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Thread: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

  1. #2121

    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Shanghi Knights View Post
    I have a hypothetical idea. What if against particularly say the landstill match all lands were destroyed? I say this as in early game as well, say its turn 8 or so only about 4 or so lands on each side. Would this just train wreck control match ups?
    Good ol' decree of annihilation, eh.

  2. #2122
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Against Landstill, Blood Moon is already huge. There's no need to rage at their manabase. Blood Moon shuts down their draw engine-enabler, and their main win-con. Also, Sulfur Elemental helps a lot, shutting down Elspeths and Decrees. With both Moon and Sulfur, they need to find Nevinyrral's Disk soon, otherwise it's gg. Ah, and they can only win with that mono Eternal Dragon. Unluckily, it's not always like that, because we play against living beings, not puppets, and they can answer our plays. That's why Landstill is not that good of a matchup for us. The cool thing is that Sulfur has Split Second, meaning basically when you sneak it into play it's an instant speed, one-sided Wrath of God sticked to a 3/2 body. For . I just can't conceive this deck without SE. It trades with Rhox War Monk, Loxodon Hierarch, Jotun Grunt, gets rid of those immortal-persisting Kitchen Finks, shuts down Elspeth, and if you're lucky enough to have 2 of them on the battlefield (re-ugh...) your opponent can't cast Sculler, Meddling Mage, Gaddock, Qasali Pridemage, and Silver Knight. And it gets rid of the fearsome Burrenton Forge-Tender if we're on the draw. Amazing. I will never regret those 2€ I payed for a 4x-set.
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Devil View Post
    Against Landstill, Blood Moon is already huge. There's no need to rage at their manabase. Blood Moon shuts down their draw engine-enabler, and their main win-con. Also, Sulfur Elemental helps a lot, shutting down Elspeths and Decrees. With both Moon and Sulfur, they need to find Nevinyrral's Disk soon, otherwise it's gg. Ah, and they can only win with that mono Eternal Dragon. Unluckily, it's not always like that, because we play against living beings, not puppets, and they can answer our plays. That's why Landstill is not that good of a matchup for us. The cool thing is that Sulfur has Split Second, meaning basically when you sneak it into play it's an instant speed, one-sided Wrath of God sticked to a 3/2 body. For . I just can't conceive this deck without SE. It trades with Rhox War Monk, Loxodon Hierarch, Jotun Grunt, gets rid of those immortal-persisting Kitchen Finks, shuts down Elspeth, and if you're lucky enough to have 2 of them on the battlefield (re-ugh...) your opponent can't cast Sculler, Meddling Mage, Gaddock, Qasali Pridemage, and Silver Knight. And it gets rid of the fearsome Burrenton Forge-Tender if we're on the draw. Amazing. I will never regret those 2€ I payed for a 4x-set.
    While I do agree that right now Sulfur Elemental might have passed Taurean again, the problem with this is that most of these cards aren't really run, or shouldn't be. Going in order:

    Rhox War Monk: Is terrible, and once people figure it out, they'll stop running it.

    Loxodon Hierarch: Nobody runs it. I think I was the last.

    Jotun Grunt: Is terrible and rarely run.

    Kitchen Finks: Shows up in very little not named Survival.

    Elspeth, Knight-Errant: Your best argument. Sulfur Elemental owns Elspeth.

    As for all the others except Sculler and Silver Knight (Nobody runs those either), your odds of getting 2 down in a deck with no draw are astronomically low, and if you only have one down, said threat beats you down for three instead of two. Unless, of course, you trade the Sulfur for it, in which case you won't get two down by virtue of the first one being dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    While I do agree that right now Sulfur Elemental might have passed Taurean again, the problem with this is that most of these cards aren't really run, or shouldn't be. Going in order:

    Rhox War Monk: Is terrible, and once people figure it out, they'll stop running it.

    Loxodon Hierarch: Nobody runs it. I think I was the last.

    Jotun Grunt: Is terrible and rarely run.

    Kitchen Finks: Shows up in very little not named Survival.

    Elspeth, Knight-Errant: Your best argument. Sulfur Elemental owns Elspeth.

