[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[Wasteland]

Lightning Bolt is for sure not to "weak" for the SB...
While not being a StoP, it is great in exactly the MU's where you need it: Zoo / Merfolk / Goblins + its superb vs decks like Sui / random aggro like white weenie etc. ...
Even vs. the Nassif.dec i would board them in (together with the red blasts) since it handles Confidants (which is the most annoying card ever vs. dreadstill) / Predator / Sower of temptation.
I've tested the bolts vs. all theese MU's now and they really help alot (still running the straight UR-List from Hannigan which i estimate to be a bit better then any list running goyfs cause of the manabase / the option to play blood moons in the SB)

So this is the build i'm going to play in Milano this WE:

//Lands:
4x flooded strand
2x polluted delta
4x mishra's factory
3x wasteland
5x island
3x volcanic island

//Creatures:
4x phyrexian dreadnought
3x trinket mage

//Other spells (blue):
4x brainstorm
4x stifle
2x trickbind
4x daze
4x standstill
4x force of will
3x counterbalance
3x spell snare

//Other artifacts:
2x sensei's divining top
1x engineered explosives
1x crucible of worlds


//SB:
2x blue elemental blast
3x red elemental blast
3x lightning bolt
2x pyroclasm
2x blood moon
1x engineered explosives
2x relic of progenitus

There still remains the possibility of cutting a standstill / daze / the crucible for an additional c-balance and a top of course.

Greetz,
Marius Hausmann

[OurSerratedDust]

How might the manabases of Ur and Urg Dreadstill be affected by the new enemy duals?

[jazzykat]

How might the manabases of Ur and Urg Dreadstill be affected by the new enemy duals?

The obvious answer is to swap in on color fetches for non-on color although I don't know if you gain that much from that. It may go even further than that, I suppose you can play a basic forest or basic mountain if you really care to at this point.

[pippo84]

Well, since enemy fetches have been confirmed I think UGR will swap to on color fetches, but I'm not sure if this will change a lot of things. Probably i'll add 1 basic forest and cut a dual. Don't think I'll care of a basic mmountain btw.. Thoughts?
And for the Lightning Bolt discussion: first of they are better than Fire/Ice, confirmed. That 1 more damage is really important and also cost 1 mana less. Also I think 3 in the sideboard are really ok. We don't have enought space for them in mainboard and are really useful only against certain Mu's.

Btw, just changed my list after the tournament. Pithing Needle goes Sideboard cutting 1 Tormod's Crypt. Just a small change..
Do you agree of the 1-1 Tormod-Relic split or since we run goyf do you prefer 2 tormods? I run a split because of Needle..

[J.V.]

I agree, no question spell snare is awesome but i think lightning bolt is to weak for the sideboard but if we pack 2 in the mainboard i feel like having a third bolt or either pack 2 fire//ice instead of the bolts as u want to burn critters.

Being Someone who has now tested both excessively, I would have to say this is 100% inaccurate, Bolt may be the strongest card in the Sideboard (maybe second to Firespout) As Marius said, Bolt is incredible in the Zoo, Merfolk, Goblin, Insert Bad Aggro deck here matchups which is what you want to be able to improve the most post board since if your not beating Aggro Control already then your playing poorly...
------------------------
As for the Enemy Fetchlands, I may be switching out 3 fetches for 3 Misty Rainforest if testing shows that a basic forest helps the deck, but There is a decent chance I won't even play one since Dreadstill always wants UU available to cast Counterbalance and I already run 7 non-U sources... The only way I'll be adding U/G fetches and Forest is if I cut a Mishra's Factory, but we'll see.

[FoolofaTook]

For Ur Dreadstill I see little impact based on enemy fetches. I'm certainly not planning to put a basic mountain in the mix, given that 14 blue sources already causes difficulty occasionally.

The one potential advantage that I can see is that I could play fewer of any individual fetchland, thus making my opening plays a little bit harder to decode now and then. 2x Polluted Delta and 1 each of the other blue fetchlands instead of 3x Polluted Delta and 2x Flooded Strand would be marginally more valuable to have in the deck. I won't buy the lands just to do that but if I got my hands on them some other way I'd probably make the switch.

[whienot]

I'm testing this manabase:

4 u/g fetch
2 delta/strand
3 M. Factory
3 Wasteland
2 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Forest

Having 4 rainforests gives additional flexibility when fetching basics.

Side thought - Will off color fetches help Pithing Needle? We now have the ability(if you choose to go with both off color fetches) to name on color fetches with the needle without hurting ourselves.

Edit: The new fetches may make Pithing Needle much more annoying to play against also.

[Wasteland]

Well, since theese are quite old now:

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=10651&page=86

I'm going to play 4 times the UR Fetchland for pimp reasons, if the picture is nice (only cause many U cards have some R in them - Force / C-balance / Brainstorm...)

[Tangle.Wire]

Here is the list I played:
Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island

Creatures:9
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:30
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
3 Spell Snare
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Daze
1 Trickbind

Sideboard:15
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Krosan Grip
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Pithing Needle

Post Tournament Conclusions:
The Main deck is damn near optimal, The only change that I keep going back an forth between is cutting a Factory for a 3rd Flooded Strand, or Leaving the 4th Factory in, I'm not entirely sure yet.

As for the sideboard, Lightning Bolt was UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE! It was excellent against Zoo and Merfolk.

Pithing Needle on the other hand was extremely underwhelming. I'm not sure what those two slots are going to be, they may go back to being Graveyard hate, but as I stated earlier, I'm not sure they're necessary.

