The first guy who beat me said that he had lost to blood moon effects to many times so that he changed it to have more basics. The meta hasn't changed?Originally Posted by Joe_C
Remember when Magus was T2 and it beat faeries, faeries then went from 0 basics to 7-9 basics.
Well, if you think that this deck is performing well at tournaments, then don't change anything, but let me know when it does well. And please dont say T8 at the grand prix, the only good placing lately, and even people in here wondered how the deck couldn't lose to itself in so many rounds.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...&postcount=124
happened yesterday. And yes the deck is inconsistent as it mulligans like shit, we all know that, removing seething song wont help that at all. We have no draw sources or shuffle effects. We have to take what our deck gives us.
TEAM AWESOME
Well, at least we smell better
Just as an update I placed 5th in the bazzar tourney on the 21st with this deck. the list should be in the coverage thread somewhere. I lost to 4c thresh, 2nd round bye, then I beat 2 merfolk decks 2-1, and one goblins deck 2-0 and lost in t-8 to faries. got 2 taigas and 2 savannas
Women love men with an air of mystery about them, and nothing adds that to a guy quite like a ball-gag with a hello kitty picture on it.
Team DonkeyPunch
DRAGON STOMPY
Hi Guys,
I havenīt used my DS-Deck for a while and I feel the need to change something. I always wanted to give the deck a slightly more aggressive approach. I was never impressed by Jitte in this deck since it eats up 4 mana and doesnīt help keep the Magus of the Moon alive and sucks in multiples because it denies hellbent. Jitte & CotV @2 donīt go well either.. Also playing a Simian Spirit Guide and needing to equip it with Jitte (total 5 Mana) didnīt impress me. Also the T.Mauler isnīt very exciting.
After I complained a bit I would like to present you a different approach. I donīt say it is better then the one we have since I couldnīt test it an awful lot but what I have seen so far has been very promising. If it doesnīt work I will go back to the more traditional build.
So here is my list:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City Of Traitors
10 Snow-Covered Mountain
18
4 Arc-Slogger
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit-Dragon
20
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void4
4 Seething Song
3 Blood Moon
3 Goblin Assault
4.Grafted Wargear
22
So what are the changes:
3 Goblin Assault
4 Grafted Wargear
Goblin Assault:
Gives you a constant flow of creatures. These little helpers start to apply pressure early on. At least Goblin Assault binds a creature, because otherwise Goblin Assault can go nutz pretty fast. And multiples are out of this world. So basically GA is a one-time-investment you can capitalize from during the rest of the game. Also worth noting is that an unanswered GA is a very quick clock that canīt be stopped by a single creature after it started going. Also very good against Standstill/Humility; Goblin Weirding and Goblins in general.
Grafted Wargear:
Also a one-time-investment that can be used in multiple ways.
1. First turn MotM gets second turn BOLTPROOF and starts beating fo 5 and becoming a 4 turn clock.
2. First turn Gaithan Rider beats for up to 8 the next turn!
3. Late SSG become a 3 mana investment for a 5/4 Vanilla
4. Goblin Assault becomes a lot scarier when you start to shit 4/3 GOBBOS EACH TURN!
5. RPD can be played turn 4 or 3 with a previously played Wargear in play making the RPD BOLTPROOF the same turn it comes into play. Beating with a pumpable flyer with doublestrike and a 6/5 Body is pretty cool too
So what are the ups and downs when using Wargear over Jitte?
+Wargear isnīt lengendary
+Wargear has no conflict with CotV
+Wargear is faster 3cc vs 2cc +2 for equipping
+When equipped creature dies you can reequip for 0 mana letting you play other stuff.
+Makes your weak creatures an instant threat Jitte starts to rule a turn later
+Is really strong with GA
-Doesnīt give you life Didnīt use Jitte for the lifegain anyways and if I did I normally lost anyway because I couldnīt disrupt/race my opponent
-Canīt be used as Spotremoval You got me. We would have to live with that.