    As for all the others except Sculler and Silver Knight (Nobody runs those either), your odds of getting 2 down in a deck with no draw are astronomically low, and if you only have one down, said threat beats you down for three instead of two. Unless, of course, you trade the Sulfur for it, in which case you won't get two down by virtue of the first one being dead.
    Actually I run both Mauler and Sulfur as 3-ofs. The main reason I run Sulfur is because my meta is very unpredictable. There are always Merfolk/Zoo/Goblins, but sometimes I see Bant/Landstill/Zoo, and a few rock decks. Sulfur helps against some of them, plus, has Split Second. The thing it kills random x/2s was just to force someway his usufulness: I don't rely on that, mainly because there's no cantrip or draw engine to help out finding a second copy of SE; also, I run 3x, lessening the % of drawing 2 of them. I find it to be nice sometimes, as it gives this deck tricks it couldn't normally have. I already said that I had 2 cards in hand, a RPD and a morphed Gathan, my opponent attacked, and I insta-played the Sulfur + dumped my cards to block ALL of his creatures and kill him the next turn. This barely happens, but it can. Now, assuming I'm a terrible player, I just wanted to point out the fact that Sulfur deserves a chance. I like him, that's why I was trying to praise him even talking about corner-cases. From an apathyc point of view, Sulfur is good as it is a threat which can only be dealt with when it's on the table (except for those lucky Cbalance flips), and helps improving the Landstill matchup. I know you're right, because taste somehow interferes with brainstorming. Sulfur is a fine card. That said, I sometimes acknowledge his superiority.
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  5. #2125
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    the reason i am thinking of raging on lands is once i get a goblin assault up and running with a strong creature, i'm thinking why do i want there to be any mana on the board for someone to use cop red and disk on me. this is particular in the match ups that just don't drop creatures to fight but rather wipe the board with damnation or even wrath very soon after you get your main attack force set up.

    true its not the best plan but since the deck packs chrome mox and red pitch monkey it can easily recover from a land wipe.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital Devil View Post
    Actually I run both Mauler and Sulfur as 3-ofs. The main reason I run Sulfur is because my meta is very unpredictable. There are always Merfolk/Zoo/Goblins, but sometimes I see Bant/Landstill/Zoo, and a few rock decks. Sulfur helps against some of them, plus, has Split Second. The thing it kills random x/2s was just to force someway his usufulness: I don't rely on that, mainly because there's no cantrip or draw engine to help out finding a second copy of SE; also, I run 3x, lessening the % of drawing 2 of them. I find it to be nice sometimes, as it gives this deck tricks it couldn't normally have. I already said that I had 2 cards in hand, a RPD and a morphed Gathan, my opponent attacked, and I insta-played the Sulfur + dumped my cards to block ALL of his creatures and kill him the next turn. This barely happens, but it can. Now, assuming I'm a terrible player, I just wanted to point out the fact that Sulfur deserves a chance. I like him, that's why I was trying to praise him even talking about corner-cases. From an apathyc point of view, Sulfur is good as it is a threat which can only be dealt with when it's on the table (except for those lucky Cbalance flips), and helps improving the Landstill matchup. I know you're right, because taste somehow interferes with brainstorming. Sulfur is a fine card. That said, I sometimes acknowledge his superiority.
    I don't assume you're a terrible player at all. If anything, it's skilled players that tend to favor Sulfur Elemental. He's tricksy. Mauler sits there and gets big without any brain power. Sulfur Elemental is a sneaky little puma. I have more fun with the deck, personally, when it's packing Sulfur Elementals. And I believe that in cases where cards are very close in power, going with the one that stimulates your brain is probably the better call, as you'll generally play the deck better as long as you don't cross over into trying to do something so cool that you hurt your board position.

    Sulfur Elemental's three biggest selling points, IMHO, are as follows, in order.

    1. It's an instant speed blocker, making it psuedo-removal.
    2. It can't be countered.
    3. It bites people who play Elspeth and Decree of Justice in the cock.

    In exchange, it has to compete with Mauler's current selling points, in order.

