[Deck] Merfolk

[Nekrataal]

But if you play against a combo deck like, say, ANT, how will you counter Tendrils without Stifle? Ok, your metagame may don't have ANTs etc, but Stifle at least should be SB.

I do not worry to much about Storm because there are more relevant matchups to care about. I saw just one Storm player today (there might have been more) and anyhow I analysed the meta and expected much more aggro and countertop. The SB is very much adapted to the first cause countertop is already a good matchup (with Grips). You always can play different SB choices here if you face combo a lot.

[coraz86]

It's been some time since I've run Merfolk (again, with school and whatnot, I haven't picked it up since I was testing for Chicago over Christmas break), but I wonder; is Trickbind good enough to think about? Not to cut Stifle, but as Stifles 5+, especially considering that an annoying number of Storm folks are thinking to run Pact of Negation anymore.

[Forbiddian]

It's been some time since I've run Merfolk (again, with school and whatnot, I haven't picked it up since I was testing for Chicago over Christmas break), but I wonder; is Trickbind good enough to think about? Not to cut Stifle, but as Stifles 5+, especially considering that an annoying number of Storm folks are thinking to run Pact of Negation anymore.

Most people here are currently discussing the validity of running Stifle at all. Stifles 5-8 isn't even on the table, even if there were a better card than Trickbind.

Depending on the metagame, it's quite a weak card, and at any rate not one that I'd like to see very much against Storm Combo as you can't even use it until after they've drawn 50 cards and probably thrown out a Chant or two.

But in general, keeping 1U open to try to starve out your opponent's lands is very counterproductive. Merfolk needs to use its mana to apply pressure (usually). Keeping one open for Stifle is possible, but I can't imagine how Merfolk could improve its board position quickly while maintaining Trickbind mana.

[Skeggi]

Oracle text: As Engineered Plague comes into play, choose a creature type.
All creatures of the chosen type get -1/-1.

Keyword being as.

Thanks for the enlightening . That is pretty crucial, yes .

[chmoddity]

@Nekrataal, with only 6 ways to get a Tropical Island into play and no real search did you ever have issues landing a Goyf when it was in your hand. And did your opponents have land kill. Did anyone do a good job taking out Vials?

[Nekrataal]

@Nekrataal, with only 6 ways to get a Tropical Island into play and no real search did you ever have issues landing a Goyf when it was in your hand. And did your opponents have land kill. Did anyone do a good job taking out Vials?

From the matchups you can see that they didnt have land kill, but then I would have fetched differently. Vial was usually forced Turn 1 against opponents playing U. In one game it was repealed and countered. In another game it was blown up by Deed. Thats about it.

Glad you ask about Tropicals ... lets put it this way: I had NO situation where I WANTED to play a Goyf and couldn't. I think that I played him more often then actually vialed him in because I wanted to keep a Lord "vial(able)" in order to nullify a possible removal or force through more damage by surprise. Of course a surprise Goyf can be a nice blocker too as mentioned in my tourney report. However there were a few situation where I had to choose between fetching a Tropical OR a Tundra, but this was actually never a hard decision. The day before the tournament I had done some thinking about playing a) 3rd Tropical b) Third Island or c) Fourth Wasteland. In the end I decided for c. Why? Now one the hand because of the high amount of CounterTop I expected and on the other hand due to the low amount of non-basic fuck I anticipated (hoped for). By the way, I guessed the meta quite well, I saw hell of a lot CounterTop and GoyfSligh. ;)

In my testing I played some games against DragonStompy. This is an already good matchup from my experience for Mono U Merfolk (be sure to keep a hand with at least one force and 1 Daze). My 3 color version is not much worse. I would just not count on white mana and possibly board ET in addition or instead of StP. I also played Mono B Sui in preparation of the tourney and won 65% of the games (did about 10). You have to play much more carefully of course and sometimes they get the nuts and screw you out of the game with double Sinkhole/Wasteland. But they cannot handle Vial and Goyf can stall like forever. I think that Eva Green is more even because it has bigger threats and can handle Vials. But I didnt test it. In recent tourneys I just played against it twice (still with a mono U Merfolk list). I lost both matches 2:1 but they were all very close matchups. However, with Pulse Eva Green got a strong answer to multiple Lords on the table :/

[AcidFiend]

Is the matchup versus Goblins/Burn winnable?

I'm having a hard time with my sideboard and don't know if using 4 whole slots for Hydroblast is going to have much affect. If I can't do that well even with all four, I might just concede it as an auto-loss and focus on other matchups.

For reference, the cards I've settled on so far are:
3 x Back to Basics
4 x Annul
4 x Mind Harness

I'm tossing between 4 x Hydroblast / 4 x Chalice of the Void / 2 of either V Clique or Cold-Eyed Selkie + 2 x Jitte.

