[DTB] Vial Goblins

[Caspid]

You don't need Premium to read that report.

jrw was referencing the article from the week before (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...in_Legacy.html - where I assume Goblins were talked about, people disagreed, then he went to this tourney to prove his stuff). I'm also curious about what he said, particularly about 4 MWM and 3 Piledriver.

[dar482]

jrw was referencing the article from the week before (http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...in_Legacy.html - where I assume Goblins were talked about, people disagreed, then he went to this tourney to prove his stuff). I'm also curious about what he said, particularly about 4 MWM and 3 Piledriver.

That's completely fine with me if you're planning to run into a lot of mirror matches and Zoo.

Again, the bigger question I had is how he possibly thinks he can beat UG Survival consistently.

[ScatmanX]

@Article: His first article sucked. The new one is where there's something usefull.
I think Goblins can beat Survival. But I do not agree in his side-ins/side-outs in many MU's...
For instance, I think knesis is very good against Survival.

@HerrFunker: Playing Mutavault is an option, if your manabase can support it. It is good vs. sweepers, good with incinerator and Piledriver, and particulary good against Merfolk. Dependig on the MU's you expect, Volrath's Stroghold can be better.
Usually, though, none are played, cause people prefere a more stable manabase, since goblins is a very mana hungry deck.
(Welcome to TheSource)

[HerrFunker]

@HerrFunker: Playing Mutavault is an option, if your manabase can support it. It is good vs. sweepers, good with incinerator and Piledriver, and particulary good against Merfolk. Dependig on the MU's you expect, Volrath's Stroghold can be better.
Usually, though, none are played, cause people prefere a more stable manabase, since goblins is a very mana hungry deck.
(Welcome to TheSource)

Thanks for the advise I will test Stronghold first since they are cheaper. Think 2 will suffice? Since you never need more than one at a time.

Also @ survival matchup it depends on what build they are using. For builds that use vengevine and madness creatures I usually bring in Perish and needles. For combo with fewer creatures I bring GY hate+ needles. Needle on Survival is really our best answer, and just save removal for fauna shaman. Then they are just another bad agro deck.

Also has anyone seen the turbo survival version with Lion's eye diamond? It is more explosive than dredge often swinging for 12 on turn 2. If that list becomes big then relic is too slow for us.

[lebarion]

Started reading the report.
Match 1, game 2: He is on the play, but side out Goblin Lackey. Does anyone do that?
It seems like a terrible choice to me...

I'm not exactly a Goblin specialist, but I have exactly the same thoughts. I wouldn't do that, and my logic is:
On the draw, merfolk can stop lackey only with is Cursecatcher or FoW. Even if they stop the first turn lackey woth one of these plays, it is beneficial for you, as you gained card-advantage and/or developed your mana base, what is more important for Goblins than for Merfolk.

Also, he sides out Mogg Warmarchal against Dredge. Do people that run him do that?

I don't agree with this, too. While I see that not paying MWM's echo could be too slow to stop Dredge, any tools you have against them are welcome.

[ScatmanX]

@HerrFunker: 1 Volrath if you really want to test it, since is Legendary land.
I don't think that turbo Survival deck will see play. It looks way more inconsistent the the UG one.

@Lebarion: Exactly my thoughts. Also, all our removal spells kill a 1st turn Cursecatcher with a Lackey in play, so I don't think it usually stops it.

