[Deck] Berserk Stompy

[Tano]

A hint: show your hand to opp isn't good...

I agree in that point , but to show your opponent a very fast killing hand changes most of the time no game situation ( thats my experience of playing ten land super fast aggro with land grant in it)... but i agree "good" is something different

So now lets try a fast aggro build with sylvan libary in it:


9 Forest
1 Dryad Arbor

4 ESG
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Slippery Boggle
4 Skarrgan Pit Skulks
4 Kavu Predator
4 Silhana Ledgewalker

4 Land Grant
4 Berserk
4 Invigorate
4 Might of old Krosa
4 Rancor
3 Bounty of the hunt
3 Sylvan Libary

Not too random now... very fast speed and very aggro and of course at least 3 copies of sylvan libary. Go and try this deck

[paeng4983]

aggressive?
im currently working with this build:

12 forest
4 G fetch

1 arbor
4 ESG
4 noble
4 kavu
3 skyshroud cutter
1 progenitus
3 tarmogoyf

4 Nat. Order

2 S. library
2 w.tutor

4 invigorate
4 berserk
4 might of old krosa
4 vines of vastwood

:)

what do you think of this build?
as i was building this deck, i thought
of using 3 win-con. and i came up with
these
NO-prog
kavu and friends with VoV as its protector
and beat down tarmo with Vov as its protector.

your thoughts guys.
thanks

[Gui]

...

Be sure to keep us up-to-date with your results and matchs
Quirion is probably a bad idea without a mana generating elf there, and it will be uncommon for you to have Land Grants to pitch for BotH, since you'll have only one of these 14 lands 40% of the games. Also black decks can Duress/Kozilek/Thoughtseize your land grant, and blue decks can FoW/Daze/Snare/Spike/Pierce it, which makes you 86% chance on having at least one land drop down to 74% of reliable chance to have a land at starter hand against any deck using blue/black, opposed to the 98% a 16 Forest-only list got at any match.

As I said, 2 Sylvan got better % chances than 3 in having more pumps at early-mid game (switching the 3rd SL for a pump).
Actually, not running Sylvan got better chances than 3 Sylvan too.

...

Seriously? NO-prog?
I'm curious to know your results with it.
I think that maybe this is a new deck, maybe post it under New and Development?

[paeng4983]

hello gui, im not fun of creating a new thread just because i placed/used NO-prog with berserk stumpy.
i'm just thinking of another way to win with this deck because base from what i experienced,
spot removals and/or counters were my main problems specially if im going for the win via berserk.
so this made me think of incorporating NO-prog with this deck.

with the exceptions of noble and prog and vines, before it was llanowar and Simic the skyswallower and seal
that i was using. :)

[Tano]

Be sure to keep us up-to-date with your results and matchs
Quirion is probably a bad idea without a mana generating elf there, and it will be uncommon for you to have Land Grants to pitch for BotH, since you'll have only one of these 14 lands 40% of the games. Also black decks can Duress/Kozilek/Thoughtseize your land grant, and blue decks can FoW/Daze/Snare/Spike/Pierce it, which makes you 86% chance on having at least one land drop down to 74% of reliable chance to have a land at starter hand against any deck using blue/black, opposed to the 98% a 16 Forest-only list got at any match.

As I said, 2 Sylvan got better % chances than 3 in having more pumps at early-mid game (switching the 3rd SL for a pump).
Actually, not running Sylvan got better chances than 3 Sylvan too.




Seriously? NO-prog?
I'm curious to know your results with it.
I think that maybe this is a new deck, maybe post it under New and Development?

@gui: I will tell you about results and matches and if you want Gui, i can tell you the experience from the past, when i played that deck without the Sylvan libaries. So btw, the Quirion Ranger IS a mana producing elf on his own and doesnt need another llanowar elf for doing a good job. Furthermore he is able to produce mana and attack, he can save forests from beeing sinkholed and he can untap critters for blocking and so on. The quirion engine is loaded with a lot mini combos on itself.
Black decks doesnt frighten me since there are boggles and ledgwalkers in my deck. The loss of duressed or hymned cards isnt that bad in my opinion, and really worse were only killing spells like snuff out or smother. But its true that you have to look at your opening hand very seriously and have to make a skillfull desicion, wether you want to play or better take a mulligan. Same is true while playing against blue stuffed decks, because of FoW and all that counter stuff. And not to forget i love playing with only one forest an a quirion + another critter, because unskilled players often think , nothing bad can happen to them with only one forest on the table....