[Piceli89]

Is the matchup versus Goblins/Burn winnable?

I'm having a hard time with my sideboard and don't know if using 4 whole slots for Hydroblast is going to have much affect. If I can't do that well even with all four, I might just concede it as an auto-loss and focus on other matchups.

For reference, the cards I've settled on so far are:
3 x Back to Basics
4 x Annul
4 x Mind Harness

I'm tossing between 4 x Hydroblast / 4 x Chalice of the Void / 2 of either V Clique or Cold-Eyed Selkie + 2 x Jitte.

The Goblin MU is very, very hard. I think it's like 30-70 for them. The only way to beat them is to counter/kill Lackey and Vial , and try at any cost to stop Piledriver, 'cause he'll be a huge pain in the ass both attacking and defending. I'd suggest, if you're expecting a lot of it, to run the same SB solutions of mine: 4 Hydroblasts+2 Propaganda. I think they're the best options avaiable for Red-hate, without the risk of focusing too much on those MUs and forget the others; despites this, I often thought, after losing to goblin, to put an additional 1-2 BEB, but didn't find space for them.

[whosyourdaddy]

Hmmm, has this thread just died or is it just everyone working on a super secret tech to bring it back to DTB? ;p

Ok, anyway I've got a technical question. Do you find 16 merfolk to be sufficient number to support the strategy(I mean, I want to be able to consistently cast Adepts). My new plan involves dropping some merfolks, but I'm not sure If it's a good idea. Help appreciated;)

[Shawon]

No, unless you have 16 Merfolk + X non-Merfolk. Otherwise, if you really want to cut some Merfolk, cut down Adept because it will be your weakest Merfolk in a deck with 16 or less Merfolk.

[whosyourdaddy]

Yes, well I'm actually thinking of 2-3MD Jotun Grunts and since I'm pretty sure I want to a set of StP and also keep a set of Brainstorm the deckspace
is getting pretty tight.

[Shawon]

Then cutting Adept is the way to go.

[Nekrataal]

You should play at least 20 creatures. So 16 Merfolks + 3 Grunts + X should fit in my opinion. If you start playing less Vial becomes more and more useless and you loose to much pressure. Especially when playing more then one color Vial is even better. Remember that with Vial you do not need any Merfolks in your hand to "play" Adept to your advantage.

[ykpon]

playing only 16 merfolks for some weeks, i sometimes had troubles with putting pressure on my opponent (though not that often with 4 mutavaults), but nearly never with putting adept into play. also, there're plenty of top8 decklists on deckcheck playing 16 merfolks too (with goyfs, sprites, naughts etc). i think it's better to keep the 4th adept in a deck until you realize (if you suddenly do) you really want to cut it.

btw did anyone test a swarm version of this deck using additional little guys like Manta Riders instead of mana denial stuff to increase power of lords and speed of the deck? not that good in some metas mb, but really more fun to play

[whosyourdaddy]

Hmm, maybe I'll try to cut 1 daze to go 16 Merfolk + 2 Grunts + 2(hmm Wake thraser I think). That could work.

I Tried a version with about 24creatures(can't remember how many exactly though). I Included some Tidal Worriors and (surprise) Vodalian Merchants XD I thought it coul be a nice additional merf body that just happens to dig for lords. Surprisingly he turned out to be pretty good in some matches(in fact, agains any red.dec i liked him much more than Wake Thraser. Especially against Goblins, a 2/3(considering you've got 1 lord out) for 2 that cantrips is just better than a 3cc guy that dies to mogg fanatic. Most of the time it was a big MEH anyway.

Generally speaking, besides Cursecatcher, Adept, LoA and Reejerey I was pretty unimpressed with just about any merfolk I've ever tried in this deck(and I've tried some of them). That's why I'm looking at Grunt right now.

EDIT: speaking of which: After trying the 'traditional' 19-land set and getting consatntly flooded with islands and frustrated with shitty topdecks I decided to Include some fetches(yes in a nono-U version) and reduce the landcount to 18 adding 4 Brainstorm. The logic was simple: If I cant find any good merfolks for the deck I'm gonna make sure I can dig for those that have proven themselves to be good. And so far it seems to be working.

[Phoenix Ignition]

EDIT: speaking of which: After trying the 'traditional' 19-land set and getting consatntly flooded with islands and frustrated with shitty topdecks I decided to Include some fetches(yes in a nono-U version) and reduce the landcount to 18 adding 4 Brainstorm. The logic was simple: If I cant find any good merfolks for the deck I'm gonna make sure I can dig for those that have proven themselves to be good. And so far it seems to be working.

Haha I was doing the exact same thing for a while, with the "How could it possibly hurt" thought. I even threw in brainstorms to make the top deck not be my only out.