    1. It's an incredibly efficient drop in the first two turns, easily capable of reaching remove-or-die status.

    (Massive Gap)

    2. It protects your Slogger / RPD / Raiders from Goblins' Warren Weirdings.
    3. It grows off Lord of Atlantis.

    So given your metagame, a split might be the right call, though I'm highly curious how you're fitting six of them in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I've always enjoyed playing sulfur elemental in this deck, but I also enjoy playing taurean mauler. I don't own any maulers, though, so I've been running sulfur elemental every time I've played the deck lately, and it always seems to be fine to me.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    I don't assume you're a terrible player at all. If anything, it's skilled players that tend to favor Sulfur Elemental. He's tricksy. Mauler sits there and gets big without any brain power. Sulfur Elemental is a sneaky little puma. I have more fun with the deck, personally, when it's packing Sulfur Elementals. And I believe that in cases where cards are very close in power, going with the one that stimulates your brain is probably the better call, as you'll generally play the deck better as long as you don't cross over into trying to do something so cool that you hurt your board position.

    Sulfur Elemental's three biggest selling points, IMHO, are as follows, in order.

    1. It's an instant speed blocker, making it psuedo-removal.
    2. It can't be countered.
    3. It bites people who play Elspeth and Decree of Justice in the cock.

    In exchange, it has to compete with Mauler's current selling points, in order.

    1. It's an incredibly efficient drop in the first two turns, easily capable of reaching remove-or-die status.

    (Massive Gap)

    2. It protects your Slogger / RPD / Raiders from Goblins' Warren Weirdings.
    3. It grows off Lord of Atlantis.

    So given your metagame, a split might be the right call, though I'm highly curious how you're fitting six of them in there.
    I used to run 4 Taurean Maulers, and didn't have any problem with that. I read somewhere on this thread 3 is the right number, as it can sometimes be a terrible topdeck. Then, I decided trying to cut a Mauler. I had a single slot available. I used to run 4x Sloggers, for obvious reasons. I tried cutting a Slogger, to fit in 2x Sulfur Elemental. The more I played them, the more I wished I had more SE in my deck. I finally cut another Slogger, going down to 2. That's because I noticed in many many games I won due to Gathan Raiders/RPD/Moon, and had that 4/5 stuck in my hand. Also, I lost the decisive match in a tournament, simply because I topdecked Arc-Slogger, and didn't have enough mana. I don't rely on it anymore. I found it to be much more of a late game card, giving reach to deal the final points of damage. I never ever wanted to go T1 Song-Slogger. I'd rather play Chalice or a Moon, to ensure victory. Also, I run only 2x Jitte. I really hate the "Legendary" clause. As it's for Arc-Slogger, I run 2, because I don't rely on them. I play them essentially to improve the aggro matchup. Creatures are getting bigger, and Jitte essentially needs to charge for 3 turns to kill a creature. I use it mainly for the +4/+4 thingie. To kill a Goyf, I have to connect my attack 3 times. I'd rather deal 12 extra damage. Also, I'd like to have a well-rounded all-purpose build. I just want to say, at the end of each of my eventual losses, "If only I drew that card...". I just don't want to give up things. That's why my build looks kinda insane, and since it is pure madness running 2xs and 1xs in a deck like this, now you can understand why I call myself a bad player. I don't want to be moved by the flow, I act just like salmons do. It's a helluva terrible paragon, but that's how I reason. There are things which I like, and others that I dislike. Also, I'd rather lose with my own build than win with someone else's. BTW, my insane experiment is as follows:

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x City of Traitors
    10x Mountain

    4x Gathan Raiders
    4x Rakdos Pit-Dragon
    4x Magus of the Instant Victory
    4x SSG
    3x Taurean Mauler
    3x Sulfur Elemental
    2x Arc-Slogger (for the reasons I listed)
    1x Ingot Chewer (I wanted another drop 5, but wanted to occasionally throw it away with a cheap investment, if needed. I don't play 2+ because, as said on the first pages, it would be the recipe for disaster. I don't want to explain that further. That's because if a well-known and good player packs a 1x is tech, and if a terrible player like me does the same, it's a bad choice. Don't blame my choices, blame me for being what I am. I still need to improve myself as a MTG-player)

    4x Book of Etiquette a.k.a. Chalice (it is good education to avoid the other person lays the table, offer him a good drink)
    4x Seething Song
    4x Chrome Mox
    3x Blood Moon of Instant Victory
    2x Umezawa's Jitte