[bloodbrother]

hi guys

i would just like to ask what's the general consensus regarding the SB in an unknown meta?

thanks in advanced

[JonBarber]

hi guys

i would just like to ask what's the general consensus regarding the SB in an unknown meta?

thanks in advanced

Aggro hate, grave hate, and combo hate. Personally I'm a fan of pyrokensis, leyline of the void, and chalice of the void. For the last couple slots, decide what you want to be more prepared against. Aggro? Play a couple sharpshooters or perishes. Combo? Toss in some mindbreak traps/thorn of amethysts/pyrostatic pillars in addition to the chalices. Control? Play blood moons. Graveyard based decks? Play some planar voids/T-crypts/faerie macabre

[bloodbrother]

Aggro hate, grave hate, and combo hate. Personally I'm a fan of pyrokensis, leyline of the void, and chalice of the void. For the last couple slots, decide what you want to be more prepared against. Aggro? Play a couple sharpshooters or perishes. Combo? Toss in some mindbreak traps/thorn of amethysts/pyrostatic pillars in addition to the chalices. Control? Play blood moons. Graveyard based decks? Play some planar voids/T-crypts/faerie macabre

thanks, i have additional question. is enchantment hate not worth a sideboard slot in goblins? i've been locked out of the game using needle on my vial and ghostly prison in play.

[JonBarber]

Umm, that sort of stuff isn't in most meta's, but if your concerned about it being in yours you can play anarchy or splash green.

[ScatmanX]

thanks, i have additional question. is enchantment hate not worth a sideboard slot in goblins? i've been locked out of the game using needle on my vial and ghostly prison in play.

If you want to stay in monored, you can use Lightning Crafter, Sharpshooter, Siege-Gang Commander, and burn him trough Prision...

[igri_is_a_bk]

I'm not exactly a Goblin specialist, but I have exactly the same thoughts. I wouldn't do that, and my logic is:
On the draw, merfolk can stop lackey only with is Cursecatcher or FoW.

You also have to expect Merfolk to side in some number of BEBs, which can also deal with Lackey on the play or draw.

[ScatmanX]

You also have to expect Merfolk to side in some number of BEBs, which can also deal with Lackey on the play or draw.

Yes, but then they wasted their best counter and removal on a 1cc card, instead of countering Matron, Piledriver, Ringleader, SGC...
Lackey does not have to connect. Clearing counters away for Driver is already very good.

[HerrFunker]

Aggro hate, grave hate, and combo hate. Personally I'm a fan of pyrokensis, leyline of the void, and chalice of the void. For the last couple slots, decide what you want to be more prepared against. Aggro? Play a couple sharpshooters or perishes. Combo? Toss in some mindbreak traps/thorn of amethysts/pyrostatic pillars in addition to the chalices. Control? Play blood moons. Graveyard based decks? Play some planar voids/T-crypts/faerie macabre

with the group I play with Survival is big. Seems like the deck is getting more and more popular. If you think it will be in your area I would have some needles in your side. They also do well against Painter/Belcher and a few other gimmick decks or in a pinch shut down jitte.

[bloodbrother]

hi guys

here's what i plan to run.

3 Mogg Fanatic (for bridge from below)
4 Æther Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Warren Weirding (for iona, dark depths, progenitus)
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie (ringleader number 5)
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (maindeck answer to artifacts)
1 Lightning Crafter (combo with the sideboard, extra removal, extra matron, ringleader, siege-gang triggers)
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker (combo with the sideboard, extra matron, ringleader, siege-gang triggers)
22 Lands

so far testing the main deck seems fine. i need comments regarding my sideboard.

3 Pithing Needle
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Greater Gargadon

explanation of sideboard choices
3 Pithing Needle - lots of possible targets but mainly for survival of the fittest i guess
4 Thorn of Amethyst - possibly slows combo and burn decks a little bit
4 Tormod's Crypt - this + warren weirding for reanimator, this + greater gargadon for dredge
4 Greater Gargadon - this + tormod's crypt for dredge, answer to ghostly prison

thanks in advance

[GoboLord]

with the group I play with Survival is big. Seems like the deck is getting more and more popular. If you think it will be in your area I would have some needles in your side. They also do well against Painter/Belcher and a few other gimmick decks or in a pinch shut down jitte.

Plus, I like Needle to improve my mana-denial-plan. But somehow there's no room in my SB.
I run 4 Ports, 4 Wastes and I'd really like to have Needle in SB to shut down fetchies.
Any suggestions?

//Lands [22]
4 Mountain
6 Fetches
2 Badlands
2 Taiga
8 Manadenial

// Core [26]
Vial, Lackey, Pile, Warchief, Matron, Ringleader, SGC

//Flex [12]
3 Gempalm
2 Stingscourger
3 Lightning Bolt
3 MWM
1 Tin Street Hooligan

//Sideboard [15]
3 Leyline otV
4 Chalice otV
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Perish
3 Nature's Claim

My meta is really diverse. All I can say is that there are hardly mono-colored decks and/or rouge-decks. Overall I guess it's very deep into U, W and G (in all possible combinations).

How would you integrate Needle in SB?

[ScatmanX]

@Gobbo: I'd do -1 Chalice, and -1 Nature's Claim, and maybe -1 Perish, depending on how good your Zoo MU is.
I really think Needle is the way to go now.

Why do you think the Green splash is worth now?

[jrw1985]

I wrote another tournament report I thought I might as well share here.

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Warren Instigator
1 Earwig Squad

Tribal Sorcerys
2 Warren Weirding

Basic Lands
6 Mountain
1 Swamp

Lands
1 Arid Mesa
2 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Rishadan Port
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland

Sideboard-
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Vexing Shusher
2 Earwig Squad
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
2 Chalice of the Void

Round 1 - Zoo
Game 1 I drew him into deep waters and won, despite being beaten down to 4 life points before I staged my comeback. It was one of those games where I thought I was already dead. 4 life needed only 1 Fireblast or 2 other burn spells to finish me off. When my horde started to grow and he had to throw a Bolt at my otherwise unblocked Lackey I knew I had a chance. It was the sort of game where I made the mental decision to not give up and to play as though I had a chance of winning. And it worked out for me.

Sided out Instigator and Earwig for 2 Pyrokinesis. I no longer run Perish or other color specific hate cards because they don't have enough applications, and I'm no longer horrified of the Zoo matchup.

Game 2 Played the same game I did Game 1, chump blocking when necessary and 1-2ing his creatures when possible, then outdrawing him with Matrons and Ringleaders.

2-0
1-0

Round 2 - Merfolk
Game 1- Mulled to 5. Lost

Sided in Tinkerer, Sharpshooter, 2 Pyros. Took out 2 Weirdings, Earwig, Instigator.

Game 2 he mulled to 5. I won.

Game 3 - He dumped out 2 Silvergill Adepts and a Lord. I pitched a card to Pyrokinesis them all away, and he scooped soon thereafter.

2-1
2-0

Round 3 - AggroLoam

Game 1 - I got greedy and kept a 1 land opening hand. Whoops!

I brought in some GY hate.

Game 2- I was able to kill off his creatures, Port his 1 land in play, and eventually killed him by Vialing in a Faerie Macabre and flying over his Tarmagoyf. That's right. Flying.

Game 3 - This one just never got going for me, and I picked up my first loss.

Looking back on this match I realize I never sided in my Earwig Squads. Now, I really wish I had. They can strip the Loams out of his deck and the GY hate can hit the ones in the GY. Seems good.

1-2
2-1

Round 4 - TES
Game 1- He mulls on the draw, and kills me turn 1.

In come all the Earwigs and 2 Chalices.

Game 2- I aggonized over my hand that was awesome, except that it had an Instigator instead of a Lackey. I chose to keep it, since it had 2 mountains. Well, long story short Instigator got through on turn 3, then he went off for about 10 goblins, and it occured to me that I hadn't sided in my Pyros or Sharpshooters. No worries though, as my Instigator connecting had put me at a hug advantage. I managed to kill off his horde through attacking and then killed off him.

Game 3- I actually decided not to side in my Pyrokenisis this game because the Chalices and Earwig squads minimized my chances of casting them for free anyway. My opponent went off, but not for an impressive amount, and I was once again staring down about 10 goblin tokens. I was able to get some damage through on the attack, and with a Warchief in play Prowled in 2 Earwig Squads. I looked through his deck and removed literally every last threat he had. The 6th card I grabbed was a Xantid Swarm, just to deny him a blocker. He was unable to come back from that blow.