Then I played against the traditional merfolk list and got SMASHED. I mean crushed like you wouldn't believe. Stifle absolutely destroyed me, and there was nothing I could do, even playing additional games after the first 2, to make this matchup better.

It also hurts against the new surge of tempo threshes that are seeing more and more play. I thought it was a good change too, but for the marginally better card choice it adds, it makes you lose against those 2 specific MUs much more often, which in my opinion is not worth it.

[GrAsH]

The Goblin MU is very, very hard. I think it's like 30-70 for them. The only way to beat them is to counter/kill Lackey and Vial , and try at any cost to stop Piledriver, 'cause he'll be a huge pain in the ass both attacking and defending. I'd suggest, if you're expecting a lot of it, to run the same SB solutions of mine: 4 Hydroblasts+2 Propaganda. I think they're the best options avaiable for Red-hate, without the risk of focusing too much on those MUs and forget the others; despites this, I often thought, after losing to goblin, to put an additional 1-2 BEB, but didn't find space for them.

Yes, last tournament I got crushed, but I mean CRUSHED to death by Goblins. This matchup is horrendous for me, with a traditional list. My strategy is mainly mana denial, and I usually have success with this strategy (I have to get 1 or 2 Mutavault to optimize this deck, and yes, Tidal Warrior is crap, i'm going to take them off and put 1 standstill and maybe the fourth Echoing Truth or 1 Island).

Vial Merfolk
12 Island
4 Wasteland
2 Mutavault

4 Cursecatcher
2 Tidal Warrior
4 Silvergill Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Wake Thrasher

3 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Daze
3 Echoing Truth
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial

Sideboard:
2 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Annull
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Against them, I boarded in 4 Hydroblast / Blue Elemental Blast and 2 Jitte, and boarded out all 4 Stifles, 1 Standstill and 1 Cursecatcher. Again, I lost, because Piledrivers and Lackeys are a pain in the ass, even with 12 counterspells I had in the deck.

Against traditional burn, I usually board in Hydroblast / Blue elemental blast and 2 Chalice of the Void - when you see Mogg Fanatic, Figure of Destiny, Grim Lavamancer, Magus of the Scroll, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Cursed Scroll, Chalice with 1 charge counter is nuts. You save your counterspells for Vortex, Fireblast, etc.

[Elvish-Champion]

I think a good list is with Spellstutter Sprites and Vendillion Clique.
I have tested it a lot and I think its one of the best versions.
Here is the list:

11 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Riptide Laboratory
4 Mutavault

4 LoA
4 Merrow Rejeerey
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Cursecatcher
4 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendillion Clique

3 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Aether Vial
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Daze

But I'm not sure what to play in SB.

Maybe:
Relic of Progenitus
BEB
Threads of Disloyalty
Spell Snare?
Umezawas Jitte
Wipe Away or Echoing Truth
.....

MUs are nearly 50 % against others except Goblins/Goyfsligh.
Tested a lot, especially against Goyfsligh and it's hardly winnable.
Tell me your sugesstions so that i can add good cards to my SB.

[deadlock]

Against them, I boarded in 4 Hydroblast / Blue Elemental Blast and 2 Jitte, and boarded out all 4 Stifles, 1 Standstill and 1 Cursecatcher. Again, I lost, because Piledrivers and Lackeys are a pain in the ass, even with 12 counterspells I had in the deck.

Never board out Stifle against Goblins, it can act almost like a hardcounter in many cases (Matron, Ringleader).

The power of Standstill is defined by there splash colours, if they play monored, Standstill might not be that hot, because they play a large amount of Waste / Port sometimes even Mutavault.
The multicoulour versions are usually much weaker against Standstill, asuming that you cast it with a positive board state ofcourse.

I would side out mostly Cursecatchers and then Echoing Truths with your maindeck, Tidal Warriors power again depends on the version, but generally doesnt look that good.

You might want to test some Propaganda in the board to help out the Goblin matchup. Also there quite some things i would change around, especially in the board.

[Nekrataal]

MUs are nearly 50 % against others except Goblins/Goyfsligh.
Tested a lot, especially against Goyfsligh and it's hardly winnable.
Tell me your sugesstions so that i can add good cards to my SB.

Against Goblins see above
Against Goyfsligh. There is no SB choice for the traditional build that will change the matchup tremendously. Blasts, Kira, Propaganda all help a little but are not enough. I played a dreadnougthed version because of that for some time, which didnt win consistently enough. BUT I can win with Ugw against Goyfsligh though it depends a little on what you draw. Why? Because I also play Goyf to stop their dudes early and I play white anti-red shit that spoils their direct damage, stops their red creatures and provides an "unblockable" path for my creatures. SO if you really expect a lot of Goyfsligh I would recommend at least considering a white splash.