[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Media314r8]

Maze of ith is an interesting concept, but it undoubtedly pulls goblins into the controlling midgame, as you cannot run it in place of lands, you have to replace sting, incinerator, ect with it, as it serves as quasi-removal/'fuck your jitte/huge dude.' Maze of ith can generally only come down turn two after a turn one vial, or on turn three after a turn two frogtosser. (i think a maze build would have to be Rb, as it has more late-game inevitability in addition to earwig squad) I'm not sure such a controlling game is what goblins wants to be doing, as you can just play landstill or CBthresh if you want to be a midgame aggro-control or a late game deck. MazeGoblins would have the alternate plan of T1 lackey, win I suppose. I will test this as well and report back.

Also, second on Lightning crafter. That guy is absolutely the bees' knees.

[P.S.]

If you're trying to race an opposing aggro deck via Maze of Ith, wouldn't you just lose to them drawing a Wasteland? Seems like Meekstone would be better as it doesn't shut down any of your dudes and will shut down Tarmogoyf, Wild Nacatl, Knight of the Reliquary, Woolly Thoctar, Rhox War Monk, Nimble Mongoose, Werebear, etc.

I still like Crevasses:

[ScatmanX]

@P.S.: mind posting your lands and SB?

[P.S.]

@P.S.: mind posting your lands and SB?

SPELLS (5)
4 Aether Vial
1 Final Fortune

CREATURES (33)
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Pyromancer
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
3 Mogg Fanatic
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector

LANDS (22)
18 Snow-Covered Mountain
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Goblin King
4 Pyroblast
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Glacial Crevasses
2 Tormod's Crypt

I'm back-and-forth on the Goblin King. Sometimes he's a Stingscourger instead. The match-ups I care about are: ANT, CB, Zoo, Thresh, Dredge, Goblins.

Biggest glaring omission is probably not running any mainboard Stingscourger. The only card I don't really like too much is Skirk Prospector and I like the ability he gives me better against creatureless or creature-light decks. Plus he's a sac outlet if I have to win via Sharpshooter against a Moat or something. I've always liked the 1x Final Fortune in the deck. Even ran it at Grand Prix Philly a couple years back. If my opponent sees it, I.E. I cast it or it's revealed with a Ringleader, I side it out. They'll play around it once they see it anyway.

[from Cairo]

Cutting some number of SGC might be the right move. SGC has always been the late game "oh, shit" for our opponent, a card that gives the deck inevitability.
Time passed by, and new goblins were printed. Right now I'd prefer to be sure about landing a lord on turn 3, rather than having a SGC on turn 5. I'd still run 1 to have a tutorable one to give us reach and still dominate the late game, but running more than one might become overkill, cause Goblins is indeed a deck with already a huge late game, thanks to its draw engine.

While I'm totally loving Chieftain, and have always liked Warchief, I feel like Siege Gang Commander has incredible synergy with both; not to mention the Lackey -> SGC = GG scenario that still comes up from time to time. I'm still running 3, as I really like it's mid-game ability to turn the tides, which is something that a top decked Lord can't always do with out some board position.

I'm currently running 23 land with Gemstone Caverns too though, so my manabase is built to support a bit heavier curve.

[GreenOne]

While I'm totally loving Chieftain, and have always liked Warchief, I feel like Siege Gang Commander has incredible synergy with both; not to mention the Lackey -> SGC = GG scenario that still comes up from time to time. I'm still running 3, as I really like it's mid-game ability to turn the tides, which is something that a top decked Lord can't always do with out some board position.

I'm currently running 23 land with Gemstone Caverns too though, so my manabase is built to support a bit heavier curve.

The lackey -> SGC indeed comes up from time to time, and indeed comes more often if you're running 3 SGC. Fact is, when lackey is connecting you're likely to win, even if you put a 3-4cc drop into play. Even the goldfish speed is not decreased much if you drop a Chieftain instead of a SGC. (SGC+ lackey swings for 6, Lackey+Chieftain swings for 4, but your creatures also have haste, so you're likely swing with another dude too for 6 or 7 total).
If lackey connects on turn 3, you can also matron for SGC before attacking.

SGC does a lot of great things for the deck: it's a bomb during a stall, gives the deck reach, has an awesome sinergy with both the chiefs, gempalm, piledriver, stingscourger and Marshall. It's also a threat on its own.
Unfortunately he doesn't do those things until late turns, when our game is already quite good, being often win more, and often uncastable in games where you really need it.

I'm playing with 23 lands too (right now 4 Wastes, 3 Ports, but likely cutting the 3rd port for a Mountain). How often do you find yourself with an uncastable SGC, hoping it to be something else? 3 seems indeed a high number, as I've always played with 2 in the last two years.

EDIT: playing with 4 chieftains also make you laugh of E.Plague, freeing some number of SB slots.

