Pump Infect [SOM spoilage]

[Tru3z3rox]

Here:
http://www.factoriademishra.com/phpB...hp?f=10&t=2990

But the list is in Spanish. I have translated it to you:


Creatures (24)
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Necropede
4 Blight Mamba
4 Plague Stinger
4 Vector Asp
1 Hand of the Praetors

Pump (16)
4 Rancor
4 Vines of Vastwood
4 Invigorate
4 Bersek

Lands (20)
4 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Pendelhaven
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Verdant Catacomb
1 Marsh Flats
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Savanah

SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Mark of Asylum
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Relic of progenitus
1 Snuff out

Hah..that is almost my exact list minus the black splash. Finally someone appreciates it. ;)

I agree in that you need ways to power out infectors turn 1. I run 4 ESG for this purpose and 2 sylvan libraries for consistency. I think this deck will improve drastically by the end of the block.

[paeng4983]

hello folks
here's a list that i can share:
feel free to give out your comments:

cretures
4 necropede
4 blight mamba
4 iron claw myr
4 plague stinger
4 ESG

artifact
4 lotus petal

defense
4 STP

pumps
4 invigorate
4 berserk
4 might of old krosa
4 rancor

lands
3 verdant catacomb
3 windswept heath
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 plains
7 forest

SB
3 Pact of negation
4 seeds of innocents
4 reverent silence
4 tormod's crypt

[Tru3z3rox]

hello folks
here's a list that i can share:
feel free to give out your comments:

cretures
4 necropede
4 blight mamba
4 iron claw myr
4 plague stinger
4 ESG

artifact
4 lotus petal

defense
4 STP

pumps
4 invigorate
4 berserk
4 might of old krosa
4 rancor

lands
3 verdant catacomb
3 windswept heath
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 plains
7 forest

SB
3 Pact of negation
4 seeds of innocents
4 reverent silence
4 tormod's crypt

STP really required in this deck? Also I found that 8 mana accels are too much. It makes you less consistent and draws you into too much jank. Aside from that it looks fairly solid.

[Pinder]

Based on the idea of having lots of small cheap creatures and free/cheap pump, I looked at 9-land stompy for inspiration. Because most of the infect guys are 2 mana and you have to go into two colors to get enough creatures, I've added a bit more land, but here's a rough (really rough) list I just threw together:


//Mana (24)
8 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant

//Pump (16)
4 Rancor
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Giant Growth
4 Invigorate

//Creatures (20)
4 Plague Stinger
4 Necropede
4 Blight Mamba
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Vector Asp


Right of the top of my head it seems like there's probably too much mana in there, and increasing the land count means that Land Grant probably isn't as good. It could probaby be more pump/removal, perhaps.

[Ben]

Based on the idea of having lots of small cheap creatures and free/cheap pump, I looked at 9-land stompy for inspiration. Because most of the infect guys are 2 mana and you have to go into two colors to get enough creatures, I've added a bit more land, but here's a rough (really rough) list I just threw together:


//Mana (24)
8 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Land Grant

//Pump (16)
4 Rancor
4 Bounty of the Hunt
4 Giant Growth
4 Invigorate

//Creatures (20)
4 Plague Stinger
4 Necropede
4 Blight Mamba
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Vector Asp


Right of the top of my head it seems like there's probably too much mana in there, and increasing the land count means that Land Grant probably isn't as good. It could probaby be more pump/removal, perhaps.

Cool idea with the Land Grant. You can probabaly cut two more forests. running 4 Rancors is also great because your creature gains trample. I find that trample helps a lot in pushing the last bit of posion counter through to finish your opponent (just incase you are not getting any berserks).
Vector Asp is not really that good, it is a pretty sad turn one drop (Don't hate this comment that is just based on my match experience, some people may disagree of course), I suggest you to switch it for another pump such as Might of Old Krosa or duress/thoughtseize. I find the hand removal to be quite useful when against Survival decks.

Giant Growth can be switched to Vine of Vastwood (Some protection to your creature is needed)
Berserk is actually essential to this deck that I would suggest you to run 4 of it.

Overall I would suggest the following change:
-2 Forest
-4 Vector Asp
-2 Bounty of the Hunt ( I think 2 Bounty is enough for you to get rid of the extra Land Grant)
-4 Giant Growth

+ 4 Vine of Vast Wood
+ 4 Berserk
+ 2 Might of Old Krosa
+2 Sylvan Library
You may side duress/thought seize when against certain decks.

[Gui]

Okay, this deck made a 6-3 at a big tourney @Spain (not me, just forwarding the info)

For those who can read in spanish: http://www.elsantuario.es/foro/index...topicseen.html

[Gocho]

You're a page later :P

[Gui]

True enough, I'm sorry, I just wanted to share... I don't follow this thread much, CHaPuZaS handled me the link and I posted here... never knew it was the same... xD

[Tru3z3rox]

Turn 2 kills pushing past removal consistently seems ok. Counters are my problem now. I have to have Xantid Swarms in the board to push through on something like Merfolk. Though the plus is they don't like swinging into this at all since they will lose something for sure.

I really just think this deck only needs something more like the Myr. It's ability pushes past blockers easily and makes for insta kills even with a Wild Nacatyl out. The black flyer is good for that also. Necropede not so much and the mamba isn't so hot either. If you have one of those two opener, you end up having to burn pump on getting though blockers unless you have extra pump and Berzerk. That's the worst problem I have found.

Got my pre-orders in, man this deck is fuuuunnnnn! If anything, being that I am a smoker, I am talking this to the next Grand Prix so I can always get in a smoke break. It's over in the first three turns easily.