@paeng: Nice idea, why not? hehe... in my opinion a little more mana is needed so try that deck:

12 forest
3 G fetch

1 arbor
4 ESG
4 slippery Boggle
4 kavu
4 Llanowar Elf
1 progenitus
3 Silhana Ledgewalker
4 Quirion ranger

4 Nat. Order

4 invigorate
4 berserk
4 might of old krosa
4 vines of vastwood

So... now it has significant more mana with the Quirion/Llanowar engine and with ESG in hand you are able to do a turn 2 natural order ( what a nice plan B now!). I added Silhana and Boggle too, because they are strong while getting pumped by berserk and strong while getting victimized from natural order. Hmm, i have to say i love this build with berserk and orders, when i look at the deck list :)

[Gui]

@Tano

Good, that would be insightful. Please, post these here, this is also what the forum is for; matchups and results are highly needed.

Don't get me wrong, but I play Stompy since 2006, and it's been at least 2 years since I figured that Land Grant was bad, even when running BotH, since chances that you have Land Grants left to play BotH are low, and it can jeopardize your mana base (as shown above, from 98% of having a land at starter hand down to 74%)

Sylvan Library, with 24 slots dedicated for pump or sylvan, goes like this:
24 pumps -> 60% chance that you have 4 pumps until 4th turn
22 pumps + 2 Sylvan -> 66% chance
21 pumps + 3 Sylvan -> 58% chance

Chances drop. That's because you run less pumps and increase the chances of drawing an useless card. These chances are going to increase after a few turns, but I prefer this deck to be designed to win before 5th turn if possible.


@paeng4983

Right, but, in my oppinion, this is a new deck. It has a different beat-down plan, a different strategy, different matchup analysis, and is not Stable yet. It's not like you are using the same plan with different colors, with the same strategy, matchups, etc...

Actually, Magic-Style's (Etienne Villani) version is less discussed here then I think it could, and it probably have some different results in matchs, which could already be enough for another thread, and Stabilished, since he had so many Top8's.

By the way, @Magic-Style, how is it going with that list using Noble + ESG? I'm not really sure about Noble instead of Petal, and why not using Assault Strobe instead of Fling? Because of instant speed or evasion issues?

[Tano]

@Tano

Good, that would be insightful. Please, post these here, this is also what the forum is for; matchups and results are highly needed.

Don't get me wrong, but I play Stompy since 2006, and it's been at least 2 years since I figured that Land Grant was bad, even when running BotH, since chances that you have Land Grants left to play BotH are low, and it can jeopardize your mana base (as shown above, from 98% of having a land at starter hand down to 74%)

Sylvan Library, with 24 slots dedicated for pump or sylvan, goes like this:
24 pumps -> 60% chance that you have 4 pumps until 4th turn
22 pumps + 2 Sylvan -> 66% chance
21 pumps + 3 Sylvan -> 58% chance

Chances drop. That's because you run less pumps and increase the chances of drawing an useless card. These chances are going to increase after a few turns, but I prefer this deck to be designed to win before 5th turn if possible.

Hey Gui,
i agree and 10 or 9 forest list isnt that list i play today. Iwill tomorrow take part at legacy tournament and i will post the results here in this thread. The deck i will use tomorrow is a 14 forest mono build with ESG and Quirion ranger (without Land grant and Bounty of the hunt). So will see what happens :)

[Masamune]

Hey Gui,
i agree and 10 or 9 forest list isnt that list i play today. Iwill tomorrow take part at legacy tournament and i will post the results here in this thread. The deck i will use tomorrow is a 14 forest mono build with ESG and Quirion ranger (without Land grant and Bounty of the hunt). So will see what happens :)

Natural Order??? Four?? Are you crazy?? it looks like "I have a Berserk Stompy here and if it fail I have a least tool to try to win"
Start with Progenitus in your opening hand and starts crying

[nedleeds]

Getting spell pierced on the draw after keeping a Land Grant hand is a way bigger problem than the Glasses of Urza.

