Thanks!
Chant, Duress and also, if they go empty the warrens, we have 2 more turns to win and given that they have almost no disruption that shouldn't be hard. Basically in my experience, you just try and win faster than they can and use chants as time walks.Originally Posted by detroitpro
You should have asked how this deck can win against Canadian Threshold, especially now that many lists are packing Spell Pierce in the sideboard. Seriously, a single Wasteland at the right time pretty much screws this off, and double chant is hard to achieve. You can go off via Wish+LED after having had your Chant Forced, but if you go for the Tendrils/EtW route that chain rolls over both to Stifle and Spell Snare, which they both play in 4x.
And, as i was saying, TT's mana denial strategy makes the inclusion of Spell Pierce post-sb a real hard counter for this deck, given the low number of lands , and the fact that they are all non-basics.
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They side out burn we side in this.
The MU has worsened, since Spell Pierce has become an inclusion in most Canadian Threshold side boards. The amount of counters we have to deal with in that MU has become exhaustive. In order to go off, 2+ pieces of protection are needed. Xantid Swarm can solve this problem for us. CT (Canadian Thresh) players can choose to keep burn in to deal w/ it (and dilute the amount of cards "useful" against us) or have no answer for it. So far, it has proven to be quite effective in testing. The problem is choosing what to cut from the board.
Swarm is good versus them.
If I saw tempo decks on a regular basis I'd play it. However, I don't. I see Merfolk and the occasional Counterbalance.
My sideboard is also too packed. I'd have to cut Deathmark in a Gaddeck Teeg filled metagame or Pyro.
A combination of Warrens and Swarms does really, really well vs Tempo-Thresh, Warrens turns the game into Stifle yes/no? GG! Firespout was the best thing to happen to TES in awhile, because it pushed the fundamental turn of their sweeper back 1 and they have to cantrip for lands instead of counters. The match up is winnable, we just have to adjust to their weak points and punish them.
I don't know if Swarm is the best option. Players around here keep some burn in because of Ad Nauseam. Hoping to make it weaker/kill you because of it.
Xantid Swarm is the only thing getting past their 1cc counters, I don't see anything else we can do regardless of removal unless we're loading up on Chant/Silence to duck Spellsnare and Stifle.
Tempo Thresh is not good but its also far from being as horrible as CB+Top. The fact is that only force is really a hard counter and due to being threat light they can have a hard time putting on a clock. The best way ive found is to save lands till you need them and play your chants only when you can have it daze proof. Its not good but its not horrible. Stifle isnt really an issue as if we AdN you are incredibly likely to have a duress and Spell snare sucks vs AdN. Basically, playing smart with your chants and lands should get you through.
An important part of this matchup for me has always been Duress. It can be used to take out their Forces and other scary cards.
Concerning Spell Pierce, I am much more afraid of Disrupt. Being able to dirsupt (no pun intended) and draw a card is huge, and makes this matchup more difficult.
I don't know why you guys are trying to fix what's already broken. Seriously, there's nothing that can really be done unless there's a metagame shift or a new set that comes out.
What do you mean? the deck is bad now?
Anybody have any ideas if this would be the right deck to run at a Grand Prix? It seems strong enough to beat the random masses, but the masses of CBTop I do expect rather frighten me. Can I just run the "stock" list, or are there any modifications I should look for?
Both legacy GPs are too far away to say what the meta will look like.
This.
No. There's nothing to fix.
I'm really considering putting back K. Grip in the board, due to the possible influx of CB+Top (Supreme Blue) decks at this saturdays Vestal tourney. The only problem is that I'm still not to sure wether it is worth the inclusion. Tutoring into a singleton answer (or hoping to draw into it) sucks.
Note: I'll prolly kick myself for not having it at one point. Thats life.
I've read over your reports (and primer) however I still do find certain MU's very problematic. CDN Thresh (with Spell Pierce) in particular. Sure, I could add Xantid Swarms to fight this, but they become much less effective against a broader field such as this one. Swarm does nothing to fight CB, but it does = GG against any blue deck not packing the CB+Top when it resolves.
Bryant what do you expect the meta to be like? Any words of wisdom?
I'm not going to discuss sideboarding strategies in an open forum for an event this weekend. A PM will be sent.
I decided to run Xantid Swarm over Pyroblast this weekend. I wasn't too impressed but I didn't hate it either. I'll do more testing on the subject, Swarm was amazing against Merfolk but sucked versus counterbalance.
The meta at this weekends Jupiter Games tourney was ill suited for Swarm in general. The prevalence of CounterTop and lack of Merfolk contributed to this. They did help me win against the Mermen and Landstill, but unfortunately did not show when facing Canadian Thresh (the matchup I so desperately wanted to improve, because of the inclusion of Spell Pierce in many lists) and Meathooks.
I ended up going 3-3 Drop. Winning against Eva Green (Diminishing Returns is awesome), Landstill and Merfolk. Losing to Ichorid (His T1 win on the play/back to back Cabal Therapy followed by Breathrough G2, after mulling to 4), Canadian Thresh and Meathooks.
My board ended up looking like this:
3 Swarm
1 Diminishing Returns (MVP, teh nutz)
1 Grapeshot
1 Tendrils
1 ETW
1 IGG
1 IT
2 Spree
2 Grip
2 Deathmark
If I would return to a similar meta, I would make the following changes:
+3 Pyroblast, -3 Xantid Swarm
Canadian Thresh, although present didn't come in the numbers I predicted. I guess people expecting lots of Zoo, resulted in the significant amount of combo players piloting anything from TES, DD/FT, ANT to CRET Belcher. The meta responded with Counterbalance, especially the Japanese inspired lists to shore up MU such as Zoo and Merfolk.
even though we're susposed to just win faster I still think pyroblast is amazing in shoring up the ichorid matchup and I wouldn't want to cut it for a 0/1 flyer....
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