@ Misplayer
I haven't been arguing about specific decks in your or my meta. This is about the average.
Average Dreadstill Manabase:The Dreadstill I'm referring to is the Ugr build, where the only non-blue cards maindeck are Goyf and EE. This deck is also a control deck that can go "oops I win" with Stifle-Nought and can also go Aggro with an early Goyf or two.
3.96- Island
3.04- Flooded Strand
2.80 - Polluted Delta
(Only 3.96 fetches maximum can be used for Islands, assuming you drew no Islands, leaving 1.88 for Duals)
3.78 - Mishra's Factory
2.99 - Wasteland
1.13 - Volcanic Island
1.50 - Tropical Island
Well over half the mana-base gets rocked by B2B. B2B is a strong tempo play against Dreadstill. Does that mean you will win because of B2B? No. But, it is certainly devastating enough to buy time for MUC to generate massive card advantage under the asymmetry of B2B's effect.
B2B forces Dreadstill into a bottleneck, and it weakens several cards and synergies in the process, including the sideboard.
Countertop is devastating. And, one of MUC's best shots at winning is by using B2B. B2B cuts off the value of Countertop and Standstill, while enabling MUC to more than double the amount of mana that would be available to the Dreadstill player at any point in the game.
Mana resources win counterwars. Mana resources let you chain bomb. Mana advantage is the catalyst to the snowball of card advantage that the control player seeks.
Not true.I completely agree, but in order for Islandwalk to be relevant in this situation, they need to resolve 2 Lords of Atlantis.
Lord of Atlantis
Creature - Merfolk 2/2, UU (2)
Other Merfolk creatures get +1/+1 and have islandwalk.
Without a sweeper, you are screwed if LoA hits play. Period.
With countermagic and Vial, they have good odds of resolving/abusing it.
@ Pelikanudo
Averages from 225 Loam decks:Vs Loam : -4 B2B -4 F.Spike - 3 Kira : +4Powder K, +4Relic + 3Vendilion
3.06222222222 - Forgotten Cave
3.10222222222 - Taiga
2.73777777778 - Tranquil Thicket
3.60888888889 - Wasteland
1.02666666667 - Badlands
0.951111111111 - Bayou
0.697777777778 - Volrath's Stronghold
1.95111111111 - Bloodstained Mire
3.54666666667 - Wooded Foothills
0.524444444444 - Windswept Heath
1.36888888889 - Forest
1.0 - Mountain
3.87555555556 - Mox Diamond
You take out B2B against that?
peace,
4eak
I've been trying loam match ups and taking out B2B becuase trying this change I go on winning,
The choice is that I have to side in 11 cards
which cards will you take out ?
@ Pelikanudo
I'm not advocating your list. But, if I was playing it, I'd board like this:
-3 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
-1 Call the Skybreaker
-4 Force Spike
-1 Meloku
+4 Powder keg
+4 Relic
+1 Clique
CtS + Relic is not a combo.
peace,
4eak
4eak,
I think we'll have to agree to disagree about B2B in certain Dreadstill/NLU matchups. I was way off on Lord of Atlantis, maybe I just wanted it to say "you control" so that's what I assumed it said. In light of this, I agree with your analysis: the matchup is pretty brutal.
The only way to handle Merfolk if you don' t wanna to get the splash is a 2-3x of Llawan, Cephalid Empress in your sideboard. As Llawan hits the board, your opponent normally shuffle up his library and ask you to play the third game...
3p1c h0rs3!!
Agreed. The reason I win against Loam is because of Back to Basics. It absolutely destroys them. It's much worse than Magus of the Moon. You cannot take them out.Originally Posted by 4eak
Depending on the build of the deck, I would probably side as follows:
+4 Relic
+3 Powder Keg
+3 Blue Elemental Blast
-3 Kira
-1 Call the Skybreaker
-4 Force Spike
-2 Vedalken Shackles
Obviously, if the build ran more creatures, I would probably leave the Shackles in, but I have seen some with no more than 4x Tarmogoyf and 2x Countryside Crusher (which is really hard to steal with Shackles)
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
Against Merfolk, can't we use Snow-Covered Islands? Or am I missing something here?
Snow covered or not, islandwalk works anyway.
Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity - Seneca, Roman dramatist
Oh, duh, my bad. I should RTFC(omprehensive)R(ules).
I was confused by some cards like Rime Dryad which have snow-covered forestwalk (which obviously doesn't work on normal forests).
I think that MUC, in a combo-metagame like this, must run X copies of Vendilion Clique, that resolves so many matchs (ANT, Enchantress, TES), but, first, must have almost 3-4 copy of Stifle/Trickblind in the Sideboard (I prefere the second) against storm-combo (Solidarity, ANT; TES...).
Then, I had find a probably useless card in my library, ''Divert''. I think that this tech could be use in the sideboard against Black Based Deck (Pikula, Eva Green, Aggro Rock, MBA) and to resolve counter's battles (against Blue based control). What do you think?