[paeng4983]

hello there guys!
here's what happened to me using this deck over the weekend.
for friday legacy at philcoa, i brought this list:
10forest, 7 G fetches
4 skargan, 4 bogle, 2 scryb sprites, 2 scryb ranger, 4 nettle sentinel
4 kavu, 4 silhana
4 berserk, 4 invigorate, 4 might of old krosa, 4 rancor, 3 seal

sb:
3 reverent silence, 2 fog, 2 vines of vastwood, 4 tormods, 4 rushwood legate

we played 4 rds of swiss without any top8s or 4.
and the meta here were: sur-vengies, sui, dredge
bgw rock, zoo, thresh, stax, enchantress, etc

rd1 - zoo
bogle with rancor on her plus other pump spells sealed both games 1 and 2.
i won 2-0

rd2 - sui
if not for his timely rachet bomb,i almost have this game.
rachet bomb set at one for the win. i lose 0-2

rd3 - bgw rock
p.deeds and spot removals defined this match for him.
i lose 1-2

rd4 - thresh
silhana at skargan (with legate during our 2nd game) gave me the wins for both games.
i won 2-0

saturday, i played with my six HS buddies and one of
them brought two more guys so that bring our numbers
to 8. and the meta were, belcher, dredge, burn, affinity,
5peso,sur-vengies, merpok, stax.
even though this mini tourney was not sanctioned, we
treated it as if it was a sanctioned by having 1 booster
pack of SOM as one's registration fee. and we had decided
that only the 1st and 2nd placer wil have a 6 -2 split of
the prizes at the end of our mini 5rd non- sanctioned event.

this was the list that i brought for saturday's game,
12 forest, 4 G fetch
1 arbor, 4 ESG, 4 noble, 4 kavu, 3 skyshroud cutter, 1 progenitus, 3 tarmogoyf
4 Nat. Order, 2 S.Library, 2 w.tutor
4 invigorate, 4 berserk, 4 might of old krosa, 4 vines of vastwood

sb:
3 naturalize, 4 rushwood legate, 2 fog, 3 seeds of innocence, 3 tormods

rd1 - stax
CUTE. very cute.
i shuffled like 5 or six times and quitely talking to my deck,
"crap of all the 1st rd match, why stax?!"
after the shuffle i let him cut my deck,
roll the die in which he won, then i drew my 7 cards
(NO, s.cutter, esg, esg, fetch, noble,noble )
he opened with tomb casting cotv for one then done.
praying for another esg as my top deck, but it gave another noble instead.
ok drop fetch then done. for his 2nd turn, he dropped city of traitors
and another cotv this time it was set for two. then pass the turn.
i took a deep breath, crack my fectch get myself a forest then begun shuffling
my deck then again quitely talking to it "esg or forest. esg or forest pls pls pls"
on my draw phase, i drew a card. slowly looked at it and there it is my 3rd copy of esg!
without wasting any second i dropped s.cutter - let him gained life - threw 3 esg in the air
and cast NO fetching for progen. wow talk about top decking skills. :) swung progen for two more turns
and i won game one.
game two, he had a very explosive 1st turn, city of traitors plus mox plus trinisphere.
wow. great. as for me forest go. for his 2nd turn he dropped a supp. field. another wow
because my 2nd land that was in my hand was a wooded foothills. i never recovered from it
because i wasnt able to drew a land since then.
game three, ok my turn kavu for my 1st turn and he played cotv at one for his 1st turn.
on my 2nd turn, cast another kavu and s.cutter. attacked my 1st kavu then before stacking
the damage, i cast invigorate making my kavus much bigger. then he scoops. :)
1-0 2-1

rd2 - merpok
i won the die roll and immediately drew 7cards.
prog, s.cutter,cutter, kavu, esg, forest, noble that were in my opening for this rd.

