Replace rishadaning by swords to plowsharing and lands by tarmogoyfs and maybe you'll realise how much your statement is a sophism.Originally Posted by leander?
CLICK HERE FOR THE RULES OF A VERY FUN MULTIPLAYER CASUAL FORMAT
You very likely can build it without spending any money, just out of what you already have.
An example with my (very large) list in a visual form
The problem is, Tarmogoyf isn't a land and Port isn't a Swords. And you can't even possibly compare them.
I'm not saying that Port is a bad card, but saying he is good becouse you won a game by porting three lands doesn't seem logical to me.
^ I have almost the exact same sentiments for Wort. Amazing topdeck, great in the long game, especially when assuming the control role in the game.
I'm currently testing the full set of Frogtossers, 3 Weirdings, 2 Incinerators, 1 Fanatic, and 1 Sharpshooter. I sometimes miss the Fanatics for killing opposing Confidants.
I've thought about trying the singleton Fanatic idea as well. Sometimes it's just randomly good to have, and I suppose there might be situations where I'd want to Matron for the little guy. I can't think of many of them exactly, but one never knows. And I'm still not a fan of Sharpshooter without running the maximum Fanatics.
Running less than four Weirdings makes me a bit skiddish, though. I love how seamlessly it flows into my curve once I start getting Chiefs/Tossers in play.
EDIT: I don't suppose anyone in RB has ever considered Death Pit Offering as a very narrow Plague solution, have they? It's probably worse than King/Auntie/Dralnu's/Just Ignoring Plague, but it has the weird ability to swing the game around when your opponent has you under double Plague. This intrigues me and makes me want to test it.
Last edited by Tacosnape; 05-28-2009 at 11:36 AM.
@ Taco:
What would you suggest? Switch the Shooter for the 4th Weirding?
How do your SBs look like? With all the Frogtossers, do you bother to put Squads in the board? Are they any good against non-combo decks?
I could say the exact same words about Siege-Gang.
"I run 2 SGC's and one Wort and I love her. She seems a bit win more at first, but compared to other win-more cards like kiki she actually does something to improve your board when she's a lone topdeck"
You don't compare Wort to Kiki. You do it to Siege-Gang.
@No Chi:
I, personally like Earwig quad. I'm testing 3 MD, and guess i'll kep that. They're not only good agains't combo. They give information about your oponent deck, wich is precious. Agains't a threat light deck, you can give your opponent a really headache, removing say, 3 Dreadnoughts, or 3 Goyfs, or 3 Plagues, or 3 Plowshers... and it is very often a 5/3 dude for 2 mana!
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
She also doesn't die to a Pyroclasm. If the Pyroclasm wipes the board clean and Wort is all you have, just revive that SGC on your upkeep and cast it and regain board position.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
@ScatmanX:
how do you fit the Squads main? what do you remove?
Who would cast puroclasm while you have a Wort in play, a Siege-Gang, and 5+ mana, without a counter backup? Seems like a really bad play.
@No Chi:
I have 3 Piledrivers, 1 Gempalm, 3 Weirdings, 0 Fanatics and 2 SGC. That opened me slots for 3 Squads, 1 Shooter and 1 Mad Auntie MD. Don't know if it is the best shot, but currently liking it.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
I don't like the argument that Earwig Squad can get Plagues out of the opponent's deck. Plagues in an opponent's deck don't hurt you. The plague that's in their hand can hurt you. The plague that's on the board is definitely hurting you. Earwiq Squad doesn't fix either of these except by simply being large. The plagues in their library are the ones that aren't hurting you. If they didn't draw the Plague by the time I can drop Earwig Squad, why am I terribly worried about it?
Yeah, which is why I'm running her instead of a third SGC. I value both equally, they both have a huge target on their head saying 'next spotremoval, aim here' and they both win the game if left unchecked, just in different ways.
I think Wort fills a niche though, because she's simply better in drawn-out games when the other dudes start lacking, and worse in the midgame where those 3 chumpblockers/shocks could win the game for you and there's not alot of targets for her but overall I value them both equally.
That being said, goblins is a midgame deck so I understand the arguement of SGC vs Wort, but like I said I like to have the option of having Wort on the table since she can be incredible.
