[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Avatara]

Talking about bombs... in a build with 4 Stingscourgers and 25 land: run 4 x Siege-Gang Commander!

(-1 Gempalm Incinerator)

[ScatmanX]

Loved the deck. Stingscourer rox. I have 3 in my monored and ain't removing them.

Nessaja/Eldariel:
Have you guys ever missed the Relic or the Fanatics main?
Seems your game agains't Dreadge really sux...

How doesPyroknesis work in the combo matchup, once it only deals damage on creatures? (I see it woorking agains't elfball (TEES))

I coulden't agree more on the Liege.
final question: Isn't 4 Tinkerer's a little overkill? I'd personally run 2, and put Needles or REB's in there...

[Nessaja]

As for 4 Siege Gang.. I just don't have a spot for them really. I would, otherwise, I'll admit that it's extremely tempting to remove either 1 stinger or a Gempalm for a siege gang.. But I'm quite fine with 3 right now.

Relics I've used main for a long time. I would include them as they do improve some matchups drastically, but it can also cost you games. You can generally win against Goyfs and Stalkers, Loam and Dredge are annoying... they've gone in and out of the board really.

I've never missed Fanatics one bit, idk about Eldariel.

As for Pyro.. just elves and Empty the Warren's, marginal not worth mentioning. Actually probably quite decent against Ichorid (byeye moeba's) but no good against TES or ANT or anything. Should I start considering Pyrostatic Pillar just for combo =/? Not sure how good that would even work.

Good point on the Tinkerers, it's usually a direct swap with Stingscourgers against creatureless decks or even affinity (fun times)... My sideboards have always been weak because I have a hard time identifying what my hard matchups are (MWS only brings you so far). Specifically what do we need REB's for? What weak matchup would it improve. Same for Needle.

[Eldariel]

Nessaja/Eldariel:
Have you guys ever missed the Relic or the Fanatics main?
Seems your game agains't Dreadge really sux...

I never really played Relics main. 25 lands is enough strain on the Ringleaders without adding Relics (the only thing I could think of is straight-up trading two lands for two Relics, and I like my lands). And with regards to the two cards, sure, I'd occasionally like Relics, but frankly, with so many other huge creatures besides Goyf getting played in the format and with most Goyf-decks packing Countertop to really screw with Relic, I just find it too situational to main outside very specific metas. The cycling option presents an investment you can't often afford early on due to needing to cast threats or let opponent establish control.

And with Fanatics, yes, I miss them constantly. But here's the thing: I miss them against fringe decks. Dredge is probably the biggest deck they're good against, but I basically never want them against modern blue decks. Gone are the days when a Fanatic could get in there for 5 before being dealt with. When I'm playing against Elves, I want them. When I'm playing the mirror, I want them. Hell, I occasionally want them against ANT to give me a slightly higher chance to steal the game when they screw up and go to 1 with Vial in play. But I don't want them against the dominant decks in the format. Losing Fanatic hurts, but it's presently the weakest slot in the deck.

Piledriver is necessary simply to fight in the big creature meta; it can easily force blocks and most decks just can't chump it. Oh, and pro-blue is getting pretty relevant with Trygon Predators, Trinket Mages & Sowers seeing more and more play. Most importantly, Piledriver makes the clock fast. Nowadays it can be a pain to resolve a large mass in many match-ups; Pile makes that duo or trio go all the way really fast. Fanatic is mostly impotent there.


Short version: Both cards could be good, but losing them hurts less than losing anything else in my experience, and the replacing cards feel superior. And you can still beat Dredge, although G1 you need to get lucky (Gempalm your own guys or goldfish faster than them or some such); you've got those Relics post-board. It's a worse match, sure, but it's not popular enough in my experience to bend over backwards for.

[ScatmanX]

Few more questions:
How often more are you paired up agains't Plague than Combo? Because seems you just roll over and die to combo.
The other thing is the mirror match. with no Fanatics/Sharpshooters, it seems rather weak. But I guess 4xStings and 4xIncinerators dodge that.

If I had Mutavaults, I'd test your list, only:
MD:
-1 Stingscourer/Incinerator/Piledriver/Ringleader
+1 Sharpshooter
and the SB:
SB
1 Goblin Tinkerer
3 Pyrokenises
3 Tormord's Crypt
2 Boartusk Liege
4 Challice of theVoid
2 Pyrostatic Pillar

Reasoning:
Never really needed more than 1 Tinker on the board.
3 Knesis seems more than fine to me
Crypt's over relics because I've lost, more than once to dreadge because I was on the draw, and my Relic weren't Crypt.
4 CotV+2 Pillar to have a shot agains't combo
2 Liege seems enough, but I really would like to have 3 agains't plague tough.

[Avatara]

turn 1: Mountain -> Goblin Lackey
turn 2: land -> Stingscourger -> Siege-Gang Commander

Is it possible to sacrifice the Stingscourger on turn 3 for 2 damage using the Siege-Gang Commander or do I have to put it in the graveyard if I don't pay the echo?.

[ScatmanX]

You can sacrifice him to Siege-Gang-Commander at your upkeep while the echo is on the stack.

[FoulQ]

@ Eldariel:

I've been wanting to replace fanatic now forever, but I simply cannot find a decent goblin replacement. It seems he has been the weakest spot in the deck since legacy began, and yet he continues to be in most of the winning lists. Right now I think there is no good all-around card to replace him without disrupting the curve too much.