Some days ago but J.V how are you boarding so far if you board against aggro/Zoo/Merfolk etc? is this the current build you're playing?

[J.V.]

It's very close to my current build, I cut the 2 Pithing Needle from the board for 1 Relic of Progenitus and 1 Tormod's Crypt since Ichorid is seeing more play after GenCon.

My current sideboaring strategy is as follows:
Merfolk:
On the Play:
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Firespout
-4 Force of Will
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
On the Draw:
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Red Elemental Blast
+3 Firespout
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
-2 Daze
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 Counterbalance

Zoo:
-2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-2 Daze
-1 Trickbind
-1 Engineered Explosives
-1 Spell Snare
+4 Lightning Bolt
+3 Firespout

[FoolofaTook]

Got a question on the sideboard on the play: does Aether Vial not worry you with Force of Will boarded out? I see what you're trying to do there however I'd be leery of going naked against a vial and 2x Daze isn't much protection there.

[Tangle.Wire]

Got a question on the sideboard on the play: does Aether Vial not worry you with Force of Will boarded out? I see what you're trying to do there however I'd be leery of going naked against a vial and 2x Daze isn't much protection there.

I can say that i board out standstills too if i board against aggro, so vial isnt as much annoying with bolts+firespouts (against fish also pyroblasts).

[FoolofaTook]

I completely understand boarding out Standstill. I take it out for Firespout or Blood Moon or Krosan Grip + Pithing Needle fairly often. In fact Standstill is the spell that is boarded out most often in my matches.

[J.V.]

My Logic behind this is that with the exception of Turn 1 Vial there are literally zero cards in Merfolk that require a FOW and the Merfolk match-up is very tempo oriented so the 2 for 1ing of FOW is actually relevant, also you are bringing in so many non blue cards while taking out blue cards that you greatly weaken FOW's blue count, this forces you to pitch cards you would otherwise not pitch in too many situations along with making Force of Will sometimes a Deadcard in your hand since you run so many non blue cards... Another thing to consider is that you are bringing in so much spot removal against them that sure they may have an active vial which means they can get guys into play, but it by no means says they can keep guys in Play. At this point they can waste their counters to protect their creatures, and you just Drop a Dreadnought and win.

[pippo84]

@ J.V. Have you decided between the 4th mishra and the 3rd flooded strand?
I actually play 3 strands because I don't want too many uncolored mana sources..

[J.V.]

@ J.V. Have you decided between the 4th mishra and the 3rd flooded strand?
I actually play 3 strands because I don't want too many uncolored mana sources..

I've been going back and forth, honestly my results have been basically a wash... I'm not really convinced that either is better than the other, I'd take a look at your meta and base it on that. One thing I will say is that if you see a lot of Landstill play the 4 Factory's...

[FoolofaTook]

@J.V. - Thanks for the clarification.

Do you find Merfolk to be a bad matchup at this point? Game one I don't like it at all but after the Firespouts come in it really improves a lot. Really the only thing that scares me after they're in is Aether Vial, which is why I was asking.

I tune out -3 Standstill, -3 Daze (on the draw)/-3 Spell Snare (on the play) and -1 Fact or Fiction (no 4-bombs for CB to stop and too slow to impact) and bring in +3 Firespout, +2 Red Elemental Blast and +2 Pyroblast. That swings the match to me pretty easily.

[J.V.]

@J.V. - Thanks for the clarification.

Do you find Merfolk to be a bad matchup at this point? Game one I don't like it at all but after the Firespouts come in it really improves a lot. Really the only thing that scares me after they're in is Aether Vial, which is why I was asking.

I tune out -3 Standstill, -3 Daze (on the draw)/-3 Spell Snare (on the play) and -1 Fact or Fiction (no 4-bombs for CB to stop and too slow to impact) and bring in +3 Firespout, +2 Red Elemental Blast and +2 Pyroblast. That swings the match to me pretty easily.

I'd say merfolk is about 40/60 preboard and 60/40 postboard. My last 7 rounds against Merfolk have been 2-1 wins all losing game 1.

[pippo84]

The merfolk MU is quite tough preboard. You can go lucky with a fast Dreadnought and win, but it's probably 60-40 in their favour.
Postboard it's much easier, firespout, reb and lightning bolt together wreck them and it's in our favour.

Every one plays 21 lands in this deck. I started with 20, but now I'm also playing 21. Do you think it makes a big difference or why not 20 and 1 more slot? I personally haven't found much difference, but I'll stick with 21..

[FoolofaTook]

The merfolk MU is quite tough preboard. You can go lucky with a fast Dreadnought and win, but it's probably 60-40 in their favour.
Postboard it's much easier, firespout, reb and lightning bolt together wreck them and it's in our favour.

Every one plays 21 lands in this deck. I started with 20, but now I'm also playing 21. Do you think it makes a big difference or why not 20 and 1 more slot? I personally haven't found much difference, but I'll stick with 21..

Merfolk is tougher than 40/60 game one. I've won a game one here and there off of a fast nought but I expect to lose game one. After sideboarding it's a good matchup though and I think I win it maybe 60% overall even with the lousy game ones. I play Ur though, so no goyf. That makes a difference.

21 lands is necessary for consistency. Going to 20 either means 13 blue sources or only 3 Mishra's and both of those are iffy for me. I'm actually running 22 land right now, but I consider the Academy Ruins to be a spell not a land.