Has anyone thought about adding Ancient Tomb ?
It could solve the tempo problem that will arise once we start dropping Vial and the affinity creatures.
This is a list i am currently thinking about. It have done no testing with it so far but i intend to.
//19 Manasources
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
//24 Creatures
4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Steel Overseer
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
//17 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Shrapnel Blast
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
There are no one mana creatures in this deck so Tomb helps out to get those two and three mana guys on the battlefield early. It still got a problem with all the colored spells since none of them will use double colorless mana.
Tezzeret is there just a a late game option. Not sure how good he can be. But i want to try him.
The deck might be way too slow. But it does not sound that bad. Only testing will tell.
A small, difficult to play (White is generally not one the deck's main colors) creature that is not an artifact is probably not going to be worth playing. I wouldn't even run it if it didn't have the drawback.Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
The color is the biggest draw back...it pays for itself if you miss a land drop (good), same deal with a mox (good), it's a 2/2 flyer for w with evasion (awesome), with vial it makes up for a missed land drop and can save a land from wasteland or a creature from removal (ok)...so I would say it's definately something to test. It doesn't play nice with frogmite, thoughtcast, master, and plating...but wouldn't it just take mite's spot? That would nullify it's disynergy with frogmite, if you can play mite you only need one more mana for cast (I don't play this deck...this could be relevant), the lack of +1 for plating is definately made up by it's evasion (vs. mite), the evasion again should make up mostly for frogmite's 3/3ness and pump with master. If you're running white you probably aren't running black for disciple.
Hey, this is my first post here, i've been lurking around here for a long time, though.
(Btw, sorry for my English, i know its Fucking bad =p, so... have a little patience, please.)
First question:
@4eak and @GreenOne
since you guys seems to know the most about Affinity, i would like to know:
-What do you guys think about running Etched Champion in the maindeck, is it worth it?
-and Mox Opal? (at least as a 2 or 3-of)
-memnite?
Second:
im going to play in a local tourney here, which will be held in october 10th (about 27-30 ppl), and the meta is dominated by agro decks (goblins, merfolk, zoo, etc). there are few control decks, and combo decks are almost non-existant there (maybe 1 or 2 tier2 combo), so... how should i SB against them?
my current list is as follows:
//18 Manasources
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Tree of Tales
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 City of Brass
//27 Creatures
4 Arcbound Worker
4 Ornithopter
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Disciple of the vault
//15 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
4 Aether Vial
3 Springleaf Drums
Current SB:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Krosan Grip
3 Perish
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of prog
this looks more like a General SB, but how should i be sideboarding against Agro decks? How should I tune my list?
btw, im thinking about going with a build like that when SoM comes out:
//18 Manasources
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
3 Tree of Tales
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Mox Opal
//28 Creatures
4 Arcbound Worker (Or Memnite, but Modular + E.Champion really seems to Shine =p)
4 Ornithopter
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
4 Disciple of the vault
//14 Spells
4 Thoughtcast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Aether Vial
3 Springleaf Drums
do you think its worth it? or should i stick with my current one?
Oh, btw, if you guys could come up with a better list, i would gladly use it =p
P.S.: that primer is really a 5 stars one, (even though its a bit old) I have to thank you guys for that Awesome work. (yea, i know its from last year, but that doesn't change the fact this primer is awesome =p)
Thank you for your patience.
i'm just gonna saying, but if you're planning on running a more "mainstream" curve, wouldn't vial be more useful then? i understand not using it in affinity when you have 4 and 7 cmc creatures, but now that you're planning on going with 0-2-3 drops, vial seems a lot more useful, specially when getting past permission.
haven't played affinity in a while, so i might be wrong
@ Modus Pwnens
Love the name; I make 2 points in here that aren't directed at you personally (rather the thread as a whole).
It is fairly expensive for my taste. If it cost 2 mana, I think it would be more playable. It is obviously a strong card against opposing creatures and removal, and Vial@3 helps. It might belong in an Affinity deck hoping to compete in a metagame like yours, so test it out against your gauntlet.-What do you guys think about running Etched Champion in the maindeck, is it worth it?
It is usually the case that when a cool looking artifact comes out in a new set that tons of people come out to say "that would be awesome in affinity" and "that would be awesome in Stax" -- Historically, they have a terrible, terrible track record. Every set we see a ton of people try to "innovate" stax and affinity, and they fail. For the love of all that is holy, let us be slower to suggest cards automagically belong in Stax or Affinity.Mox Opal
I've already said what I thought about Mox Opal. I think it is a 2-of at best, but I wouldn't be replacing lands with it. Springleaf Drum is what I'd be replacing. Springleaf Drum is conditional in a similar way (although it actually can be used in multiples).
@ Aether Vial Debate: You all have still not learned your lesson about Aether Vial. Good gracious people, play good cards. How many times must I defend this card in Legacy decks? Yes, I realize how few cards the deck actually can Vial into play; those are also the most important creatures in the deck. Also, Vial isn't dead with respect to the cards it won't Vial into play (as another deck might experience), as Frogmite and Myr Enforcer still benefit from the artifact-factor.