I'm currently building a Mono Blue Control deck, mostly to play with my friends and participate in local tournaments, however I have a couple questions:
1) Should I run 1-2 Misdirection main, or put them sideboard?
2) I chose to run 4 Showers instead of shackles, I like the fact that it can steal all creatures and it can hit for 2 per turn. My meta is creature heavy, you think 4 are too many?
@ DeMarki
Neither. MisD has no targets worth the CdisA in Legacy.1) Should I run 1-2 Misdirection main, or put them sideboard?
Creature heavy metagames are perfect for Shackles. Sower is really at its best against aggro-control, but not so much against Aggro decks. If your metagame is really that creature heavy, then you really should go with Shackles.2) I chose to run 4 Showers instead of shackles, I like the fact that it can steal all creatures and it can hit for 2 per turn. My meta is creature heavy, you think 4 are too many?
Krosan Grip and Qasali Pridemage are the only real reasons one should consider Sower over Shackles. That risk is very often worth it in creature heavy metas.
Your land base and draw consistency should be quite stable to support Vedalken Shackles.
peace,
4eak
We are no longer considering Morphling as a win condition due to the M10 rules changes, correct?
A few pages back there is a bit of "discussion" about it. I think Morphling is still considered best.
Following Wizards new direction and going to play just dumb and warm bodys in the form of two Call the Skybreaker (+ Shackles ofc) in my list.
Last edited by deadlock; 07-27-2009 at 04:28 PM.
BBB
Sorry for the double post, but this thread needed a bump.
So, noo love for muc?
...
Then what about Moon MUCr:
// Lands
1 [B] Tropical Island
6 [SHM] Island (2)
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [B] Volcanic Island
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
// Spells
3 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
2 [SHM] Firespout
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
4 [DD2] Fact or Fiction
4 [DD2] Counterspell
2 [EVE] Call the Skybreaker
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DK] Blood Moon
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [B] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
SB: 2 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [SHM] Firespout
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
Basically you switch out B2B for Blood Moon and pick up some nice perks along the way.
The current build can set Chalice to 1 and 2 without much hurt (only BS and CS are affected).
The maindeck is supposed to present no real target for spot removal, so that Magus and Sower can savely brought in g2-3.
BBB
I'm not sure if a deck that is built to prey on decks with weak mana bases should run so many non basics.
// Lands
17 [CS] Snow-Covered Island
3 [CS] Scrying Sheets
2 [TSP] Academy Ruins
// Creatures
1 [MR] Platinum Angel
// Spells
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Counterspell
1 [TE] Capsize
3 [US] Back to Basics
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
2 [FNM] Fact or Fiction
4 [UD] Powder Keg
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Back to Basics
SB: 4 [DIS] Spell Snare
SB: 4 [A] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 4 [AQ] Energy Flux
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
It’s a pity that no one is talking anymore about MUC, as it is my favourite deck.
I have built two versions which are very similar; one with a white-splash.
Lands: 23
3 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
17 island
draw: 12
4 fact or fiction
4 think twice
4 brainstorm
counter: 16
4 force of will
4 counterspell
4 spell snare
4 force spike
Board-control: 7
4 vedalken shackles
3 nevinyrral’s disk
win-condition: 2
2 Morphling
SB: 4 back to basics
SB: 4 blue elemental blast
SB: 4 relic of progenitus
SB: 3 Disrupt
-------------------------------
Lands: 23
4 flooded strand
4 polluted delta
1 plain
1 tundra
1 swamp
12 island
draw: 12
4 fact or fiction
4 think twice
4 brainstorm
counter: 12
4 force of will
4 counterspell
4 spell snare
Board-control: 11
4 swords to plowshares
4 vedalken shackles
3 engineered explosives
win-condition: 2
2 decree of justice
SB: 4 back to basics
SB: 4 blue elemental blast
SB: 4 relic of progenitus
SB: 3 Disrupt
In my former builds, I run a draw-engine of 4 FoF and 4 TT, but sometimes my hand was very clunky – especially when I didn’t draw a TT – thus I have decided to include BS.
However, this problem couldn’t be solved by just replacing TT with BS.
BtB is strong, but it has nothing to do with the gameplan of the deck, so I have found it to be acceptable to put it into the SB, as I really needed room for a strong draw-engine and a strong counter-suite.
I apologize for my English.^^
Don't you think "strong draw engines" should benefit better of running several different situational solutions and finding then instead of several 4-ofs?
MUC is not quite great in the format these days, but if I would run it, I would probably go to a 2~3 B2B version with at least 1~2 Kira MD since it's faster than Morphling
3 Nevinyrral's seems too much in the mono-u version, and 3EE seems too much in the MUbwC too... you probly should go Kegs...
I like MUC to me more of a Tempo delayer until and after you get a finisher, which can be morphling or anything else... that's why I would run strong draws, some board solutions against rushs, and couters which are the deck objective... And I would prefer Kira over Morphling cos it's easier to do the tempo role...
Just thoughts thou... Probably MU merfolks is a lot more consistant than MUC
If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.
Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote