What is your list?Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Looking forward to those results from testing! Please do post them here, it will be very helpfull for some of us trying to make that hard decision what to spend money on
Im from Czech Republic, so be patient with my english!
I was ambling about on DeckCheck.net and I came across this list:
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon
1 Terastodon
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Force of Will
3 Ponder
4 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Careful Study
4 Entomb
2 Intuition
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Show and Tell
2 Reverent Silence
2 Perish
3 Dispel
In the brief testing I've done with it, it seems to be not half bad. I like Intuition. It can be a "I need this specific card right now" tutor, or can act as Entomb numbers 5 and 6, including the "responding to Crypt in response to Exhume" trick. The only problem I've encountered with Intuition is that it's three mana in a deck with 17 land. I do a lot of testing against Merfolk because of how popular it is around here, and in general, and it can be hard to get three land on the table in a timely fashion against Wastelanding. I think it'd be better with 4 Delta and dropping the other two fetches to 3 each, since then I could more reliably get my basics, but that would have an impact on my ability to fetch up the Arbor in games two or three.
Thoughts?
No sphinx?
I'm personally a huge fan of LDV. Intuition is slow (you can find whatever you need turn 2 with LDV, go off turn 3 with it) whereas you intuition turn 3, go off turn 4. Plus, games 2/3 its much weaker. It makes it obvious what your game plan is, and gives you very little outs left if they stop what you intuitioned for.
Sphinx (of the Steel Wind, I'm assuming you mean) is in there up at the top. I would never consider running without her.
Your points about LDV's strengths and Intuition's weaknesses are valid, and I'll certainly keep them in mind as I test.
Is anyone still bothering to muck about with Personal Tutor? There was another list in that same, small event that finished higher, which ran Personal Tutor, Strategic Planning, and Turbulent Dreams. I've never been a fan of either of the latter two.
Personal Tutor would be good to pull out a Reanimate, if you don't draw a LDV or to find a Maelstorm Pulse, Show and Tell (if creature in hand), or Careful Study (to discard said creature in hand) if you need to blow up something. However, Echoing Truth can be faster and only "findable" via a LDV. I miss my Mystical Tutor :/Sphinx (of the Steel Wind, I'm assuming you mean) is in there up at the top. I would never consider running without her.
Your points about LDV's strengths and Intuition's weaknesses are valid, and I'll certainly keep them in mind as I test.
Is anyone still bothering to muck about with Personal Tutor? There was another list in that same, small event that finished higher, which ran Personal Tutor, Strategic Planning, and Turbulent Dreams. I've never been a fan of either of the latter two.
Enchantress//Reanimator//Doomsday
Sorry, missed the sphinx there.
Personal tutor is okay, and I think you can get away with it if your not running lotus petals. I just don't like that it completely gives away what deck your playing and what your game plan is. If your opponent realizes they need to leave mana open to spell pierce you because you showed you were going to use reanimate next turn, thats a significant disadvantage. I also like LDV for the fact that it can also tutor up creatures for games 2/3 to show and tell into play, as well finding entombs and force of wills.
I agree completely, it's an extremely versatile search tool. Do you have a list you're currently working with? If so, would you be willing to share it, and/or the sideboard?
Sure thing
2 Iona
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Emperyial Archangel
1 Inkwell
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtsieze
4 Brainstorm
3 Careful Study
3 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Show and Tell
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Swamp
2 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
Sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Extirpate
3 Show and Tell
3 Perish
1 Dryad Arbor
Its currently 61 cards. The card that should probably get cut is Archangel, but really helps me win game 1 vs zoo. I'm slightly overboarding for vengevival, but the decks been super popular lately, and I'd like to have the upperhand in the matchup. In a meta with less vengevine, I'd probably play stifle or spell pierce in the extirpate slot. Perish really improves your zoo and new horizons matchups, and also puts creatures in their graveyard for you to reanimate.
how was your testing without terastodon and personal tutor?
your sideboard, yes, very focused towards grave and green, vengivines :P
Its been fine. Theres never a time I really want terastodon. I'd rather use maelstrom pulse as my removal and have my reanimation target be a game winner.