When Aether Vial is not worth playing in your eyes, you should be playing either combo or a deck that beats combo.
It obviously wouldn't replace Ornithopter (Flying is far too relevant), and Worker seems the natural choice. Even after M10 nerfs, I think Modular is worth the 1-mana cost (often costs nothing while ramping up Vial).-memnite?
First: I'd suggest a different deck.Second:
im going to play in a local tourney here,
Second: Your sideboard has nothing worth bringing in against the majority of aggro decks.
peace,
4eak
It's an (almost) unblockable 2/2 for 3 with (almost) troll shroud. It won't see play in this deck, no matter how cool it might look.
Scepticism is the foundation of a scientific mindset and all, but insinuating this might not see play in affinity is ridiculus. Except for the rather minor Legendary drawback (ravager, disciple, not a 4-of), this is a strictly better Springleaf Drum that might very well accelerate mana turn 1.
Which explains Vials prevalence in Survival and Zoo? Good decks play good cards when they have good reasons to play them (the reasons in tribal being that they run rather extensive card advantage engines synergizing with it and land based mana denial. And gameplans spanning longer than turn 4)). Vial used to be the best artifact acceleration and color fixer available and Ravager/Disciple the most unanswerable resolved threats in the game. Well, time's they are a changing, especially as the deck as is cannot compete in its current form. Implementing the Mox, Memnite and Blast might not be enough to make it competitive again, but it will add speed and reach whilst maintaining the artifact count courtesy of the all-artifact manabase.@ Aether Vial Debate: You all have still not learned your lesson about Aether Vial. Good gracious people, play good cards. How many times must I defend this card in Legacy decks? Yes, I realize how few cards the deck actually can Vial into play; those are also the most important creatures in the deck. Also, Vial isn't dead with respect to the cards it won't Vial into play (as another deck might experience), as Frogmite and Myr Enforcer still benefit from the artifact-factor.
When Aether Vial is not worth playing in your eyes, you should be playing either combo or a deck that beats combo.
Etched Champion is absolutely playable. It wears cranial plating better than any creature. MoE and Worker boost it up quite a bit as well.
@Maveric
On Champion: Unless you find people playing Affinity or Eldrazi fatties (or Dreadnought, if they're still around), this guy can pass through hordes of bad guys while avoiding removals. Also acts as an emergency blocker against faster aggro decks like Zoo (they don't like having their Goyfs/Knights/whatever held on by something that can't be touched by Qasali Pridemage nor StP nor any other of their removals).
I really like this card. It allows a more calm and stable approach to the deck. I know, I know, Affinity should be all about speed and beating the crap out of things. But every single time I did so when playing the old Extended version I was pwnd. Who knows, maybe Affinity isn't meant to be an All-In aggro deck. It has been so for years, and never been more than a Tier 2 in Legacy.
On Vial: It isn't a simple accelerator. It avoids CB, Chalice and counterspells. A turn 1 Vial can make all the difference in the world against a control or Stax deck. Your best pieces can at least enter the battlefield undisturbed.
Also, Zoo and Survival are completely different decks. Zoo plays tons of CHEAP fuckers (and still scoops to turn1 Chalice@1 most of the times); Survival goes for recursion (and suffers from GY hate). Affinity is a different deck, less explosive than Zoo and without Survival's recursion ability. Therefore, it needs to land the right creature ASAP AND it must enter the battlefield safely. Vial does both things for 1.
Also, this is perhaps the only decent deck you can build for approx. 100€. Which is fucking good for starters/players with no money to spend on duals and FoWs. Long live TEH AFFINITEE.
Affinity wins on two pillars:
- Resolved creature carrying a CPlating over the head.
- Lack of massive artifact hate (e.g. Pernicious Deeds, Disk)
I feel that the balls-in-the-wall strategy doesn't work in today's meta. I am interested in picking up the deck again, and focus on the two pillars above rather than the balls-to-the-wall approach. As long as you resolve a creature with plating (Etched champion/ornithopter etc) you can race against most creatures in the format.
Affinity wihout plating seems subpar. I never was a fan of Ravager even though it gave explosive wins. Post M10, ravager builds would have to go all in and risk losing everything to an StP etc. I personally would go with Vials, but I think the best approach in my mind as I'm working out a list is to play a maindeck with Chalice and no Vials (Chalice kills most decks), and play a sideboard of Vials against control or mid-ranged decks to shore up those matchups. I personally think that Chalice >> Vial. Vial would help race against other aggro decks and be great against control/Standstill, however it doesn't solve the main weakness of the deck aka dying to a single removal spell or mass removal. Chalice will slow down a lot of decks (Zoo, and stop stp/brainstorms/combo) allowing you to build up and swing.
I would play with Champion, but in the process add some Ancient Tombs and focus on 1-2 colors instead of 3 colors in old Affinity lists. Null Rod is sad face though if the deck becomes more prominent :(
So, you're nixing Ravager, Worker, Disciple of the Vault, Vial, Springleaf Drum? Do you have a mock up deck list? Chalice at 1 is always fun but is a slower affinity just a worse mid-range aggro?
