fantastic.
-
Many U-control players misplay BS as an early-game manafixer, though.
Say they made their 2nd land drop (no fetchies among them), having no more land in hand but a BS - I'd say 90% would go BS @ the end of their opp's turn, regardless of what else they're holding. I won't go in depth here because it's not the appropriate post for this, but playing that BS in turn let's you see one more card and thus increases the chance of making that vital 3rd land drop quite a bit.
-
Being able to shuffle those Decrees and Elses and Wraths etc away between turn 2-4 is slick tech, too.

Anyway, I'd run 7 if I could.

The Brainstorm thing is a very situational issue, in certain situations and in certain builds of Landstill it is better or worse. In the current build I have up there I strongly favor the 3rd Spellsnare over the 4th Brainstorm. I've explained my approach and reasonings for this strategy and I stand by the desicion to only run 3 in my build.

Builds of Landstill that aren't as redundent as mine would probably be better off with the 4th Brainstorm. I don't go for the tool box approach I simply go for the steady inevitable win and my list is very well set up to do just that.

It's funny that the Landstill thread gets split and we still have 2 different builds of Landstill evolving in the same thread. Traditional U/W style builds and the newer "Speedstill" approach to the deck. Unfortunatly having 2 very different decks in the same thread creates confusion when getting down to card choices and reasonings. I would never cut the Brainstorm from Klaus's list but it is irrelivent when cut from my list. This is something to consider when looking at people's perspective and their advice.

[mossivo1986]

So...black splash then? My impression of e.plague when I played 4c is that it's more of a speedbump against the 8 lord decks. I just figured grip might be more valuable as a sideboard option. I already tried elspeth on mws and I wasn't a huge fan honestly, I know people have mixed feelings on her but I just wasn't blown away. I do, however, really like the idea of top, especially since it gives me even more to do under a standstill. Is maindeck relic really no good? I play no grave effects accept a lone crucible, it seems great against goyf/stalker/terravore type decks, keep them off burning wish and they can't really win. I don't know, I'll test some more. I miss deed already.

Personally I live and die by my list, but you already knew that.

[Master Shake]

I agree. Hopefully I'll be lucky enough to swords a Progenitus. That is my next goal as a Landstill player.

Personally, it was a great feeling for me to block a Progenitus with a soldier token [and kill it, obviously.]

[Ectoplasm]

So how about humility? It seems like alot of people still play it, though I dont really like it anymore since it turns you into the reactive player, getting shafted by shit like krosan grip while your opponent just bides his time, setting up his game to the point where you just get destroyed by a bunch of goblin piledrivers you considered vanilla 1/1's until your opponent decided to actually make a move.

I don't know. It seems like a great card, but it feels like you're setting yourself up to be on the receiving end of legendary plays, instead of delivering them yourself.

[3duece]

I think that is sometimes a valid concern. However, in my experience the destruction of humility plays out in two ways. One, the opponent deals with it quickly before mounting a generous offense, allowing you to use spot removal and decree to deal with what he has. Two, the opponent takes the turns necessary to mount an offense while you draw tons of cards. He grips your humility but you either have a decree in hand or elspeth down (I don't play her, but still thinking about it). You block and survive, untap, and wrath. I know that sounds like a narrow situation but it actually plays out like that fairly often. Or, of course, you beat in with factories/decree tokens and win before they can handle it.

[Omega]

Humility is still great against decks that do not run Krosan Grip

I still consider it as a major bomb. Left unanswered, you usually win the game. My list also run Crucible of Worlds. I prefer my opponent using their Grip on Humility than on COW

Robert

[GGoober]

Here are my problems with UW Landstill today.

Is it me or Landstill simply dies to Moon Effects? My opponent is a good Dragonstompy player and he runs a list with three Trinisphere, 4 Magus, 3 Blood Moon all MD, together with Chalice @1. The only games that I've won are: either I went first so Spell Snare stopped Chalice@1, and I FOWed all his moon effects or fetched for enough basics after that. Even with pure UW Landstill, I run into too much colorless. My manabase was:

4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
1 Tropical Island (for EE @3 against Moon effects)
4 Islands
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

and my list was
INTUITION UW LANDSTILL
Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
1 Tropical Island (for EE @3 against Moon effects)
4 Islands
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

Draws/Tutor
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Diving Top (this is so good with Standstill)
4 Standstill
2 Intuition

Permission:
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell

Board control
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Elspeth
1 Decree of Justice (not liking this too much)
1 Humility
1 Wrath of God
2 Vedalken Shackles (Always been a fan of these in any form of blue control deck. It is another good win-condition. A little inconsistent with the manabase against wastelands/moon in my meta, great with Intuition tutoring)
1 Crucible of Worlds



I play my own variant, with Intuition for Academy+Crucible+Wasteland/Shackles lock. Seems weak sometimes. I really want to green for LftL. I might play some sort of UWg or UWbg Landstill with LftL and Intuition, but untill I solve the colorless issue, or effects under Moon, I don't know if I'll pick up this deck for my metagame.

What's the common Wishtarget for Wishstill? Enlightened tutor to search up your lock? Why not run 2-3 Enlightened Tutor? Is there too much card disadvantage with Enlightened Tutor?

