[Deck] Suicide Black

[overseer1234]

meekstone unlike ensnaring bridge doesn't just stop them dead... they still get to swing with that 12/12 nought or 5/6 goyf, or every creature that comes into play for that matter... it doesn't stop them dead.. it just slows them down thereafter, so you might want that terror just in case your life gets too low and they're still dropping creatures, ya know.

That's why I play 4 jitte, to make sure you keep your life total out of the alpha strike range.

You don't need to worry about vanilla creature's getting one shot at you since you can still chumpblock them with bitterblossom.

Contamination lock is cool, but I think that jitte+B-Blossom also win's you the game, and jitte isn'd dead without B-Blossom

[Melwis]

That's why I play 4 jitte, to make sure you keep your life total out of the alpha strike range.

You don't need to worry about vanilla creature's getting one shot at you since you can still chumpblock them with bitterblossom.

Contamination lock is cool, but I think that jitte+B-Blossom also win's you the game, and jitte isn'd dead without B-Blossom

I must say wether you go with 4 Jitte or a 2/2 split between it and Contamination I am starting to like this version of SB and Meekstone and/or Contamination is two possible reasons why to play this deck over a splash to begin with.

[Mr. Durden]

Has anyone tried the meekstone version in a tournament lately? How's it do against the field? Meekstone seems solid except every deck it matters against seems like it has a way to deal with it.

[bowvamp]

In sui, doesn't meekstone just make all your creatures suck? They all have high power as far as my eyes can tell.

[Melwis]

In sui, doesn't meekstone just make all your creatures suck? They all have high power as far as my eyes can tell.

The creatures you most likely play in a Meekstone build are the following:

Dark Confidant
Hypnotic Specter
Nantuko Shade
Bitterblossom (not a creature but still should count as it)

Nantuko Shade is really good under Meekstone since it doesn't get tapped but can swing for much more than 2. Bitterblossom is there to either chump block opposing creatures (who then gets tapped under Meekstone) or to produce counters on Jitte (or do both).

[Mr. Durden]

Has anyone had any tournament success with the meekstone build? If so maybe a tournament report would be in order. I'm considering switching my build to that one but not quite sold on it yet.

[MTG-Fan]

Nether Void is an amazing card in this deck.

Establish some board condition with a Blossom, or a Shade, ritual out a Void and lock your opponent out of the game for the next few turns while you beat down.

I'm running 2 in my Suicide Black list.

[Mr. Durden]

I took a mono black control aggro (not sure if it's really suicide) to a tournament yesterday and finished 3-2 just one game out of the money.
Here's the list I took:
16 Swamp
3 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Nyxathid
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Tombstalker
3 The Rack
3 Smother
3 diabolic Edict

Sideboard:
3 Perish (the nuts!)
4 engineered plague (four merfolk decks, and a sliver deck)
4 extirpate
4 Powder keg

Changes I'd make (with cards I have right now):
-3 The Rack +3 Top

Things People might comment on:
Nyxathid- awesome all day, every time he hit the board the opponent had to find an answer, he ended many games swiftly. I think negator would be horrible in my meta against tons of aggro control decks and some burn.

The Rack- Usually love it, and it only gets better in multiples. I run fourteen (hippie, hymn, thoughtseize, duress) discard effects so it's always at least a lightning bolt for colorless. Needs to become top because Bob damage got to be a bit too much in some matchups and I found myself siding out the rack an awful lot more than I like.

I've top foured several times with this deck but am constantly tweaking it. I'd love to hear some feedback.

Meta this time was: Merfolk, Burn, Canadian Thresh, Mono Green chalice aggro, CounterSlivers, Some variation of Eva Green or Dead Eva, Dragon Stompy, TES, Countertop decks ( it's usually always something along those lines. Lots of aggro control with the occassional combo deck or sometimes stax and landstill for control decks)

Thanks!

[Mystical_Jackass]

Seems maybe a "little" too much on the discard; with your aggro style, I'd think maybe taking out like 2 of the Rack and 2 Duress... maybe add 4x Sinkhole. Gives you even more turn 1-3explosiveness..
In aggro-style Black decks I'm a fan of it, 'cause it gives you a quick edge on opponent following Ritual'ing out a Beater. Or the classic ritual + thoughtseize + confidant/Hymn, utterly own their hand. Follow next turn sinkhole their only land, they would be SOo pissed ROFL!

If you have 4, try it out or Proxy some, play a friend and see if you like it otherwise you can always go back.

[Mr. Durden]

Thanks! I'll try it out proxied with friends then see if I can borrow some for the next tournamnet.

[dal9ll]

Hello everyone!

Ive been following this thread for a little while as a lurker but decided to register and start contributing! These are great forums and Im glad to be a part of them.

Anyway, regarding Black Suicide, I have a question about Meekstone and Nantuko Shade. If I pump up a Shade to equal to or above power 3 to attack it will still be able to untap on my untap step with Meekstone out, right?

