lol you don't need to worry about enchantress, even if it does become a DTB. Enchantress doesn't do anything relevant until turn 3... pretty sure you won by now.
Aww, c'mon cook's cool , like he can make good food, you can't disregard that!Originally Posted by Piceli89
Also I'm currently thinking about building this again to post in this thread and show how cool I am! My next deck 'll get pimped, so it's hard decision - this or the titty-di elfes . Uhm uhm.
Team Legal Actions.
"Make Disenchant"="Destroy target Enchantment or Artifact" in general, not "1W-Instant-Destroy target Enchantment or Artifact". I was referring to the fact that now that Krosan Grip left, a Wishable solution that could work for that purpose shouldn't be that bad. I'm thinking to the M10 3cc white "Disenchant" that makes you gain 4 life. Can also be good against counterbalance, if needed. Please don't answer me "Really? Burning WIsh wouldn't pass through Counterbalance to grab that". urning wish is WAY more likely to pass through CB than how Pyroblast is. Plus, that card can be also good against random problematics. I just don't see the logics behind boarding in 1 Echoing Truth, when you have Deathmarks for hate bears, Sprees for artifacts, but actually lack a Wishable answer for enchantments. And Echoing truth can be only tutored via Mysticals, which, as you say by yourself, suck ass in here.
..As for Cock, pardon. A Lapsus, i guess.
A Freudian one.
This could be applied to Simian Spirit Guide too, in a certain sense. But, as SSG is always useful when starting the combo even if doesn't involve AdN , he wanted to mean that CWish can be as much as versatile in grabbing other things than bombs.Running a 3cc card in order to play a 5cc card so you can take multiple 3cc damage.
The problem, lorddotm, is that this deck is already stuck with tutors, and CWish doesn't fit in here just because it's too expensive for the deck, apart from AdNauseam. TES really can't have 3 mana to cast it when it'd be at its greatest function, i.e. opponent's eot. It would probably require a ritual or a mana source in casting it.
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I didn't board in Krosan grip unless counterbalance was in the picture. Echoing Truth does a sufficient enough job against enchantments. It also comes in versus Teeg/Cannonist which I run into quite a bit over here. I'll take the versatility. Which is why I run pyroblast, it comes in against Merfolk and Landstill. Not just counterbalance or decks with Enchantments, which are dead in the Northeast U.S.
Last edited by Bryant Cook; 10-20-2009 at 09:49 PM.
Diminishing Returns often allows you to win games that otherwise are simply unwinnable. I can't tell you the number of times I've made 12-14 goblins and had them quickly removed the next turn. Making goblins is rarely the right move.
It's true that when given to opportunity to win "now", rather than "in the next two attack steps", I would choose the latter. Especially, if I run the risk of my opponent top decking or cantripping into <insert random sweeper> during the following turns.
Personally, I rarely end up going Diminishing Return unless I have no other option (or if my opponent lets mestack my deck, while they're looking the other waypile shuffle). At the moment T.E.S has no other viable/legal options in that slot. It would be awesome to have some sort of calculated approach, like an Ill-Gotten Gains loop FTW.
Edit: I don't know know what I was thinking when I posted this. The color requirements are too intense for TES to support. We need a total of 7 mana + W (for protected IGG piles) for it to even work (1R + BBB + 1U/UU). On top of that, all of the mana has to either come from INS's or ritual effects, since LED's don't really help us out at all in that situation.
That being said Diminishing Returns fills our "All In" option in our SB for now.
"Maybe Doomsday?"
The card in itself is amazing, allowing for a large storm count with a minimal effort. Unfortunately, without Sensei's Divining Top and Meditate in the deck, it loses alot of it's effectiveness. I find that it requires about the same amount of effort as [LED, LED + Tutor/Wish etc.] to set up.
I am considering Doomsday because, there are plenty of piles which are playable with cantrips for immediate use and do not necessarily rely on Top. I mustn't forget to mention the few "Pass The Turn" piles which can create a lethal, 9 storm + Tendrils.
(Click here for Doomsday Piles)
Now the question is: Can doomsday be played in TES, even though it lacks the stability of SDT based combo like NLS and FT/DD Hybrids? Could it have potential?
Last edited by BackDr0p; 10-21-2009 at 11:10 PM.
This whole strikeout thing you're doing is annoying.
Doomsday is a terrible idea without top.
But u still can combo out with Ponder/Brainstorm. U really think Doomsday don't deserves a SB slot?
The only problem is: Where we can put 1 Meditate/Infernal Contract?
If we could run 30 card sideboards doomsday MIGHT get a spot.
For me it's a lot better than Returns.
You're doing it wrong, DDAY sucks in TES ... believe me, I tried it way before you.