Counters will always be a problem. I run City of Solitude in my board, but I do like the idea of turn 1 Xanthid swarm. I have to get my hands on some.

The only issue with xanthid becomes..they can still counter your seals of strength and might of old krosas. Those must be played during the precombat main phase.

Edit:

Testing City of Solitude has proven that it is a bad card. It completely turns off Vines of Vastwood as protection. I guess Xanthid swarm is the only option?

[paeng4983]

any updates for this venom stumpy from anyone of you guys?
:)

[Tru3z3rox]

any updates for this venom stumpy from anyone of you guys?
:)

Yes. My friend took it to a tournament and went 3-3 or 2-2 then drop..I don't remember. He didn't do well, but he was new to the deck and it was a big tournament. I'm doing more play testing on the side, but I really like it. I'm thinking more and more that I may need to splash black for plague stinger as necropede is just so underwhelming.

I figure I'll wait it out to see what the next set brings.

[TygerClaw]

Has anyone considered Llanowar Augur? Obviously has its problems, only during the upkeep, seen coming a mile away etc. But it may help against some decks like Goblins where it can stop a lackey or even a silvergill adept (without lords of course) while setting up for a big turn. It does give +3/+3 AND trample which isn't bad for G and it avoids Spell pierce. Just a thought.

[Atwa]

I think the biggest problem is that it pumps +3. Combined with Berserk, you'll need another pump spell to go all in.

The card is good, but you don't want to use 2 pumpspells on a 1/1 before you get leathal with Berserk.

[TygerClaw]

I think the biggest problem is that it pumps +3. Combined with Berserk, you'll need another pump spell to go all in.

The card is good, but you don't want to use 2 pumpspells on a 1/1 before you get leathal with Berserk.

Thats a good point. It might be better in lists using noble hierarch and pendelhaven. I'm planning on trying it out (in testing anyhow.)

What is the consistent kill turn usually for the deck? I've found (goldfishing) I'm fairly consistent turn 3 or 4. Is that too slow for legacy anymore? I'm using this for my deck. Also need to switch out a couple cards for invigorate, probably 1 rancor and one elvish spirit guide. I only found 2 copies in my collection!?

//creatures
4 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw myr
4 Blight Mamba
2 Cystbearer
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Elvish spirit guide
2 llanowar augur

//pump
4 rancor
4 vines of vastwood
4 Berserk
2 invigorate
//trying out as 'berserk' 5-6
2 assault strobe

//Lands
6 Forest
1 mountain
1 skarrg, the rage pits
1 pendelhaven
1 oran-rief, the vastwood
1 smoldering spires
1 yavimaya hollow
4 taiga
4 wooded foothills

The Yavimaya hollow is definitely the weakest land, but regenerating an infect creature isn't bad when they shrink blockers or 'counter' surprise burn like pyrokinesis

[Tru3z3rox]

Really? Only 2 Invigorate. That is a huge mistake. That is one of the best pump spells we have in the deck next to berserk. How is cystbearer working for you? I personally don't like going to 3 mana unless he has both evasion and trollshroud. Also I wouldn't pull a rancor for the invigorate. I'd pull the cystbearers. Also the augurs should come out for seal of strength. It is a great investment turn 1 if you have no creatures to play.

I also think the augur is a bad idea as it is a pump that can be dealt with giving you less for when you swing away.

In goldfishing I've had turn 2 wins somewhat consistently, but I'd say the AVERAGE is turn 3.

I'm also still against splashing as it makes us even more vulnerable than we already are.


Edit:

Why subject yourself so heavily to wasteland? Its probably not necessary...

[Ben]

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=35553

I guess based on this deck it is save to say Livewire Lash is a really strong choice forthe Infect based decks
Since this deck is considered to be underpowered without Berserk and Bayou... I suppose when his opponent's board was established to the point that the infect creatures were not able to get the damage through Livewire lash did the job for him.
Essentialy with Rous or Invigorate it could deal 2 poison counters for free

[Tru3z3rox]

Livewire Lash is actually quite interesting. It is our way around moat and scepter chant. Could be a good sideboard card, but not mainboard in my opinion.

[Atwa]

I think cutting Vector Asp is a mistake. It's the only way you'll ever get a T2 kill.

Something this deck lacks, is an endgame (although I believe Livewire Lash is a good way to get one), therefor you should try to get a kill asap. I've played a couple of days with the Infect.dec in Standard and it were always the fast versions that won (22 lands, 20 creatures, 18 pumpspells), not the more controling ones.

Therefor I firmly believe in a format which is way faster, you need to be able get a kill asap. Turn 1 Asp, Turn 2 Invigorate, Berserk is as fast as you get. When on the draw and your opponent lands a Goyf, you're already in trouble.

Also, please don't use any pump spells which pump less then 4. The choice for Rancor is defendable since it recurs itself, but avoid any other. Hell, even Wild Might is a better pumpspell in this deck then cards like Giant Growth and Llanowar Augur. This statement will so ruin any credit I had (if any) on this site :)

[Ben]

I was thinking that you can feed the extra Vector Asps (after turn 2 or 3 this card would become semi-useless) to Throne of Geth. Which can also eat up some Ichorclaw Myr to proliferate if needed.

Then again adding Throne of Geth may decrease the speed of the deck by quite a bit opposing to use to spot for other pump spell or other utility cards.

I think Livewire Lash can be main board just like aggro decks running two jitte. I will try it out and see how it works this week or so.

[Esper3k]

My issue with Livewire Lash is that it's such a mana investment for a deck that's pretty lean, manawise.

Seems interesting though. I like the idea of Infect killing someone with something like that or Soul's Fire.