It's funny you should mention piledriver as the hot card in goblins right now. I have been having extreme difficulties with the card, I cut one, and I feel my deck has become much better. Rarely do I really need more than one and I find them to be just miserable by themselves, which these modern blue decks are capable of achieving no problem. However, your point about protection from blue all the sudden being relevant I think is a very important note. This I do miss.

To all others, I'm glad we all agree on stingscourger. Many people in my meta still do not know what it is, haha. I do somewhat miss him, but I have cut him in favor of weirdings.

[true story]

It's funny you should mention piledriver as the hot card in goblins right now. I have been having extreme difficulties with the card, I cut one, and I feel my deck has become much better. Rarely do I really need more than one and I find them to be just miserable by themselves, which these modern blue decks are capable of achieving no problem. However, your point about protection from blue all the sudden being relevant I think is a very important note. This I do miss.

Piledriver is really good against Merfolk and almost single handedly wins that matchup.

[Shriekmaw]

Piledriver is really good against Merfolk and almost single handedly wins that matchup.

Piledriver is the weakest goblin in my deck which is why I cut him down to 3 a long time ago. It's only good when you have multiple goblins in play. I also had to find room for stingscourgers as they are amazing.

My non-four of's are: 3 piledriver, 2 seige-gang, 2 stingscourger, 1 tin street hooligan, and 1 sharpshooter.

[Ectoplasm]

I truly cannot understand how so many people dare call mogg fanatic subpar since it's easily one of the best creatures ever printed, especially in goblins.

[rockSTAR]

I truly cannot understand how so many people dare call mogg fanatic subpar since it's easily one of the best creatures ever printed, especially in goblins.

rofl

the creature powerlevel is sky high compared to tempest. fanatic can't even rudimentary compete with doods like tarmogoyf, dark confidant etc.

[Ectoplasm]

rofl

the creature powerlevel is sky high compared to tempest. fanatic can't even rudimentary compete with doods like tarmogoyf, dark confidant etc.

rofl

mogg fanatic is in 10th edition as well as a €3 uncommon and it kills dark confidant

[rockSTAR]

rofl

mogg fanatic is in 10th edition as well as a €3 uncommon and it kills dark confidant

this argument stinks and you knw that.

[FoulQ]

Since you guys are on the topic, I have a couple questions about fanatic.

Is it worth it to keep fanatics in g2 against aggroloam to kill confidants?

More of a rules question, but, when is the appropriate time to kill an arcbound ravager with a mogg fanatic / gempalm incinerator?

[Avatara]

The thing with Mogg Fanatic is... I want my first drop to be either Aether Vial or Goblin Lackey (except vs Ichorid of course). After that first turn the Mogg Fanatic might as well be a Stingscourger, Warren Weirding or a Gempalm Incinerator. Having that required second land should never be a problem (23-25 lands in the deck) and you shouldn't play with a 1(-2) land hand anyways.

[gamegeek2]

I truly cannot understand how so many people dare call mogg fanatic subpar since it's easily one of the best creatures ever printed, especially in goblins.

Top 10 creatures ever printed, in my opinion.

1. Tarmogoyf
2. Dark Confidant
3. Goblin Lackey
4. Arcbound Ravager
5. Psychatog
6. Birds of Paradise
7. Darksteel Colossus
8. Protean Hulk
9. Narcomoeba
10. Wild Nacatl

[leander?]

5. Psychatog

But that's not a discussion for this topic.

The thing with Mogg Fanatic is... I want my first drop to be either Aether Vial or Goblin Lackey.

Playing 4 Lackey and 4 Vial doesn't guarantee you to have one of them in your opening hand. I have no eperience with the deck and thus can't say anything about the quality of Fanatic itself, but you can't simply assume that 8 1drops is enough to have one in your opening 7. So saying you want Lackey/Vial over Fanatic is not really relevant always.

[eq.firemind]

Hey, people, there are some Dredge in my meta, so I can't think of any good replacement for Fanatics 'cause the small dude just owns Dredge (backed with Wort he OWNS them great).
I've tried to beat Dredge with different Gobboz lists without Fan and it became sooo difficult that I'm very confused now: I wantto replace him, I don't want to loose to Dredge and I don't want to run to much hate in my SB (ANTs, CB-tops, Burn, Survivals, Dredge, Affinity, Aggro Loam - pairings could be very random )

I'm new to Gobboz, so could you please advise a general decklist(s) for developed meta?

Thanks in advance!

[GreenOne]

(ANTs, CB-tops, Burn, Survivals, Dredge, Affinity, Aggro Loam - pairings could be very random )

Did you consider MDing Relic of Progenitus? Between goyfs, loam, ichorid and survival seems like it would be great in your meta.

Playing 4 Lackey and 4 Vial doesn't guaranty you to have one of them in your opening hand. I have no eperience with the deck and thus can't say anything about the quality of Fanatic itself, but you can't simply assume that 8 1drops is enough to have one in your opening 7. So saying you want Lackey/Vial over Fanatic is not really relevant always.

Just to add some data. The probability of having at least 1 between vial or lackey is 65% on the play and 71% on the draw (with 8th card).