Brainstorm
Counterbalance
Force of Will
Lion's Eye Diamond
Sensei's Divining Top
Show and Tell
Survival of the Fittest
Tarmogoyf
Tendrils of Agony
Wasteland
I don't think any of them are actually ban worthy.
I voted for SDT simply because it helps dumb people stall out games to time. I guess that could make them smart depending on how you look at it I guess, but you know what I mean.
Whenever I see a kid in a wheelchair it makes me a little sad. Because I always think, "Gee, they could have used those same wheels to make a bike for a regular kid. What a waste."
Yeah, but still fair. Show and Tell is like Flash with Sumonning Sickness.Originally Posted by kikoo
Show and Tell gets my vote. It's the closest thing to Flash in the current metagame. Still 2 turns slower and not worth of a ban, but any combo component that gets along with force of will to win the game is the de facto number 1 in my book.
I voted Survival for a couple reasons. First off I know it shouldn't be banned, because it is easily hated with common board cards, and it is the flavor of the month this August. Unfortunately it is the flavor of the month this August and the people making decisions may have been overlooking a lot into the Minneapolis 5K to see the health of the format.However I think the worst thing it has going against it is it is a recurring tutor. And we all know how much the decision makers frown on efficient tutors.
DCI Lvl II Judge
Can we maybe add a "Nothing" option because, you know, perhaps nothing needs to be banned?
The question is not "what needs banning." The question, quite clearly, is "What is the most bannable card in Legacy" with the added disclaimer "NOT that Wizards is going to ban anything." Because that is the question, "nothing" is not a valid candidate. If the option were between Monk Realist and War Priest of Thune, the latter would be more bannable, even though neither deserves banning. I have edited the first post to clearly show the question and that "nothing" is really not an option.
I am surprised that SDT is the number one contender for most bannable card in Legacy. CounterTop has been underperforming recently, which might admittedly have something to do with combo's fall after Tutor's banning; this was a solid matchup in the past. This just serves as a testament to one criteria that players are probably using in their votes: annoyance factor. SDT is just an obnoxious card to play against. It takes a lot of time, enables stupid plays, and has a game-stopping synergy. It is also interesting that people find this control card less interactive than LED/Tendrils, a more proactive non-interactive Magic situation (combo).
-ktkenshinx-
Show and Tell gets my vote. As long as WotC keeps printing bigger and better fatties, this card is dangerous.
edit: Not that I think anything needs to be done at the moment, but this one has the most potential to become broken.
Survival of the Fittest does not need to be banned. While it is a very strong engine, it is by no means dominant. The thing with UG Madness is that it's the flavor of the month. Certainly it made up 25% of the top 16 at Minneapolis, but I'm certain that the deck was extremely overrepresented due to the level of coverage it got during GP: Columbus and the fact that most of the cards in it are pretty cheap. I would even be willing to bet that it was the most-played deck. Give it a couple of months and it will die down.
Last edited by majikal; 08-30-2010 at 10:57 PM.
+1
Fair enough. I voted for Tarmogoyf because I want to play Grizzly Bears, and Striped Bears!
I don't really think it's that fair. Before Vengevine was printed you would be in a pretty bad spot if you were facing down a resolved Survival, but you would still have a fighting chance. If Survival resolves nowadays, all counterspells you might draw afterwards automatically become blanks and most decks basically just lose the game in 0-2 turns to the uncounterable flying haste attack. Graveyard hate is just a minor speed bump for the deck and is easy to play around. Extirpate works, but that's not a card you're terribly excited to play and it doesn't stop them from just tutoring for their best creatures. Sure, Krosan Grip takes care of the enchantment, but that's a 3cc answer to a 2cc card that does nothing when you're on the draw and your opponent goes turn 1 Hierarch + turn 2 Survival.
Now it's not just an insane card advantage engine/infinite Eladamri's Call, it's basically "1G: You win", which is just stupid.
I'd like to see how many UG Madness decks there were at the 5k, but 5 copies of the deck in top 16 seems like a lot in any case.
Show and Tell isn't broken in my opinion. There are just way too many answers (even maindeck) to Emrakul and he's really the only exciting thing to dump into play. The answers include all of the Diabolic Edict-ish spells, Knight of the Reliquary (Karakas), Humility, Oblivion Ring, Stingscourger, Sower of Temptation and so on... And let's not forget that Show and Tell allows you to put any of these cards into play for free. Also, the Survival decks have a powerful backup plan if their "combo piece" is dealt with, the Show and Tell decks do not.
The sky isn't falling (yet!), but it seems like Survival pilots are having a disturbingly easy time x-0'ing whatever tournament they play in (atleast that's is my general impression from reading the various SotF threads), but then again, if more people played 4c Allies there wouldn't be a problem!
/rant
If I could vote by not voting (N/A), I would do that.
As I see it, all of those cards help make Legacy what it is -- which I find to be a very fun and balanced format.
Zapping any of those cards would harm an otherwise perfectly fine format.
Last edited by Bardo; 08-31-2010 at 12:08 AM.
I love how every time a deck does marginally well at a single tournament, everyone flips the fuck out and starts waving the banhammer around.
Exactly. I honestly don't give a damn what today's latest and greatest card is. The important thing is to ensure that a card does not become too entrenched in legacy to the point of becoming unplayable.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =,
, and
.
This is for most bannable card after all. I'm still expecting a big
Standard Extended Legacy Vintage
No Changes
DCI Lvl II Judge
I think none of these cards are bannable. Counterbalance and Top are just boring, so if I had to say something it is Top.
Rather ban Vengevine than Survival which is core of many reliable not too powerful decks.
I personally would ban too hard to get and expensive Portal cards like Loyal Retainers.
I wouldn't ban anything...but if I had too it would be brainstorm. It's the strongest card in legacy and an enabler for top, led, and snt which are the top 3 on the poll...it's also been played in tier 1 decks alongside all of the other cards on the poll.
Well I think it's really just because the deck i so "new" and "innovative" and not because it's power.also, it's a blast to play.
But in a few weeks, players will get used to VV- Survival and start to caope with it. Less T16's then, i guess.
This man is a truthspeaker! You deserve a beer - if you see me in Ghent, you may present yourself to me as The Speaker of Truths and I will buy you a beer of choice
Just for this list, they could print a 1CC Instant that searched for three cards, put them into your hand, left off the "shuffle your library afterwards" clause so you could set the deck any way you wanted to, had the relentless rats ability of having more than four copies in a deck, and also made the opposing player give you his car/hot girlfriend, and I'd -still- pick Lion's Eye Diamond here. I've been in favor of banning this and only this for the last several years.
That said, Sensei's Divining Top is also very close in my book and would also make a solid ban.
Everything else on that list should absolutely stay under all circumstances.
Clearly this. Nothing on the list is ban worthy. But SDT is by far the most irritating and un-fun to play against. The time factor of SDT is also another pretty big issue.
It's also present in quite a few combo decks. Just saying.
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