Going your route though we could chalice, then splash white for utility. That new angel with metalcraft that shrouds all artifacts we control? Canonist for combo? No Ravager, so maybe Thoptor Foundry? Saccing artifacts in response to removal to make fliers is pretty good with the right equipment. Also MoE makes for some good pumps. Along with the blue lord from SoM that pumps blue creatures. The tap ability isn't too* relevant, but maybe it can power out something bomby?
Sounds neat, but its viability inconlusive even as a thought experiment without testing.
Cranial Plating is the most powerful card in the deck, the most common win condition, and the only card that should be a guaranteed 4-of in any Affinity list ever, just in case anyone was skeptical.
I've been experimenting a lot with Thopter Foundry and I came to the conclusion that if you run Foundry, Steel Overseer is a goddamned must-play.
Also, I figure this opens you up to play 4 Mox Opal, since you can sacrifice them to fuel the Foundry.
Sword of the Meek is unneeded, you are usually confident with spitting out 4 Thopters. With a Master or an Overseer, these pesky beasts take over the game very, very quickly.
Hell, I even started to run Goyf in that build because I figured that losing some parts that made Affinity go all-in pushed it in the wrong direction (Affinity just isn't capable to go all-in against anything that isn't a goldfish!). Maybe removing Disciple/Ravager is the next logical step, playing Etched Champion seems very tempting.
@crz87: If you'd play Chalice, would you rather play Memnite or Worker?
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
OH.EMM.GEE
Stick a Memnite on this sucker and all the artifacts are free except for Etched Champion, AND we get MoE for U...although this opens us up to a 2 for 1.
Could be interesting. Though Affinity could handle only two good CMC3 drop max, in order not to lose speed by raising its mana curve drastically. Since one of those is MoE, people will either choose this Anvil OR the Champion. I think it'll depend on the deck's strategy.
Agreed. Now that I think about it more, this card would push us back in the "all-in" direction. Free Platings still make me smile though.
Well, it also works great in Erayo Affinity lists.
This Anvil is kinda intriguing for All-In strategies. It lands turn 2 (Drum+Opal, whooo!) and lets you play Ravagers, Platings and Workers for free, reduces Enforcer's cost and gives you MoE for U, which is great. Having artifacts in hand is something no problem for this deck, and this also gets rid of extra copies of Mox Opal... you just remove them for Anvil and you turned a dead card into savage advantage without discarding more useful pieces. I like it.
If you have the 3 mana to pay for this, you should already be able to cast every other spell in your deck. The goal of Affinity is to have almost your entire hand on the board by turns 3-4. Definitely not worth using.OH.EMM.GEE
Stick a Memnite on this sucker and all the artifacts are free except for Etched Champion, AND we get MoE for U...although this opens us up to a 2 for 1.
It seems like AEther Vial is a common card that people want to remove. Why? It's one of the few cards that adds consistency to the deck. I could see a super fast Sligh list without this card, but most "standard" versions of the deck should still run 3-4 Vials.
People are also discussing taking out Frogmite... really? Is Memnite really better than Frogmite? Memnite is completely useless unless you have a T1 Springleaf Drum or it has a Plating attached to it. Frogmite can at least trade with SOME creatures, and its P/T lets it trade with Nacatl once MoE hits play.
Mox Opal is amazing for this deck, yes. I wouldn't run more than 2, running 3 is just asking to get screwed.
Etched Champion I'm still on the fence about. Evasive beaters are really what wins Affinity games (I ran 4 Ornithopter 4 Roterothopter for a while...), but he is pretty expensive... maybe as a two of?
This is what I have in mind:
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Ancient Den/Tree of Tales/Great Furnace
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Glimmervoid
3 Aether Vial
2 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum
4 Ornithopter
3 Arcbound Worker
1 Roterothopter
4 Frogmite
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Master of Etherium
2 Etched Champion
2 Myr Enforcer
4 Cranial Plating
4 Thoughtcast
I really have no idea where Memnite fits in unless there are more Springleaf Drums. Yes the deck gets quicker if you switch to that strategy, but it also gets less consistent, because you're banking on a really explosive turn 1/turn 2. Of course, I could be completely wrong; maybe this is the direction the deck should take.
On another note, I really kinda like the idea of an artifact-sligh version of the Affinity deck. Nidd's list is definitely a good starting point, but I think it at least needs Thoughtcast somewhere in there.
Anvil is completely unplayable in Affinity. Don't forget that it is -2 cards, that means that you won't have aynthing left in your hand to play, especially after playign acceleration plus free spell on turn 1. Not saying it can't be broken somehow, but not in this deck.
The Anvil turns Grim Monolith into a Mishra's Workshop :P Very very cool card, don't know how effective it would be in a deck like this that'll pretty much play out its hand anyways turn2! Just too much card disadvantage... would take out deck-space in a deck that pretty much wants each card to count; It's a very odd card, sorta like an Artifact that "gives" your other artifacts Affinity. The only way this card would be broken would be in some sorta "Thopter Foundry-Combo" that goes infinite and pretty much wins, but in a creature tempo deck it's sorta opposite of what the deck needs I think.
May your suffering equal your weakness--Ihsan's Shade
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