Also, Id like to post my deck on here for some critique. Id like to note that Phyrexian Negator and Bitterblossom are not cards that I feel fit in Black Sui. Theres too much direct damage and aggro in my meta to justify running Negator, and I have personal qualms with Blossom. Its obviously a great card but I feel there are much better turn 2 plays than a Bitterblossom. Sure its great when running the Contamination lock and/or Bad Moon, but I feel its out of place in an aggro-heavy version of Black Sui. Here’s my list:

4 Carnophage
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sarcomancy
4 Nantuko Shade

4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtsieze
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Snuff Out
1 Extirpate

4 Wasteland
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Urborg
13 Swamp

SB:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
3 Duress
1 Dystopia
2 Withered Wretch
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

PS: Is Extirpate considered a graveyard-hate card? It seems like it is game-breaking against Cephalid Breakfast, Dredge, and many other graveyard-reliant decks.

Thanks a ton everyone!

[Arsenal]

Negator is 100% win or 100% lose. There's very little 'in-between' with him. If you resolve him versus control, combo (assuming they aren't holding turn 1 win), and non-red aggro-control, there's a strong chance you'll ride him to victory behind removal + disruption.

Personally, I still run him. He has some synergy with Tombstalker and he is the best beater black has to offer for the mana cost. True, he sucks versus decks packing red, but I'll accept that if it means I'll trample down the throats of the other 4 colors in Magic.

[Dark Ritual]

Extirpate is a GY hate card definately. It is THE best card against ichorid because they can do nothing about it at all unless they lay chalice at 1 which would be very strange because most lists don't even run chalice out of the sideboard anyways.

Negator is a high risk high reward type card. It is a meta choice but you can always board the card out and I would encourage you to board the card out if you facing any type of deck that runs burn because it will be terrible if they manage to bolt it when you're low on permanents

[Raindown]

4 Carnophage
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Dark Confidant
4 Sarcomancy
4 Nantuko Shade

4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtsieze
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Snuff Out
1 Extirpate

4 Wasteland
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Urborg
13 Swamp

SB:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Plague
3 Extirpate
3 Duress
1 Dystopia
2 Withered Wretch
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

How competitive is something like this? or this deck type in general?

[dal9ll]

Im sorry I dont quite understand the question... Yes, I think this deck can hold its own in a competitive Legacy environment. Sure it may not have 4 Sinkhole (yet) but my testing has shown it can absolutely hold its own against Solidarity, Cephalid Breakfast, Landstill, and Burn. Its more of a "sligh" direction in the deck, with every spell costing 2 or less (after I replace Hippie with Sinkhole).

I'll also say that Im NOT a fan of Tombstalker in this deck. IMO taking 8 up the ass with Bob in play makes it not worth running, especially since you need to Delve for 5-6 (which isnt very viable reight away) just to make him worth it.

[JeroenC]

Burn and Cephalid Breakfast are subpar, and Solidarity is hardly played. Saying you can win against those decks is great, but means absolutely nothing.

[Arsenal]

Im sorry I dont quite understand the question... Yes, I think this deck can hold its own in a competitive Legacy environment. Sure it may not have 4 Sinkhole (yet) but my testing has shown it can absolutely hold its own against Solidarity, Cephalid Breakfast, Landstill, and Burn. Its more of a "sligh" direction in the deck, with every spell costing 2 or less (after I replace Hippie with Sinkhole).

I'll also say that Im NOT a fan of Tombstalker in this deck. IMO taking 8 up the ass with Bob in play makes it not worth running, especially since you need to Delve for 5-6 (which isnt very viable reight away) just to make him worth it.

If you run fetchlands, 8-12 discard spells, and Dark Ritual, getting 5-6 cards in the yard by turn 3/4 isn't unrealistic. And a resolved Stalker is tough to beat.

[coraz86]

If you run fetchlands, 8-12 discard spells, and Dark Ritual, getting 5-6 cards in the yard by turn 3/4 isn't unrealistic. And a resolved Stalker is tough to beat.

True story. It's a lucky draw, but I've fetched and double-Ritualed into turn one Stalker a handful of times. I seem to remember winning all of them.

As much as I used to love the 1-cc 2/2 plan, I really don't think it's viable anymore. I grew up on Rath-block Standard and I'd love to be proven wrong, but it seems unlikely to me.

In the list provided, I'd put Tombstalker in the Sarcomancy slot, and cut the Carnophages for two SDTs and at least one more Snuff Out. If not the third Snuff Out, that last slot really should be the fourth Thoughtseize or third Therapy (probably the former).

I've played at least five hundred games with sui variants including both Bobs and Tombstalkers. The interaction has been an issue exactly twice. Maybe I'm lucky, but they're each really good for the deck and they don't butt heads often enough to matter. I run a couple Tops to smooth out the late game, so you could do that if you're really worried about it.

[dal9ll]

Id like to note thats its much more likely to flip a Tokmbstalker with a Bob than it is to double-Ritual, etc. into a Turn one Tombstalker. It seems as though your experience has taught you one thing and mine has taught me another.

Regarding your other suggestions, coraz, SDT is very interesting. It fits the curve and the goal of the deck well I think. Personally however, Ive only infrequently felt the need to put more CA into the deck due to Bob plus heavy, heavy discard. I'll see how it does in testing!


I may drop a couple Sarcos/Carnos to get another Sieze/Therapy as thats not a bad idea at all. I am in a sort of Goblin-heavy meta though where T1 Sarco/Carno puts a swift stop to Lackey sillyness.

Thanks for the advice.

[boltking]

Do you think nyxathid would be a viable creature in this deck? Ive tested a similiar build and nyxathid can be a house. Im not a big fan of carnophage there must be something better to put in place of him.