Don't forget, PM boxes can only hold a finite number of messages. You might want to spread out the messages you can send to stuckpixel over a few days.Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition
Although I'm still pretty sceptical on how you collect these results (I think people with few bad results and a lot of positive ones will be much more likely to post them then people who have a lot of poor finishes and few good ones), I'll post the result of a friend of mine. It was the first time he played the deck at a tournament and he went 1-2-2. The tournament was the Outpost Masters in Brussels - 32 players.
His win was against a UB deck with StifleNaught and Dark Depths combo. He drew against ANT and NoPro CounterTop. And he lost against ANT and the driving directions (we got there half an hour late and were allowed to start round 2 with 0 points...).
He liked the deck a lot and will probably play it some more in the future but what he lacked sometimes was a decent clock. I watched his game 3 in the matches he drew and I think he would have won both if he could just get a faster clock out than Mom or Wayfarer.
We tested about 20 postboard games with me playing TES and here it also became apparent that I sometimes just got so much time to answer his hate because he couldn't get a decent clock on the board. I'm not sure if anybody else has this problem. I must say that he did not play Sphinx (he's going to test him now).
From the 20 postboard games I played against him with TES, I believe I won 12 or even more. I find it very hard to believe your matchup against storm combo is 75%.
One more thing: I read somewhere in the last couple of posts that you consider Belcher to be a better deck than ANT. I'd probably better check the date of the post as it must have been the 1st of April. ANT is one of the (if not the) best decks of Legacy at the moment while Belcher is a glass cannon.
Ok, quick imput from my experience this sunday. 38 players, expected many zoo and bant, some merfolk and aggro loam and almost no combo.
I modified the list removing the Avengers for Thopter Foundries, and upping the Mystics to 3 to reliably fetch the Sword. Out the second plains for Karakas.
Rationale was some more blue cards to pitch, combo finish and being immune to burn.
Round 1 - Survival Rock (w Iona, w/o Deed) 2-0
Game one I stall with moms until I'm able to overrun him with Thopters.
Game two I take the game with Mystic+Jitte.
Karakas was good for bouncing Iona g1. A deed would have spelled doom.
Round 2 - Ichorid 2-0
Luky hands from my part with Jitte/Mystic, Wasteland, Swords, Relic/Enlightened...
Round 3 - Team America (w Deed and sideboard Plague and Extirpates) 1-2
Game one I go in waste-recursion ftw.
Game two and three Double deeds and plagues (clerics and thopters) give him time to land Tombstalkers and kill me.
Round 4 - Ledless ANT 1-2
Game one I mull to 5 searching for either blue spells (3 lands and 4 1/1 critters ain't good against combo) or lands to play my spells...
Game two I play first turn Enlightened into second turn Canonist and ride it to the victory.
Game three I can't find any hate/tutors and he's able to combo out trough Fow+Daze+Pierce thanks to my negligible clock.
Round 5 - Bant Survival (w Iona) 2-0
Game one I waste-lock him. He manages to get out three basics but can't operate without duals.
Game two I take my time enjoying myself dropping both critter+Jitte and Thopter+Sword...
Round 6 - Dragon Stompy 2-0
Game one he drops 1st turn Blood Moon, to wich I respond with Vial. Chaliche@1 is answered with Jitte and Chalice@2 locks me out but blocks his own Jitte. I manage to land guys with Vial and morph and overwhelm him.
Game two a 1st turn Trini is FoWwed and I gain enought time to operate and drop something before he's able to lock me.
Result is 4-2 (10-4-0 in games).
The deck in general performed well, but I found the Phatom Seers a bit underwhelming and the clock a bit slow. Obviously both these might be caused by my switch since Thopter requires more lands to operate optimally and is a bit slower than Avenger. Next time I would be probably trying Meddlings in place of Seers. (Yes I know I'm bringing the deck in another direction.)
“My power is as vast as the plains, my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins.” —Memoirs
What the hell with all these Thopter/Sword shenigans which are suddenly put in every deck? Like it is new. Like it is ANY better than Painter/Stone (requires much less mana, doesn't lose to gravehate and kills instantly). Seriously, its like playing with Ravnica duals - leave it to 1.X.
To me, the Avengers make the deck what it is. I couldn't ever see removing any of them and would like it if I could have more. Like a lot of decks there isn't much wiggle room in 60 cards. Also since we run FoW its hard to replace a U card for anything but another U.
There are only a few slots open that I would consider messing with.
Maybes
2 - sphinx
1 - Fathom
1 - mom
Stuff I won't alter
4 - avengers
4 - FoW
4 - Wayfarers
4 - swords
2 - Jitte
Stuff I want to try out
Thalakos seer
Serendib efreet
dominating licid
I would like at least a name or something to help me identify this person, especially since you're new here and may or may not ever post again.
At your questions: Nobody else really has the clock or time management problem that your friend ran into. The Storm combo players I've played against have all indicated that the clock is very fast since many draw and utility spells suddenly double down for more damage. I'll try to get some online games against Emidln or Vacrix or some other top combo player up on my youtube, though.
If it makes your friend feel better: A lot of people play the deck very slowly their first tournament, since it does have a ton of options that you probably haven't run into before. For a while when I was keeping data, nearly everyone who indicated it was their first time playing the deck ran at least one round into time.
With some practice, your friend will get better and a lot faster and shouldn't have any of these problems.
Forbiddian, awesome work in compiling play statistics. Appreciate the effort.
I also exhibited the same "slow play" problem with my first outing, compounded by never having played against the Lands deck. I'll be playing this deck again in the next week or two, and will definitely post my result.
I'm surprised that the Goblins matchup is being reported as 50% overall. Could it have to do with the newer builds not playing Forge Tender?