2-1
3-1

Round 5 - Aggro Bant

Game 1- Much like playing Zoo, the trick in this matchup is to drag it out until your board position overwhelms them. It takes a little while, but is entirely winnable. Anywho, I won. Tarmagoyf will only get you so far.

I sided in a Vexing Shusher and some Pyros

Game 2- I played a turn 2 Vial to get around Daze. When I have 2 one drops in hand I'll just bash them through, but with only the one I felt I needed to be more certain of getting it in play. He got out a War Monk and 2 Goyfs and was bashing away. I managed to bring out a SGC and a Chieftain to start double-blocking some 3/4 goyfs. His life total kept on rising with the WarMonk, and it was 25 to 5 when I finally gempalmed the rhino off the battlefield. Shortly thereafter I Ringleadered for 3 more goblins and my opponent scooped.

2-0
4-1

Top 8 - Zoo

Game 1- He kept a 1 land hand for a Taiga/Nacatl opening turn. I Wasted the Taiga and killed his Nacatl and he never saw another permanent.

Game 2 - He got off to a quick start and I stalled. Jitte and Lavamancer hit the board. Scoop.

Game 3- He just kept drawing creatures. So many big, beefy creatures. I stalled out, despite being on the play. Steppe Lynxes and Goyfs beat me down. The end.

Thoughts-
I should have boarded Earwig Squad in more often.
Needle still seems good in a format filled with Survival.
Perish isn't necessary for beating decks with Tarmagoyf.
The end.

[GoboLord]

@Gobbo: I'd do -1 Chalice, and -1 Nature's Claim, and maybe -1 Perish, depending on how good your Zoo MU is.
I really think Needle is the way to go now.

Why do you think the Green splash is worth now?

I thought of:
-1 Chalice
-2 Pyrokinesis

As I said: my meta is very U, G and W, thus Perish is probably the card I bring in most often and Kinesis isn't that good against deck that run FoW/Daze.
Green splash: I don't know what "now" is refering to, but if you are aiming at changes in meta game I can easily explain that. It appears that the meta in western germany isn't influenced by changes in America's meta at all. I guess most of us just have 2-4 decks that they will stick to. e.g. the presence of Reanimator in the first half of the year wasn't nearly as high as it was in America. The same is true now for Vengevival, 4c Landstill and Merfolk - they don't appear more often than any other deck.
Thus, G splash provides me with MD answers for whatever nasty artifact may come in g1 and gives me the possibilty to answer a wide range of cards.
Plus, I f*** like Nature's claim against combo :-D. Here's an anectode:
I was testing against that combo-guy-friend of mine (thus, he knows that I bring in Nature's Claim - he's prepared!). Still in the curse of evening I got him several times just with Claim!
Against DDFT: They need a draw after they built their DD piles - oftentimes it's Sensei's Divining Top. So here we go: He has SDT in play, creates some storm, plays DD. I play Claim on SDT in response. Well... after 15 minutes of thinking and looking up DD piles online he realizes that he can't win cause he can't draw into the combo.
Against TES: I go forst and have Chalice @ 0 and Lackey on turn 1. On his turn 2 he goes of with Rituals, Rites and Tendrils @ 20. In response on the last Tendrils-copy I play Nature's Claim on Chalice, gain 4 life.

First I thought such situations weren't all to common, but they really are! Nature's Claim is a nice trick against combo, even when they are prepared!

@ jrw: I'll read you repot soon and add some comments here.

[ScatmanX]

@Gobbo: Yes, thats exactly what I meant. Thanks.

With that SB (with the +3 Needle), how would you side against Vengevival?
I've been doing quite a lot of testing trying to figure out what's the best approach, but I never tested Nature's Claim.
Against what other decks do you bring it in?