    MEAN MEN'S BENCH
    3x Pyrokinesis of the f****n' terrible topdeck (that's why I run 3)
    3x Trinisphere (they say one shouldn't maindeck more than 3 because it sucks in multiples and it's a terrible topdeck, but I think those thing apply even if you board them in)
    2x Pithing Needle (James Mink played 1x @Chicago - it doesn't mean the card choice was optimal, just to say someone was more insane than me)
    2x Flametongue Kavu (additional removal which avoids Needle and can't be Counterbalanced with FoW looks good - plus, it kills immediately the turn it comes into play, without additional mana - thx Taco for the suggestion on page number-I-don't-remember)
    2x Sword of Light and Shadow and of the insults they say you when you board it against Landstill/Stax/Rock
    1x Sulfur Elemental (usually when I don't see mainboard artifacts I switch the md Chewer with this - also useful against Landstill)
    1x Ingot Chewer (secret tech against Ichorid/Faerie Stompy/Dreadstill)
    1x -meta slot- (now it is filled with 1x Gaea's Blessing - Spring Tide, Elfball w/ Brain Freeze and both mono and U/R Imperial Painter are in my meta. If the meta changes, it can be the third Jitte, the fourth Moon/Pyro/Trini, or an additional Slogger)
    This is my abomination. The only thing I have to blame on is when bad luck forces you to mull over and over. But bad luck doesn't exist. We're used to point our fingers at it, but the real fact is that sometimes we aren't able to succesfully finish something, and can't just accept it. That said, I'm pretty happy with my deck. Also, I have to thank you all because you're contributing to improve this awesome deck, and helped me with my ideas. Unfortunately, my "help" is almost worthless. I hope my posts can somehow help someone.

    @Taco or anyone else - am I that far from a standard DS build? Also, has anyone tried the Sulfur+Mauler split or am I alone in the dark?
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    pardon me i see SSG abbreviation several times in this thread. But I'm drawing a blank as to which card it stands for.
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Fix it View Post
    pardon me i see SSG abbreviation several times in this thread. But I'm drawing a blank as to which card it stands for.
    Simian Spirit Guide.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    I'm going to bang my head against the deck now, some how that should of been obvious to me. Yet i couldn't make that connection.
    -If it needs a repair you have a problem, if I smash it, it's now fixed as you now don't have to repair it!-

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    While I do agree that right now Sulfur Elemental might have passed Taurean again, the problem with this is that most of these cards aren't really run, or shouldn't be. Going in order:

    Jotun Grunt: Is terrible and rarely run.
    @ Tacosnape, with all due respect, Jotun Grunt is not rarely run. Anything playing white will have them; if not main deck then in the sideboard.

    While I don't agree that Threshold is the best deck in the Legacy format right now, the experts and the statistics beg to differ. Between Goblins and U/G, U/G/R/, U/G/B Threshold, that made up almost half the metagame at Gen Con and Worlds last year.

    Grunt is five star against threshold and they played a huge part in Chris Bergeson's Boros Decks Wins making it to the finals of GenCon. Any pro player who played a white based deck at Worlds last year in the Legacy format had at least three (3) of them main decked or boarded.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Okay, nothing about that post is true. Nothing. Let's shore up the Jotun Grunt discussion right now, because people are using it as a means of boosting Sulfur Elemental. This is not an argument against Sulfur Elemental. It's merely destroying a false pretense for hyping it.

    1. White decks don't pack Jotun Grunt. Nothing currently runs Jotun Grunt. Relic of Progenitus exists. Not only is Relic better than Grunt, Relic also KILLS Grunt. Plus, most good players have realized by now that Jotun Grunt is terrible.

    2. Grunt isn't good against Threshold. Countertop lists only have Tarmogoyf affected. It affects all of Tempo Thresh's threats, and it's -still- garbage against them because it won't go the distance and their threat will regrow.

    3. Not once, ever, in the entire history of legacy, has Jotun Grunt been a correct choice for any maindeck or sideboard. Ever. Period. I don't care if you're Gabriel Nassif or the lord Jesus Christ reborn. If you EVER ran Jotun Grunt in Legacy, you made a deck construction mistake. This includes me, as I've played Grunt as much as most people. I thought it was one of the best things ever when it came out. But there has ALWAYS been a better choice. People just haven't always found it.

    Therefore, despite all of Sulfur Elemental's other awesome qualities, arguing that Sulfur Elemental is good against it is only a valid argument if you're playing in a metagame where you know for a fact, by knowing specific people with specific decks that run Grunt, that you have a good chance of encountering it on any given day.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Okay, nothing about that post is true. Nothing. Let's shore up the Jotun Grunt discussion right now, because people are using it

    Not once, ever, in the entire history of legacy, has Jotun Grunt been a correct choice for any maindeck or sideboard. Ever. Period.
    Tacosnape, you could not be anymore factually incorrect. Even if your opinion is to be respected, which is hard for me to do right now when you contradict yourself. What you have advanced is contrary to the stone cold facts.