Hello friend.
@ Ecto,
I get your arguments, and gues you're probably right to. There is no right or wrong here, just a matter of taste. I just wanted to create the debate.
@Taco,
If oponent doesen't have a Plague in hand, I'd much prefer him to have just 1 in the library than 4. Even if he drew 1 during the game, Squad will make sure he only drops 1.
You can drop Squad by turn 2. I guess that plagues matter all the game long, not only in the beginig.
After that, I really never said that he solves the Plague problem. He is just an undercost powerful goblin, that is good in several MU's.
little off:
Mad Auntie owned hard on MWS today.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
You can drop Squad by turn two if you connect with a Lackey and drop either a Chief or a Frogtosser, yeah. But if I'm connecting with the Lackey on turn two in this scenario, I'm not in too bad of shape by having it just be Siege-Gang Commander, dropping SGC off Lackey, and then using my excess mana I'm not spending to play Earwig Squad to play Wasteland or Thoughtseize to slow the Plague assault, or Goblin Piledriver to try and just kill them on turn three. The best thing Earwig Squad has going for it here is that it's a 4/2 body under the Plague.
And prevent Plague #2,3 and 4.
The deck run SGC, Warchief and piledriver, so your play is also possible. I just added other routs to this, and other problems.
Off: congratz on the 3000 post. =]
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
Didn't even notice. Thanks.:)
The problem with this plan is that if Earwig Squad gets removed, you've still got a Plague on the board you've got to fight through.
I guess I'm mostly curious where the space comes from for Earwiq Squad. I'm having a tough time telling myself I should run him when I already can't fit in four Drivers/Siege-Gangs and only two Incinerators. My sideboard's loaded up with Pyrokinesis, Thoughtseize, Relic, and presumably some slot to handle random problems. Pithing Needle or a splash for Seal of Primordium/Cleansing leads in my book, and Squad's still got a lot of others to compete with.
What else does he wreck? I admit I like the idea of him against Survival, but possibly less so than Pithing Needle. Hitting Enchantress's kill conditions would be awesome. What else is he strong against?
Then I've proved my point? Wort is good. Negates cards like Pyroclasm to a good extent. Firesprout is most definitely and more likely a superior card at this point compared to Clasm. At least it can kill Wort.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
Squad doesen't really "wreck" many thing. It's very good agains't combo, removing IGG/Tendrils/AdNauseam... but agains't everything else, he is solid. Giving It's the Fear only 1 wincon is really nice also. But apart from that, he just provide proactive defense agains't possible threat's/engines.
Now, to find space for him, it's really dificult. But try. The same way you did with EE...
About Wort, if you like it, play it. If you don't, don't. Its just a matter of taste.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
@ Pulse:
While I fantasize about blowing up double goyfs or double E plagues post-boards with pulse as much as the next player, I think only the latter is probable. The RGB casting cost is rough in the early-mid game, when we usually want to kill goyfs. I think it may be a suitable replacement to grips as a post-board out against plague, but it depends on your meta- if the plagues are coming from slower rock-type decks, I'd go with the pulses over plagues to live the 2-for-1 dream. However, I think the split second of K grip will be more relevant than the possibility of generating CA if you are encountering E plagues from the boards of b/X thresh.
You know what would suck, having a Lackey turn 1, it connects..... Wort. I can definately see situations where Wort is amazing but we already have Ringleader and SGC to Matron up if low on cards. Cards like Wort actually make you care about spot removal, I would almost always prefer to fetch Ringleader because of that. Goblins should avoid trying to do cute and just be a mean, lean killing killing machine with the most Efficient cards that always work and dont suck if board in Relic.
There have been times that I have connected with Lackey on turn 2, dropping Wort, with either a Weirding or an Incinerator in the 'yard. Doesn't happen very often, but that most likely would be GG. Obviously I'm in the 1 Wort/2 SCG camp.
I will be joining a tournament tomorrow, and I still haven't decided on 'tossers and Ports. I will test the 'tosser version later on MWS and hopefully make a decision. There have been a few match-ups that I felt that I lacked removal maindeck, but some games were turned to blowouts thanks to the 'tossers.
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