Without sounding like a colossal ass, the reason that Doomsday isn't really a god fit for TES is that by the time you have enough mana and a cantrip to use doomsday, its incredibly likely you can use AdN or IGG to win. Likewise, all the Doomsday->Go piles that would be the sort of last ditch that diminishing returns is require a higher land count than TES offers.
The reason that Doomsday works without a good Doomsday-Go pile in NLS or FT is that those decks forced themselves to play 4x SDT. SDT, while it isn't the worst card ever, is still bad in TES with lands that not only don't shuffle your deck, but either disappear or do you damage for using them. A secondary issue is that Rite of Flame doesn't cast Doomsday, leaving you with 6 realistic ways of getting there (10 if you don't mind Wish cracking LED and passing the turn, although keep in mind that the cheapest pass the turn pile that doesn't require infinite random shit in your library (i.e. works in a storm deck) requires 3UR the next turn, 2U of which are meditate and won't be able to be paid by your non-existent hand or LEDs. this pile isn't even completely lethal unless you sb out 1x Burning Wish or your opp is at 18 or less life)). Now, Rite of Flame is good in TES and it's great in ANT in general because it can lessen the amount of IMS that you need to flip with AdN.
To fully abuse the power of Doomsday in a deck you'd want to have something like this:
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Burning Wish
1+ Infernal Tutor
1+ Doomsday
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Doomsday
SB: 1 Infernal Contract
SB: 1 Deathmark
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
The thing is, once you've gone this far, you might as well just continue building NLS. TES's manabase won't support the SDTs, and you have to litter your maindeck with 4 SDT and 1 Meditate extra just to support Wishable Doomsday if you want it to do anything with it outside of cornercase shit. Your sideboard requiring Doomsday and Infernal Contract to be added is also probably problematic given how tight most TES sideboards are. FWIW, Contract lets you play Doomsday piles with just Burning Wish and 1RBBB available (so Wish + LED) that nets you something like Petal, LED, Rit, IT, Tendrils.
You might also notice that in lists with Doomsday (i.e. NLS or the UBwg hybrid), Doomsday is a tier one win condition. This is due to forced design constraints (like 10+ cantrips) to make it almost as efficient as Ad Nauseam (although you can argue that Ad Nauseam is less efficient in either deck than in TES, which I'd agree with, although efficiency when you're drawing 15+ cards usually don't matter). While there exist Doomsday, go piles that we can use in desperate situations, it's extremely rare (less than 1 in 300 games) where you actually do that thanks to so many cantrips.
Strangely, there was a time when Burning Wish->Doomsday was viable in TES, but I realized the correct piles for that almost immediately before LED and Wish were nerfed to take out the most interesting uses of it. Wish->Doomsday, go was a perfectly fine play with 2 IMS and an LED pre-M10. This is still worse than Diminishing Returns, but it could create a lot of very interesting situations vs aggro that don't involve as much gambling (aggro isn't taking you from 10 to 0 in a single turn) on DReturns or ETW. Only requiring 1RBBB turn 1 and then 5 more (3UR, all of which was playable off LED mana) on your combo turn was very enticing. Mox imprint, land, rite, wish->dday, rit, doomsday, led, go could win the game pre-M10.
Personal Tutor is probably more effective in the sb if you are looking for a bomb next turn but don't want to just bite the bullet and wish for IT to begin with.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
So, no one in my meta plays black storm, at all. I decide to trade for all the individual pieces (I already have Dredge, so I had the leds) and sleeve up the deck. (I should stipulate that I'm short the two USeas-I've replaced them with an undiscovered paradise and a forbidden orchard).
So, I sleeve it up, shuffle, and draw my first seven cards.
Led, Led, Land, Land, Chant, Petal, Infernal Tutor
Oh God, I think I'm in love.
lol looks like Cook's luck has a bit of competition.
Yeah dude, me tooooo! Ilove this fucking deck, I built it for shits, after seeing bryant's deck in the pimp thread... had to jap that shit, didn't think it would be so fun.
Last weekend I played a tournament with the sideboard posted on the first page of this thread. I really missed more artifact and creature removal. For a next tournament I am going to try:
-2 Deathmark
-1 Echoing Truth
-1 Infernal Tutor (I rarely used it)
+1 Shattering Spree
+3 Chain of Vapor (combined creature and enchantment removal)
So a new sideboard would be:
SB:1 Diminishing Returns
SB:1 Ill-Gotten Gains
SB:1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:1 Empty the Warrens
SB:1 Grapeshot
SB:1 Duress
SB:3 Pyroblast
SB:3 Chain of Vapor
SB:3 Shattering Spree
What enchantments are you worried about? Counterbalance? Chain isn't going to help here unless you trick them. I don't see this happening. I think deathmark is just better for creatures.
Am I missing something here....how does T.E.S beat belcher? Duress? I'm not suggesting that it can't but I don't know how to play against it
Chant and Duress.
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