    If nothing in my previous post were true like you claim, "nothing" then witness for example the following:

    Chris Bergeson
    Gen Con 2008 - Top 8 - 2nd Place

    Main Deck

    60 cards
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Flooded Strand
    4 Mountain
    2 Plains
    4 Plateau
    3 Windswept Heath
    3 Wooded Foothills
    20 lands

    4 Goblin Legionnaire
    3 Grim Lavamancer
    3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    3 Jötun Grunt [emphasis added]
    4 Savannah Lions
    17 creatures


    John Sittner
    2007 Worlds, Legacy (6-0 round robin record)

    Main Deck

    60 cards
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Tundra
    1 Wasteland
    17 lands

    2 Mystic Enforcer
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Tarmogoyf
    10 creatures

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Counterbalance
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Ponder
    4 Predict
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    33 other spells

    Sideboard

    2 Blue Elemental Blast
    1 Hydroblast
    2 Jotun Grunt [emphasis added]
    2 Krosan Grip
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    15 sideboard cards

    So please explain to me how that was wrong? Please explain to me how that is not a proven fact? The fact is, it is trite to say that the only person that is dead wrong by providing information that is false and inaccurate is yourself Tacosnape. You erroneously claim that (according to you) people don't use Grunt and never have and further that he has NEVER been a correct choice for ANY main deck or sideboard. Well I disagree with you and apparently so does at least two other pro players that made it far in the two most competitive Legacy tournaments out there with grunts maindeck and sideboard respectively.

    There is really no point arguing this matter any further as this is an issue of fact; not a matter of opinion. Grunt was playable in Legacy, was used by pro players in both the main deck and sideboard and you are ostensibly wrong in that regard. Moreover, it is a palpable and overriding fact that one of the primary reasons why Bergeson did so well at Gen Con and made the top 8 was because the meta had so much Threshold and the Grunts were studs and tech in those match ups as he articulated in his pre-finals match up interview with Blake Patrow (who had a deck with no graveyard effects).

    In any event, your comment "Not once, ever, in the entire history of legacy, has Jotun Grunt been a correct choice for any main deck or sideboard" has no merit and clearly solidifies you as an amateur player (not that there is anything wrong with that) just don't pretend you know what you are talking about, or ever knew what you were talking about for that matter.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    So two random guys included some jotun grunts a year or more ago, that makes the card legacy playable? And one of them was from a gencon top eight? Taco never said people didn't ever play grunt, just that it was a mistake if they did. And both those lists are extremely outdated and nobody would choose to play them if they had a choice.

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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Death and Taxes wants to talk to you, Grunt-haters...

    On topic: Sulfur Elemental is a beast against Death and Taxes (Mangara, Flickerwisp) and White Weenie (Mother of Runes, Soltari Priest, Weathered Wayfarer). So if theese decks are in your meta (low chances that happen), Sulfur is a good choice.
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    Talking about Sulfur Elemental, I just wanted to list some of the white creatures it is possible to see around. I know Jotun is built-in card disadvantage, that's why I don't play it in my Angel Stompy build. It's just like Extirpate. It's not so good, but people still run it. I see it in some Zoo lists, Mexican Weenies, and even UGW Fish decks (recurring it with ninja), which are all played in my meta. That's why I play Sulfur. Also, I wanted to build, talking about abstract things, an all-purpose deck, meaning I wanted to have tricks and answers which could help me if there were things like a universal meta. I know a "general meta" doesn't exist, that's why I tailored my sideboard to fight the decks I can actually encounter. MD is just a 60-cards stack which I want to play at its best, meaning I don't want to leave anything uncovered. Sulfur is good on its own. If it kills random Grunts or Loxodon Hierarchs it's just a +10 points to its score. I don't run Sulfur Elemental because it kills Grunts. I run it because I like to pawn Elspeth and Burrenton Forge-Tender. Period. Generally speaking, I also saw Jans Jager, or someone whose name's like that, top8ing with Nourishing Lich in 2006. It doesn't mean it is a good deck, or its card choice were optimal. I mean, I run Ingot Chewer, and I still win. I'm not a good player, but if I win it isn't because of Chewer. 2 people top8ing with Jotun Grunt doesn't say anything. It's good to know it is (or at least it was) still played, but it's not the reason I play Sulfur, or it should be played. If you want to talk about that 4/4, open a [SCD] thread. We're talking about Dragon Stompy. If you like a card, explain why. I've already done that.

