I watched this deck play all day at the 5k, and every time you got Ajani Vengeant in play, you just crushed your opponent. Why only run 1? Its a ridiculous threat against both aggro and control.
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Indeed. Why? Just why?Originally Posted by Bahamuth
Brainstorm or Ancestral Visions which is tutorable by Tolaria West? I think once they've decided to run the Tolaria West engine then Ancestral Visions becomes a compelling addition.
Fire//Ice can generate CA by hitting 2 X/1 weenies or cantrip and generate speedadvantage. And the tap effect is pretty naughty with Ajani Vengeant.
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As i mentioned earlier in my post. tolaria West->Visions is a win-more strategy. Control decks do not have the luxury of win-more games since they're easily crushed by fast aggro. Countertop Thresh is easy even for the Landstill player. i can see this deck crushing countertop but Landstill does that fine. Multiple testing shows that Landstill ignores Countertop anyway, and in Vindicate builds, you deal with much more. 6StP Landstill builds have a little more trouble against Countertop but in general, Landstill is gaining popularity as Countertop deck is gaining strength. This deck is good against Countertop but I can in paper say that it loses horribly and has a much weaker matchup against other forms of Aggro decks, especially fast one. Fire//Ice does nothing against Zoo.
Tolaria West->visions is great but only when you're winning. Taking a turn to tutor up Visions on Turn 3 and playing on Turn 4 is bad. If you tutor up visions and play it on Turn 4, it's still bad since you can only start drawing on turn 7. You only make such a play if they have no board and what's the point in drawing then? Are you saying that by turn 4, this deck has answered all threats on the board with just StP and Fire//Ice? Landstill runs up to 10-15 MD creature hate spells (including EE/Disk/humility/Wrath ) and many times it still faces an unstable board. Planeswalker help a ton but only Elspeth is the real threat since she keeps growing and can protect herself. Vengeant comes close to delaying the field, but is only effective agaisnt threat-light decks such as Thresh or countertop. Against Zoo, this deck needs SB Firespout or risk losing fast.
I'd rather have Brainstorm for turn 1s to dig for FOW/Snares/StP against Lackeys and Vials and hide my stuff from Thoughtseize/Hymn, and draw at instant speed after cracking Standstill and digging another 6 cards deeper.
This deck has good card draw but lacks card filtering. There's no guarantee that Jace will draw you into your answers. I'm not attacking the deck, but I would like to see the arguments for not including Brainstorm, which is notoriously the best card draw in the early game in this format, not to mention THE best card draw for control players.
Tournament placings, mostly.
ajani's ultimate is only good vs slow decks, decks not running burn, and decks not running stifle.
plus if you really want to destroy lands why not run white staxx?
ajani's tapping 1 dude down is weak for legacy, esp since it costs 4 mana to do it. i would rather just play shackles and steal their dude forever.
sure planeswalkers are difficult to deal w/ outside of vindicate and burn, but is a 4 mana spell really what this deck needs, if so why only 1?
the pile is a oddball mix of landstill and tempo thresh imho.
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Also, a well written card choice description and matchup analysis is needed too.
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I think he was being sarcastic.
The amount of times I staring down one dude is too numerous to count on one hand. It's also a way to slow down their mana, etc, etc. It's a way to slow them down while you become stronger.
Ajani cant keep creatures tapped.
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Goyf attacks.
I play Ajani, "bind" Goyf.
Goyf does not untap.
I bind him again.
Seems like I'm keeping it tapped.
for 3 mana you can own goyf, for 4 mana you can tap goyf.
seems terrible.
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That's a pretty surface-level analysis of ajani vengeant. He can keep any permanent tapped down, gain you life, kill medium/small dudes, bolt your opponent in the face, and occassionally destroy all your opponent's lands (good game). And each turn he can do something different than the last turn. Comparing this planeswalker to a single-purpose enchantment doesn't make too much sense.
He's definitely a really good tool, especially in a format where a lot of decks don't have an extremely large number of threats, and decks aren't usually prepared to deal with a resolved planeswalker, especially when backed by counterspells.
My bad, I thought it couldnt target creaturtes. Lern 2 reed newb
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He beats control/aggro if unchecked, is a win condition, keeps factories, goyfs, noughts, ect... under control. Its synergistic with fire/ice, and is a continual source of card advantage. So heres a thought: Try testing the deck instead of bashing its card choices without bringing anything intelligent to the table. Or you can continue to post fail one liners. Whatever you think works better for you.
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believe me, i play type2 and i played ajani vengeant, i know how amazing he is. i just dont think he is amazing enough in legacy.
good decks have daze, and fow main as well as sower (4 drop) and counterbalance.
resolving a situational 4 mana card that has very little impact on the immediate board seems terrible in a format where turn 1, 2 and 3 wins from combo decks are common.
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this
How many decks don't have something that you want to lock down on turn 4 or 5? Basically it's just the combo decks. I see a storm combo deck about every 4th tourney these days. That makes Ajani Vengeant likely to have impact when he lands about 13 out of every 14 rounds.
For a control deck I actually can't imagine that there isn't something I want to lock down by the midgame in most game because there usually is. Of course I'm usually using one shot solutions to do it. Being able to throw out a permanent to handle the situation that then allows me to switch targets when I've decided to remove the main problem (or priorities change) sounds like a win-win, particularly when that permanent can end the game for me at that point also.
And on the storm combo decks: even then mana can be a real issue for them. Keeping an Underground Sea tapped endlessly gives them yet another thing they need to draw into before they can go off in a lot of cases.
In addition to "Why not Brainstorm," why red as the third color?
Don't get me wrong. I love Ajani Vengeant here. Locking down forces them to overextend. Repeated Helixes are sexy. But there's only one of these in the deck at the moment. And it and Fire//Ice don't seem like automatically enough to not explore Black, Green, or Just straight UW.
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