-2 for 1 when being destroyed If Goblin A. is carrier we donīt care. Normally people spend their Artifact/Enchantment-Removal on stuff like 3Sphere, Moon, CotV or Mox.
Try it out and give me Feedback! It Rockīs since it makes the deck tick a turn faster. I mean Ending a game with a MotM turn 5 all by itself is ……..PRICELESS or Topdecking a SSG turn 7 and being happy about it since you have 2 Wargears online is …….PRICELESS.
Just one thing, Powder Keg is against what?
Ichorid, Landstill(nails man lands and decree of justice tokens, elspeth tokens), decks that run tarmogoyf, goblins etc.... pretty much anything that runs 0-2 cc permanents we want to blow up.
@chillerkiller: Grafted wargear seems interesting, but you do know that game 2 you make all their artifact hate even better against you. Jitte is not that mana taxing as in they need to deal with it or your creature fast or it will win the game in 4 turns. The life gain is really beneficial and being able to eat x/2 creatures after 1 swing is huge in a lot of matches.
TEAM AWESOME
Well, at least we smell better
I would really like wargear if everyone weren't packing Krosan Grip and Explosives in their board. Goblin Assault may offset some of the damage, but I doubt it ends up worth it in the long haul.
I'll give it a spin sometime if I can though.
I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.
I've been having an on-again/off-again love affair with Dragon Stompy (I love me some Pit Dragon).
Goblin Assault seems like an interesting alternative to Tauren Mauler - I'll give it a spin and see how it goes.
It made me sad when red Akroma really stopped being viable anymore :(
Goblin Assault makes Engineered Plague relevant.
hey
How many of you guys really like Jitte in the main?
I play DS for a long time, and very often Jitte is just meh...
I play it when I can, but nearly every other card in this deck is better, and then, I don't equip it, because it doesn't do enough for total cost of 4...
We don't have evasive beaters (only Dragon, and thats 2 Mana more)
The problem with Jitte imo is, that you want to do XXX other things with your mana, and it doesn't pump the creature directly, neither gives it evasion or something...
After the GP, I see many lists without Jitte, because the GP-list shows that Jitte wasn't needed, and it seems to work well without Jitte.
@Taco: I don't think that Jitte is needed as a 2-off core card in this deck.
What did you other guys think about it?
YawG
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells
:16:- (See, now Erratic Explosion's a deck)
Legendary Creature - Horror
Haste, Hexproof, Double Strike, Trample
Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells is indestructible.
Permanents you control can't be sacrificed or copied.
Whenever Kenjawn, Mutator of Cells attacks, defending player gets liver cancer (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)
13/13
jitte is a utility card that shines against janky decks that aren't hit by the tier 1 hate that this deck packs. this deck is tailored to beat the top decks, but then it can lose to some random piece of crap because half the cards in the deck are dead. jitte is great utility against random decks because of all the different things it can do. i dont think its optimal against the top tier decks, but provides good equipment against any deck and fixes the bad match ups against those random decks. of course if you never face those kinds of decks and most of your meta is top tier im sure there is a better choice, but if you have a random meta i think jitte does have a place in the md.
@Esper3k: while akroma isnt necessarily optimal in all situations, she is playable. and if playing her makes you happy you go ahead and do it. remember this is a game that you should enjoy playing, i think some people take it too seriously some times.
Even those born to battle could only lay their blades at Akroma's feet.
"No rest. No mercy. No matter what."
Here, Here!
When it all boils down it's a game, so one or two pet cards here and there should matter too much.
If this has already been discussed my bad:
What about Jaya Ballard as a SB card? In a blue heavy meta (what Meta isn't these days?) I can see her being good, she does fit in to 3cc slot and she does enable Hellbent but the double red and her being a little mana intensive could be an issue.
I think the 1RR cost is tolerable if she is in the board. I personally still prefer shusher against counter decks, although being able to pitch to Jaya is techy. I have seen a few European lists that run her in the board.
TEAM AWESOME
Well, at least we smell better
I am now playing a singleton Shusher which seems really good but we'll see as I have a tournament coming up in a couple of weeks.
I am also going to do some testing with Goblin Assault to see how all that jazz will work out, right now I am going between 3x Assault 2x Blood Moon or Vice Versa.
I've actually been tinkering with various mana-producing guys in the Mauler slot recently. After a brief failed affair with Grinning Ingus (If it made 1instead of
What I like Coal Stoker doing is allowing me to be dropping Moons or Chalices while I'm also dropping threats. Stoker/Moon, Stoker/Trinisphere, Stoker/Morph, whatever. He's especially incredible off Seething Song. Song allows you to go Stoker/Chal-2, Stoker/Dragon, or even Stoker/Stoker/Magus.
I'm not going to say at this point that he's better than Mauler. But I think he's an interesting addition and I'm enjoying testing him. And the whole deck just feels way more consistent with him in there. The only matchup I really miss Mauler horribly in is Goblins, because the immunity to Warren Weirding is fantastic, but Goblins is still quite workable. Here's the list I'm screwing around with, for interest.
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Blood Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Coal Stoker
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Arc-Slogger
SB: (Not recommended, just screwing around with some ideas)
4 Pyroclasm
3 Flametongue Kavu
2 Grafted Wargear
2 Pithing Needle
2 Boil
1 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon
The thing I like most about Mauler is that he's a 3cc threat that easily becomes bigger than Goyf most times. Bounce is almost non-existent in the format, so he's pretty much there to stay unless your opponent uses a true removal spell on him or he dies in combat.
True, we run other threats that can take down Goyf too (hellbent Raiders, double striking Pit Dragon, Slogger + an activation), but Mauler is 3cc and he doesn't require anything special to get big other than being a part of natural game progression (much like Goyf in that respect).
Isn't Coal Stoker hurting your consistency, Taco? I know when I ran Mountain Yeti the CMC of four was a pain. And not only does Stoker break one of the cardinal rules of Dragon Stompy, he's only a 3/3. A 3/3 that Lightning Bolts you when you cast it a decent percentage of the time.
On a somewhat unrelated note, what's up with Boil? Aren't eight moons enough to beat blue mana bases? I guess it's a good board choice if you keep running into Merfolk, Faerie Stompy, and MUC along with a good helping of Thresh and Landstill.
I dunno, I've never had much of a problem getting the job done with eight moons.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Strangely, no. By virtue of producing mana, he's actually made me more consistent. And way faster. The downside is I don't get turn one Maulers that turn 7/7 and munch on Tarmogoyf faces. So there you go.
It sort of alters the Dragon Stompy rules. It's a 4-drop, but it's a one-red four drop, and one that can get me multiple red, and one that only costs me a net of one.
Honestly? I'm not sure. I'm testing it out. I tend not to automatically dismiss sideboard choices that top eight Grands Prix. Seems like it's yet another "Hey, look, you lose!" card against Thresh/Landstill/etc, and it's solid against decks packing a lot of basic islands. Which helps against the stupid Blue Progenitus deck popping up in my area.On a somewhat unrelated note, what's up with Boil? Aren't eight moons enough to beat blue mana bases? I guess it's a good board choice if you keep running into Merfolk, Faerie Stompy, and MUC along with a good helping of Thresh and Landstill.
Congratulations to James Mink!!! Dragon stompy kicks ass, despite its suicidal tendencies! The only question about his decklist is why the hell 3 Maulers? Mauler is good but only in 4s, right?
I wouldn't say random. It's just that it is combined with other cards, and he had no more space. I bet that in all the matches that he sideboarded the Needle, he always sbd other cards with a relevant role as well. Check out Nassif's whole SB. It is made of 1-ofs..(coupled with draw cards main). I think these singletons form answers towards different decks when combined differently(and for the record, I've heard this is called redundancy). I've explained that roughly in page 87.That random one-of Needle in the SB... what is that?
I'm not dead sure you're right. Against weenies you're busy removing X/1s n' X/2s to let Slogger attack and then sometimes you're overwhelmed. But I won't insist, due to my limited experience.