I thought I would have a bad MU against black discard, but apparently, spell snare, STP, Brainstorm does so much against them, and Standstill refills your hand without any trouble.

If anyone can answer my questions about Landstill's MU and weaknesses, and how to improve on the games against chalice/3sphere/Moon.dec, I'd really appreciate it. I think I found my favorite deck after MUC. UW Landstill is an edge more powerful than MUC due to the white splash.

[Ziilot]

I'm not fan of decrees either. Also I think that humility is great card, but it makes Eternal Dragon 'useless'. I would like to cut one decree and dragon but then there would be less win conditions.

I'm running this list:

creature [2]
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

instant [20]
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Fact or Fiction
2 Spell Snare

sorcery [4]
2 Decree of Justice
2 Wrath of God

enchantment [6]
4 Standstill
2 Humility

artifact [4]
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

land [24]
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Scrubland
1 Underground Sea
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
1 Dust Bowl

Thinking about something like this:
-1 Dust Bowl
-1 Tolaria West
-1 Academy Ruins
-1 Crucible of Worlds
-1 Eternal Dragon
-1 Engineered Explosives
+2-3 Vindicate
+3 Wasteland
+1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

[FredMaster]

If you don't like Humility to shrink your Dragon, just play Top instead of the creature. I can say that Sensei's Divining Top replaces the Dragon completely plus it grants you the "Godcheat" (Standstill + Top) and it will give you an even bigger mid/lategame.

Concerning your changes I'd say that they look reasonable except for cutting the Crucible. When you prefer the Wasteland manabase then I'd strongly advise to play Crucible as well, for the obvious reasons.
I don't know if it necessary to play 24 lands with that manabase, since I had no problems with my 23 so far, but it might be different when you run Wastelands.

[rockout]

@crz87: Run E. Dragon if you are having trouble being DS.

[Spur Grappler]

The argument against Humility that it makes your Eternal Dragon 1/1 ist just ridiculus. When you have your Humitily in play you will probably win through Decree/Factory/Elspeth and you don't need to play your Dragon anyway. By the way, the dragon is in 90% of your games just mana fixer.

The problem with Wrath is, that you are often forced to trade it 1/1 or 1/2 against Goyf or other creatures, if you have no other removal. Humility is a real threat on the Board against most decks, cause it disables all creatures on the board and those that will come in the later game. Your oppenent will have to answer it with countermagic or Grip or will probably loose. Wrath gives you some time, but as soon as another threat comes on the board your problems start again. And most players are intelligent enough not to overextend against Lanstill.
By the way, the opponent will need his or her grips for EE as well, which makes it quite likely that you will get at least EE or Humility to work.

I play following list which seems quite satisfying to me.

MAIN DECK:

lands(24):
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

counter(15):
4 FoW
4 CS
4 Spell Snare
3 Stifle

drawing engine(8):
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm

board control and removal(9):
4 StPS
3 EE
2 Humility

finisher(4):
2 Decree of Justice
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Crucible (is board contol, mana fixer or finisher because it reanimates your factories)

SIDEBOARD:
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Etirpate
3 REB
2 Hydroblast
4 Engineered Plague


This list has a massive counterbase which is just great against so many decks today. Spell Snare is equally useful against most aggro, combo and control. For me it seems everything but playing 4 is a mistake.

I do without Enligthened Tutor and Cunning Wish. I think they are too slow. Tutor would be really great to search EE, Crucible or Humility and maybe I would play 1, but I don't like the carddisadvantage which is against the principles of Landstill in my opinion. But I'm not really sure about the Tutor (and what I would cut for it, maybe 1 CS). It definately is a great top deck in the mid and late game. I would be glad to hear some opinions on that one.
Cunning Wish is simply not useful against most bad Aggro matchups like Goyf Sligh. Having more Snares or Stifles in that slot keeps you alive in the early game. Cunning Wish is really bad in the early game and ruins your Sideboard which are to many negatives for me to play it.

I play 2 Decree of Justice, because it cycles. Maybe I would change one into Elspeth or a Wrath. I built this Deck to get Landstill a better early and mid game and cards like Elspeth are just bad on your starting hand and only useful, if you have board control. In 90% of all games I kill with factory and decree alone and I don't feel the need of Elspeth, though she may be a great card. Decree can surpsie the opponent while attacking, but it is vulnerable against Stifle which is played more frequently these days.

I feel like most Landstill players play to many killing options. I often see 3 Decree and 2 Elspeth. But I think it occurs rarely that you have board control and just nothing to kill your opponent. In the past I often lost because of the opposite. If you attack carefully with your Factory and not without counter protection against StPS you can win the game with 1-2 Factories alone.

[rockout]

I think you might want to rethink your list and run some more win conditions. Since you cut fof your only ways of "digging" are having crucible in play and fetching all the lands out of your deck, casting bs, or relying on standstill to get there. Sometimes standstill is that good but a lot of times you won't see your win conditions without some dig to dig deeper or just your number of outs.

[Citrus-God]

4 Standstills and 4 Brainstorms aren't enough. Try running some SDTs or Ponders if you dislike FoF.