[Zinch]

The lackey -> SGC indeed comes up from time to time, and indeed comes more often if you're running 3 SGC. Fact is, when lackey is connecting you're likely to win, even if you put a 3-4cc drop into play. Even the goldfish speed is not decreased much if you drop a Chieftain instead of a SGC. (SGC+ lackey swings for 6, Lackey+Chieftain swings for 4, but your creatures also have haste, so you're likely swing with another dude too for 6 or 7 total).
If lackey connects on turn 3, you can also matron for SGC before attacking.

SGC does a lot of great things for the deck: it's a bomb during a stall, gives the deck reach, has an awesome sinergy with both the chiefs, gempalm, piledriver, stingscourger and Marshall. It's also a threat on its own.
Unfortunately he doesn't do those things until late turns, when our game is already quite good, being often win more, and often uncastable in games where you really need it.

I'm playing with 23 lands too (right now 4 Wastes, 3 Ports, but likely cutting the 3rd port for a Mountain). How often do you find yourself with an uncastable SGC, hoping it to be something else? 3 seems indeed a high number, as I've always played with 2 in the last two years.

EDIT: playing with 4 chieftains also make you laugh of E.Plague, freeing some number of SB slots.

I don't agree with you GreenOne... If the Goblin deck shines in one thing is on beeing a very agressive deck with a very good lategame plan.
If you cut SGC for chieftains you are diluting that lategame plan, because you are lowing the number of lategame bombs, and also you are cutting a CA engine, because with the cost of 1 card, you get 4 goblins (for gempalm, piledriver or simple reach).

Yo say How often do you find yourself with an uncastable SGC, hoping it to be something else? . Well... almost never! I play a mono red deck with 23 lands and 3 SGC and always have something to do with the mana until I reach 5 lands (or 4 lands with a warchief). With 4 ringleaders and 4 matrons there's always something to do with the mana. Also, if your ringleader or your matron gets countered, what would you like to have in hand: a chieftain or a SGC?

I've played with less than 3 SGC (with only 1 for a long time), and since I tested with 3 I never looked back. With less SGC I lose much more games in wich I connected with the Lackey.

Just my 2 cents.

[Jaynel]

Warren Instigator
RR
Mythic
Creature - Goblin Berserker
Double Strike
Whenever Warren Instigator deals damage to an opponent, you may put a Goblin creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
1/1

DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING HOLY SHIT

[Pastorofmuppets]

Warren Instigator
RR
Mythic
Creature - Goblin Berserker
Double Strike
Whenever Warren Instigator deals damage to an opponent, you may put a Goblin creature card from your hand onto the battlefield.
1/1

DIDN'T SEE THIS COMING HOLY SHIT

Did I just shit myself? Yes.
Will it be used? Probably not.

[P.S.]

I don't like it.

It's a Lackey that's a turn slower and can be Spell Snared. The Double Strike doesn't even matter. In Legacy, it's just a bad Lackey. I'm sure it'll be good in Standard though.

I mean, you could get him out and pump him with stuff like Chieftain or King...but then you're playing a worse Goblin deck.

I will not be putting him in Legacy Goblins. All that speculation...for a bad Lackey.

[chokin]

Not awful, but I'm skeptical as to whether or not I'd play it.

[FoulQ]

Anyone remember the very old builds with chrome mox?

That's the only way I can see this card being implemented.

You could cut vial, add ancient tomb or something and play chalice. Or you could go for a mass of lackies. Either way it sounds not that great.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Double Strike. He drops 2 goblins. How is that not amazing?

[P.S.]

Anyone remember the very old builds with chrome mox?

That's the only way I can see this card being implemented.

Even then, it doesn't have haste, so it wouldn't matter. Like, if you go first turn this dude on the draw, you're likely staring at a Tarmogoyf or something already on their next turn. Just ugh.

Maybe that's a bad example, but you get the point.

[MMogg]

Double Strike. He drops 2 goblins. How is that not amazing?

Assuming he gets his damage through and assuming you have two more goblins to drop.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

Even then, it doesn't have haste, so it wouldn't matter. Like, if you go first turn this dude on the draw, you're likely staring at a Tarmogoyf or something already on their next turn. Just ugh.

Maybe that's a bad example, but you get the point.

True coming down turn 2 sucks. However, there are so many decks right now that dont really get going all that fast and this guy can make for turn 4 kills like no ones business. Plus in the gemstone caverns builds hes straight crazy. And if they do have goyf, that why this deck splashes black.

[Jaynel]

What about lists with Gemstone Caverns?

[P.S.]

The deck shouldn't splash black...

...and does he really get to drop two goblins with one attack? That doesn't make much sense, double strike or not.

[chokin]

The deck shouldn't splash black...

...and does he really get to drop two goblins with one attack? That doesn't make much sense, double strike or not.

deals first strike damage and then normal damage. 2 triggers.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

The deck shouldn't splash black...

...and does he really get to drop two goblins with one attack? That doesn't make much sense, double strike or not.

yeah, he does. which is why he is so sick. if he connects with matron in hand its auto siege gang. sick.