@forbiddian
I agree with ZZZ and other users who that the data currently collected is not valid for calculating match percentages and overall win/loss rate.
If you want a valid data for this kind of analysis you need to do the following.
1: Sample a number of representative tourney events where you have data of who won against who and what deck every participant played.
2: Single out any UW Tempo players, and look at their wins / losses and their Matchups
3: Test to see if UW tempo have a significant better Matchup against the field from the data you have collected in your sample.
4: Test if the average DCI rating of players using UW tempo is higher than players playing with other archetypes.
I know this kind of data is very hard to come by. but if you want to do the analysis you have been doing correctly, this is the way to go.
Last edited by Hattivita; 04-13-2010 at 05:18 PM.
Phoenix - there's a thing called 'real life' that sometimes gets in the way of posting tourney results to the source. Sadly, Magic isn't my first priority (as my last tournament results would clearly indicate).
There's a big difference between being dishonest with tournament results, and just not having posted them. I didn't feel like going home and writing an in-depth post about how I played the worst tournament of my life the same night it happened.. and I had a busy weekend. Having a family, job, and other responsibilities keeps me pretty busy most days.
I'll write something up eventually, but yes I did go 0-4 on the day (should have called it quits after round 2). For the record - I scooped round three before playing any games to help a buddy T8. Rounds one and two were good matchups that I thought I had a shot at winning if not for rusty/sloppy play(Zoo and Dark Sligh), and round four was just embarrassing. (jank taxing WW with suppression field maindeck)
Only real solace I found on the night is that at least two of my 4 opponents made T8.
[EDIT] It's been a while so I don't remember a lot of details, but I do have the round scores.
R1 v Zoo 1-2
R2 v Dark Sligh 1-2
R3 v NO Bant 0-2 (scooped to buddy)
R4 v Taxing WW (suppression field, etc) 1-2
The Zoo and Dark Sligh games were really close if memory serves, and I know I made pretty significant misplays in both. I tend to underestimate how powerful landfall guys are, and could have swords'd much earlier than I did.
Last edited by stuckpixel; 05-20-2010 at 08:50 AM.
Played the same list "as always":
Fathom Seer Beatdown
//Lands
2 Plains
1 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
3 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
//Creatures
4 Serra Avenger
4 Mother of Runes
4 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Fathom Seer
//Spells
3 Daze
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
//Sideboard:
1 Jotun Grunt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
3 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Aura of Silence
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Ethersworn Canonist
After playing four tournaments and being totally pleased with the results, No Goyf will definitely be the deck I play at Bazaar of Moxen this year.
More about the creator (there's only one since Forbiddian and I are the same accounts lolololololol) can be found here:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/group.php?groupid=6
I just played against a random noob, Balboa, who seemed to be a Sourcer, that quit when i dropped a second wayfarer after the first one being stped AND Fowed in response to a spell pierce of mine. Not to be Captain ultra-obvious, but seriously, how good is that card? it's a CA and draw-filtering house alone. It's a nightmare for all tempo decks as well as controls ones. It bends Supreme blue's manabase and it often acts as a "hit me! hit me!" lure. Why didn't people learn hot to abuse it? I mean, it's out since circa 2003.
Have you guys, btw considered the fact that UW tempo, being a good deck, could grow in popularity so fast that it could be easily absorbed by the meta (i mean, people learning hot to properly fight against it, how to hate it, etc)? It seems to me that the recent results that have grown around it are leading people to not consider it a janky homebrew dec anymore, which is both good and bad.
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Avatar of kicks_422's creation and property
My goal is to see a player, somewhere in the world, drop a Dread of Night turn 1 with a straight face.
UW Tempo rewards you for playing well. Its still doing well since losing its rogue status.Have you guys, btw considered the fact that UW tempo, being a good deck, could grow in popularity so fast that it could be easily absorbed by the meta (i mean, people learning hot to properly fight against it, how to hate it, etc)? It seems to me that the recent results that have grown around it are leading people to not consider it a janky homebrew dec anymore, which is both good and bad.
People still don't know how good Wayfarer is until they get slapped in the face with it. Thats why they don't know how to abuse it. Its usually overlooked as a bad card by people who have really never played with or against it.Why didn't people learn hot to abuse it? I mean, it's out since circa 2003.
EDIT:
LOL.
I'm going to run that shit against you at the next tournament, since I know we will both be topping 8. :P
How about we start using a succinct convention of describing the version of the deck in reference to pi4meterftw's post 900 list w/ full SB? So for you, it'd be -2 Sphinx +1 Spell Pierce, +1 Aether Vial. I just want to see how different builds play out. There's probably too much variance for me to draw definite conclusions, but it's nice to be able to learn even a little bit from the experience of others.
Can you say circle jerk. I guess that's what you get for making a new deck that sees play. Haters gotta hate, that's probably easier then making a new deck anyway.
A founding member of Team Bluff the Lotus - Bringing the crazy from Bob's Baseball Dugout
This made my day... The most notable names on the Source are praising you, how does it feel?
I only hope I can one day be at the level of understanding they are.
Speaking of running hate, some people in my area have started to maindeck cards such as
* Sulfur Elemental
* Orzhov Pontiff
Not quite Dread of Night yet, but its getting close.
In USA, you adjust to beat metagame.
In Soviet Russia, metagame adjusts to beat YOU!
His name is Erwin Heylen, he's not on The Source.
One of his opponents (the CounterTop player he drew with) did say after the match that he probably should have scooped sooner in game 1 so that he still had a chance to take the other 2 games within time.
Although in the games I played against him, it was not a matter of slow play, it was simply that when he couldn't find Serra Avenger or Jotun Grunt, I had all the time in the world to find answers for his hate and pick the counters out of his hand and then combo off.
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