    P.S. I didn't mean to generate that kind of flame XD XD
    P.P.S. Taco got my point. I don't mean the others are wrong, I'm just saying he did understand me. When Coldsnap was originally released, I used to play Jotun Grunt, too. It was because there were no alternatives. Now there are. I mean, he's still playable, but it's not so good as it was in 2006. It's far easier to face Tarmogay =)
    0.05.14 [Digital Devil] <Digital Devil> Ach! Hans, run! It's the Tarmogoyf!
    0.05.17 [Hans (GER)] <Hans (GER)> ...
    0.05.20 [<System>] <System> Player Lost

  18. #2138
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    If anything's an exception, it might be Death and Taxes, due to the weird tricks the deck can pull off. It's still probably a terrible idea though.

    Also, the Bergeson list is crap, and the John Sittner deck was an early-era Countertop list that while pretty solid, had absolutely no business packing two Grunts in the sideboard. It got there because it was Countertop and at the time, nothing was as prepared to deal with Countertop as it was now.

    In simpler terms, I could put Jotun Grunt IN DRAGON STOMPY's sideboard, and if I randomly go 6-0 in a large tournament on the back of Blood Moons and Chalices and ridiculous broken openings, I still can't claim Jotun Grunt was a good card.

    I do agree with Firemind that Sulfur Elemental is a monster against the cards/decks he listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  19. #2139
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    [QUOTE nobody would choose to play them if they had a choice.[/QUOTE]

    Is that so? Well both these top pro players had choices and they both freely and voluntarily chose to play grunt. Moreover, they aren't just "two random players". They are players that represent the two best records at GenCon and the Worlds in the Legacy format respectively. So how did they make a mistake when they both posted flawless 6-0 records with their alleged bad calls with the Grunts being a pivotal tech decision for Bergeson?

    Wow, now this is amusing. Here we have an amateur player (at best) telling a pro player he had no business using a pivotal metagame call (at the time) in his sideboard at the World championships. Could you be any more egotistical? Could you be anymore wrong?

    What I find most perplexing is the self contradiction on grunt against tempo U/R/G and B/G/U threshold. Grunts are tech against those decks. They are the only reason why Bergeson made the top 8. He beat 4 threshold decks in the round robin and praised them on being keys to all his victories over various threshold decks at Gencon. Now, I am not an advocate for cutting silver knights for grunts but he did and he owned threshold for it. His deck was fast and brought heavy and efficient beats to the table. Yet Taco's conjectured statement was as follows:

    “They are garbage against them because it won't go the distance and their threat will regrow.”

    There threats will never regrow in time with a 4 beater going nuts on their little tiny Goyfs and 1/1 Mongooses. Plus with all the burn he was packing they will never recover and regrow in time and he proved me right in this regard. Four games in a row against four different top threshold players grunts went all the way in Boros deck wins so please, don't patronize me.

    As far as how it relates to dragon stompy, well the issue pertaining to flametongue kavu in this deck came up and what creatures it can take out. Taco erroneously mentioned it was useless because a lot of the 4 good, 4 toughness creatures were not playable anymore. He was wrong in large measure. In any event, the fact remains whether you agree or not a lot of those creatures are still played in competitive tournaments whether they are for all the right or wrong reasons. Therefore if you want to play Kavu in this deck it is not a terrible choice; especially in the right meta, especially in the sideboard.

  20. #2140
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    Re: [Deck] Dragon Stompy

    for decks running grunt i usually find powder keg to be more efficient. Anything it doesn't hit can usually be dealt with by our creatures, if not lets hope were in hellbent. though sulfur can deal with grunt, i would just board him out if the opposing deck wasn't majority of problematic white creatures.

    should bloodfire kavu be given a chance in maguses spot the tibal match ups? anyone tried him before? (my thinking is stuff like goblins will kill magus so i kinda think hes a dead card in such match ups, as well as merfolk all magus stops is maybe waste and mutavault.)

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