With lotus petals, I can T1 LDV, which makes it was better than personal tutor. Tutor was nice for finding pulse/show and tell and the occasional needed reanimation/discard spell, but I really disliked how it gave away my game plan to my opponent. Plus, this deck has been "dead" for awhile now, so it really catches your opponents off guard. Personal tutor ruins some of that surprise.
Jon, I rly like Your list, looks like very similiar to what I'm testing now. I'm playing with 2 less lands (Ye, greed bitch mode) but +1 Careful Study. I don't splash G ($$$...) so Pulse -> Echoing Truth. And depending on meta, I hestitate with changin Archangel for 2nd Inkwell. I would like to add 4th daze / 3rd thoughtseize, but I'm missing slots...
All in all, Petals are awesome, imo it's what my deck was missing until now.
Cheers, take care.
Agreed, petals are insane.
2nd inkwell is definitely a fine switch. I just fear zoo a little more in my meta. I'm not sure if my land count is correct, but I hate mulling to oblivion because of a lack of lands. Further testing will show.
Both of those circumstances are pain in the ass, but I would rather have screw over flood. Every further mana source than 3rd/4th is a DEAD card in Reanimator.
Le's say that Petal is 1/2 land, and study / brainstorm is 1/3 land. Then I'm playing with 15 lands + 4 petals + 4 brainstorms + 4studies. That gives me at least ~19 virtual lands, in a deck, which should prevent me from regular screws, and provide another mana sources. When I have 1 blue mana on opening hand, combined with study / brainstorm / petal, I would keep that hand 90% of time.
I know that my math is conventional and provisory, but that works ok for me. Of course, sometimes I lost becouse of screw, but cmon, almost every deck does - it's sometimes just matter of luck.
Inkwell vs Archangel is of course situational, but I would like to reanimate Leviathan in more cases. It totally wins games with Landstills etc. Archangel is brilliant vs ZOO and Burn, but I can bring Sphinx vs ZOO and Iona on red vs Burn. What is more, both of these matchups are favorable in my opinion.
Hope to see more constructive posts here, greetings.
Archangel is amazing against Landstills etc. Their mishras factory can no longer do damage! If you reanimate her and go to 1 life you still win. Inkwell is needed as a finisher vs merefolk (islandwalk) if they have a big coralhelm commander as well as vs control combo (1 turn faster than archangel). Play both.
Vs burn iona is best (pick red!).
My experience has shown that Blazing Archon is what Merfolk hates. Most lists still aren't running any way to cope with permanents, and they need to win by swinging, so he just leaves `em cold. If they stick a large enough Coralhelm Commander, then don't attack with the Archon until you can find your Leviathan, and use Inky to get there; once you've got the Archon on the table then the game is under your control so you're in no hurry.
Haha, thats exactly what he was saying.
I lost to zoo and to dredge this past weekend. The deck is already getting hated out by my local meta (dredge added the destroy a permanent angel to their build). I think this goes to show that this deck may only shine when a meta is prepared for it. Granted, most metas are not prepared for it, but the point still stands. But mystical tutor reanimator was much the same way (it had basically stopped top 8ing when mystical was banned).
Ah, OK. I had misread, then.
Zoo was always a tricky matchup for me. I was never quite comfortable with the Archangel, since they'd swing into her and then lob a couple of burn spells at me to finish her off.
(I'm assuming you meant "when a meta isn't prepared for it.") I agree. I think what might make it a good call at the moment is its speed, even with the loss of Mystical Tutor, and people being caught off guard by it. My biggest concern is that grave hate is coming back to deal with Vengevine Survival, and several of the tools people use to stop it -- Faerie Macabre, most notably -- can bother us as well.
Yeah, vengevine is a blessing and a curse. We have an AWESOME matchup vs U/G vengevine, but the hate against it is problematic. I think because of that, you always need to have a full set of show and tells post board (except against eldrazi type decks obviously).
For a time, I'd fiddled with the idea of making the post-board deck into a Worldly Tutor/Show and Tell machine. I think that plan would've been a lot stronger before Eldrazi showed up with their corresponding Show and Tell decks (which includes Sneak Attack), but it's still always intrigued me.
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