All B/R update speculation.

[DownSyndromeKarl]

*jumps down throat* ugh...its all warm and moist


back to reality: Why are we debating why cards were banned? Shouldn't we debate what cards should be banned and why? Just about every card has its own reason why it got the axe, so saying that Land Tax got banned because it's like Thawing Glaciers(see Aggro's post) it's just not valid. Land Tax and Thawing Glaciers are not the same card. They're as similar as Mirri's Guile and Top. Why then aren't we debating that? Symantics of Wizards' articles aside: Let's ban everything not from Fallen Empires or Homelands. Finally my playset of Apacolypse Chimes will come in handy!

[(nameless one)]

So, does Iona pose a threat on the format? I have this sense that Iona has the same power level as Worldgorger Dragon.

[MattH]

So, does Iona pose a threat on the format? I have this sense that Iona has the same power level as Worldgorger Dragon.

Uh...no?

Good heavens, people might have to play more than one color of removal, or some different graveyard hate. However will we deal with this?!?

[majikal]

So, does Iona pose a threat on the format? I have this sense that Iona has the same power level as Worldgorger Dragon.

By herself? No. It's the speed with which she (or really any huge, hard-to-remove creature) enters the board that has the potential to become a problem.

[Forbiddian]

More than anything, Wizards wants the game to be fun. There's a steep cost to banning cards (and generally the policy should be against banning anything), but there's a real fear that cards like Land Tax would contribute nothing to making the game more fun.

I don't really think it should be banned, but now that it is banned, I don't see how it being unbanned would in any way contribute to the game being more fun, so the status quo should prevail.

[Some Guy]

speculation , I fucking love speculation. its where everyone argues for 40 pages only to have both sides ultimately both be wrong.

[Aggro_zombies]

Actually, the quote to which I was referring has nothing to do with Top. It was in the article where AF addressed why Land Tax didn't come off the list a few cycles ago. Again, as I can't go through the archives to find the article right now, you'll either need to take my word for it - which is completely out of character for you - or go look it up yourself.

Edit - before someone finds the quote and I get a million people jumping down my throat, it may mention Top. However, it isn't the article posted above.

Oh, oops.

"I know there was a surge from within the Legacy community to unban Land Tax, but once again we didn't do it. Not only is the card incredibly powerful, but the games involving it are agonizing and boring. Any environment where the correct play involves not putting out your first land should be avoided, and with two Moxes available for anyone's use as four-ofs, I'd expect those decks to pop up. If the card's power level alone made it only a borderline case for banning, the oppressive nature of how it affects games pushes it over the edge."

Better?

[Nightmare]

That's the one.

[ddt15]

I like it how fish, one of the best decks in the format could only be improved by... adding Goyfs to it. Apparantly its so good that making the mana base more fragile in a wasteland infested format by adding tropicals to support it was still worth it.

Incidentally i wouldn't mind if they unbanned Recruiter.

[MattH]

Ban everything until Survival is good again, then never ban Survival.

^heavenly format IMO

[Aggro_zombies]

Ban everything until Survival is good again, then never ban Survival.

^heavenly format IMO

Wait, so you think type II but with Survival in it is the best format ever?

At least Jund wouldn't run it. Cascading into a second Survival with BBE would be hilariously bad.

[jimirynk]

Ban mystical tutor make combo/re-animator less broken.
I'm fine with both decks in the format but I feel like they got first and second for a reason.

[dahcmai]

I was the one talking about how if they wanted to unban Land Tax, they really should consider banning Top at the same time. It just seems like it would be a perfect match for each other and it would be excruciating to play against. One or the other aren't so bad, but both in the same deck would be annoying as hell. Blah, I would lose games from falling asleep.

I seriously doubt we'll see any changes yet again to be honest. It's pretty balanced right now despite all the doom sayers about Reanimator. Hopefully they will give up on Land Tax.


Lastly, if you really want to kill combo, just nail Dark Ritual. It's the core of all of them. Lion's Eye Diamond is a close second if not first. The two make up the essential part of every combo deck from Tendrils to Belcher. Combo would be dead in it's tracks, but why would you want to? Combo is the only thing keeping Aggro in check. As long as there's that possibility of someone casting Tendrils and ignoring all those Kird Apes and Wild Nacatyls, they will continue to play things that are subpar vs everything else. Gaddock Teeg isn't in those decks because he's an awesome beater along side Goyf. Aggro would go nuts if it wasn't around. Scissors beats Paper.



I think they should ban Timber Wolf so everyone wonders what was so great about it for 2 months or so. Then unban it next BR update so the price shoots through the roof for no apparent reason. It'd be epic.

[chris_acheson]

Combo would be dead in it's tracks, but why would you want to? Combo is the only thing keeping Aggro in check. As long as there's that possibility of someone casting Tendrils and ignoring all those Kird Apes and Wild Nacatyls, they will continue to play things that are subpar vs everything else. Gaddock Teeg isn't in those decks because he's an awesome beater along side Goyf. Aggro would go nuts if it wasn't around. Scissors beats Paper.

Midrange decks would fill in the gap left by combo decks, as midrange also beats aggro, but loses to combo. There are plenty of people who would prefer such a format, myself included. The combo players, however, would not be so happy.

[jimirynk]

That is why mystical the best card to banned in combo.
It nails combo and re-animator.
It mostly gives the less ways to play around hate making the mid-range/aggro route more viable.

[Mayk0l]

I've always been for banning Dark Ritual. Probably won't happen though.

About Land Tax not being fun. I think it's a lot of fun to draw three lands then Scroll Rack them away. In a format with Krosan Grip it's not even that powerful. But A. Recalling yourself every turn might just be what puts Control back in the format (because both Combo and Aggro beat the snot out of it right now).

[Dazed]

Hi, does anyone here knows when we will know of any official announcement about the banned list? How often WotC announce changes? Thanks.

[whienot]

I'm pretty sure the announcement will come on March 20.

[mossivo1986]

Re-Ban entomb.
Ban vial.

Just my assholish opinion. :)

[(nameless one)]

Re-Ban entomb.
Ban vial.

Just my assholish opinion. :)

Thats too mean...

I say lets go for Land Tax again... It is always voted as most likely to get unbanned (but it never leaves the list).