An excellent (dealing Bolt combat damage) chump blocker.. especially if equipped. I usually play with 3 equipments MD.
Pardon me, but won't a 3cc Snuff-Out be a finishing move against us then?
Not if you play 3 equipments, if we are talking about attack. As for defence you're right, because Goblin Assault doesn't prectically create blockers.
You're right, but a first turn Assault equipped with a second turn Jitte, Grafted Wargear or even a Seething Songed Sword is better. In my humble opinion always.
Do you mean that the deck's better without any equipment or that Jitte is no more No.1? If you mean the second what would be better? Grafted Wargear, or have you got something else in mind?
This deck is an established one and from that point on it is natural that any changes to it should come slowly.
Isn't Powder Keg also good against Enchantress? As for Ichorid, Chalices and 6-8 Moons are more than enough I think.
True. But if you play 1-2 Assaults, as I plan to do, you force him to SB possibly 4 Plagues against your 2 Assaults. If you don't run Maulers(that count as Goblins) will he do it??
I agree. Jaya Ballard and other pitchers like Arc Mage are good since almost all people run 4 Sloggers and 2+ Jittes. Late game Maulers could be helpful if pitched plenty of times. But I wouldn't play more than 1-2 pitchers because 1)their abilities cost mana that is often more useful elsewhere, 2)we don't want to pitch all the cards when topdecking, and 3) two weak pitchers on board would be very weak (plus that we won't have 2 cards/turn to trash and 5-6 mana for both). We already have 8 one-shot pitching cards maindecked after all.
I agree. We can't afford even more life loss. But we have many cards that utilise that red mana, Dragon, Slogger, Shushers - pitchers if maindecked and equipments. Note that Yeti was even more difficult because it costs 2RR.
It depends. MUC plays with 1 Academy Ruins and over 20 Islands for example, you do not harm them with moons. Merfolk plays lots of Islands, and while you neutralise their Mutavaults and Wastelands, you can't say that 8 Moons beat them. Same with Faerie Stompy. And as Taco had said, Solidarity is slowed down if its pilot plays 6 fetchies and you play a Moon first...but in any case case with -let's say- at least 10 Islands, I don't think "beat" is the proper word.
And something about Jitte. If it was used in decks that did well in tournaments (main or sb).. if we don't know if it is the best equip.. if it is a great utility card.. if we need more space for something new.. if we can't count on having a Jitte for sure due to DS's no draw anyway..while multiples hurt..
If all these ifs happen to be true simultaneously, try playing 1 goddamn Jitte:)
I meant the former. That said, I will say both of the following.
1. Running exactly one Jitte is a fantastic idea and something I've been doing off and on for awhile now.
2. Grafted Wargear can be -nuts-. It makes SSG and Magus actual physical threats. It's a freeplay off Coal Stoker. It turns Slogger and Raiders bigger than the format. And it makes Pit Dragon just bonkers. Like, outrace a Progenitus bonkers. The downside is obviously huge, though, as it turns Trygon Predator, Krosan Grip, and Vindicate into ridiculous two for ones. So I still don't advocate maindecking it. Or much equipment at all. Equipment isn't a threat and DS has no draw. I tend to use Wargear the most when either Blood Moon or Trinisphere is incredibly weak in a matchup.
We do. And usually it's enough. And keep in mind that Coal Stoker is the -first- guy you ever play from your hand. Meaning the only time you're running the risk of burning for 3 is when you topdeck him and have to play him to keep Hellbent going or to keep control of the creature situation on the board.I agree. We can't afford even more life loss. But we have many cards that utilise that red mana, Dragon, Slogger, Shushers - pitchers if maindecked and equipments. Note that Yeti was even more difficult because it costs 2RR.
The neat thing about -this- situation, is that if you're doing it to keep Hellbent alive, 50% of your Hellbent creatures can use the mana. And because he's so explosive, you'll have less situations where you have to play him to keep control of the board when you don't.
However, I won't argue the point that he sucks as a midgame topdeck. Then again, he's competing for Mauler and Goblin Assault's slot, and they suck ass midgame also.
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