Start with Progenitus in your opening hand and starts crying

hahah for a second or two
anyway, i went kavu and s.cutter as my opening moves. mark scratched his
head a bit before doing any action. dropped an island and plays a catcher. then laughs.
drew berserk. perfect. cast my 2nd cutter for its alternate cost. kavu is now 12/12
attack kavu and my 1st cutter bring his life down to16. on his 2nd turn, again he just scratched his
head and dropped mutavault. on my 3rd turn, just before i tap all my creatures, he already scooped.
game two, i mulled twice because progen was in my opening hand.
on my last mulled i kept a hand of 2 fetches, noble, 2 rushwood.
as i expected, he dropped an island and a vial for his 1st turn. while i dropped
land, legate, legate and noble. he wasnt able to drew lands for the next two or three turns
but managed to bring down atlantis and sovereign because of his vial while on my side i drew kavu but no
pumpers of whatsoever kind. i eventually lose because his school of merpoks were at 4/4 which were
too much for a 0/1 and two 2/1 and a 2/2.
game three, turn one noble, turn two goyf. turn three NO... my oppenent paused for while. scratched his
head again before allowing NO. but before i find my progen he showed to me his hand, all lands. :) he conceded.
i win.
2-0 4-2

rd3 dredge
ok great another bad match up for me.
and as expected he was able to pull off a 2nd turn kill via a bunch of zombie tokens plus FKZ.
game two, the same thing happened but this time,it took him like 3 or 4 turns more before
killing me with his batallion of zombies plus FKZ. i lose miserably.
2-1 4-4

rd4 belcher
my dream of finishing either 1st or 2nd place is now slowly fading away because of the unfavorable match ups
that im having. ok, now i won the die roll and opened with fetch, crack it get a forest cast noble.
while on his side, cast an instant here, cast an instant there. sorcery here, sorcery there and the next thing i knew
he has an army of nasty goblins. i scooped. thinking he will go for those nasty gobs for his game two i packed in
my fogs.
game two, i mulled once because prog was in my 1st seven cards. and settled for
noble, forest, fetch, esg, w.tutor, fog. KEEP
have the same opening move, land noble pass. he on the other hand played a duress
smilingly took my fog from my hand. then for my 2nd turn,i top deck NO. :) things are now going
my way. for his 2nd turn, again he cast an instant here and there. sorcery here and there.
and at the end of it, he manage to cast a belcher BUT cannot activate it because he doesnt had
enough mana to pay for it. :) i swung my prog on my turn then pass. he then tapped for a moment his top
deck and asked for an LED. sweet baby jesus! it was an LED! great! he immediately dropped it sac LED tap
belcher targeting me, and began revealing the top of his library. the very 1st card to be revealed was a
TAIGA - hahaha talk about top decking skills! yeah baby!
game three, his 1st turn he went
land grant, fetching bayou, dark rit, threw ssg,rite of flame, then desperate ritual, cast belcher drop LED.
then stat revealing. we were all smiling and taunting at him because it might happened again. :)
and things went his way, he revealed like ten or more cards before taiga showed up. :) good game
i lose.
2-2 5-6

rd5 - burn
even if one of us manage to win 2-0, such effort is not enough to carry us to either 1st or 2nd place.
we just have it id and decided to watch the game between the top ranking decks for that night
stax 3-1 vs sur-vengies 4-0.

survival won it followed by dredge

then sunday came. after doing some house choirs,
i left the house 12:45 noon, as i was driving the expressway i texted my
good friend redmond and asked him what time does rd1 in titan normally
starts. he said 1pm. crap now i have 15mins left. ok great. i arrived in the venue 45 mins
past one. im late, and everyone was already playing went i got there. :)
and i decided not to play and go home instead and spend the rest of my day with raj.

:)

till next weekend folks.
:)
happy Halloween to all by the way

[NihilObstat]

3 tarmogoyf

Seeing that always brings a smile to the face ^^



On a different topic, I have been thinking and I see a lot of potencial in 4x Sylvan Library + 4x Bounty of the Hunt, for obvious reasons, you can pitch library to bounty, draw a lot with sylvan and then play 4x free pumps.




Also I keep seeing an increasing amount of Merfolks in my meta, huge amount, so I have considered running 4x Scryb Sprites over Nettle because of it's evasion, and 4x Rushwood Legate in my sideboard. Do you see both as good options against the little "see people" or could rushwood fail because of 8x non island lands ?




To TANO: I'm really liking your build but I would deffinitely take 4x Land Grant out, and Dryad Arbor, and add forets, that would leave it in 14, plus ESG, and Quirion, which should be fine, but maybe it would need 1 more land or so.

[Gui]

Rushwood Legate is huge, you can test it, I assure it`s worth testing. Maybe you don't like it, but my opinion is that it works, not only against merfolks, but against anything with Blue (more than half of the decks?).

Scryb is a fine card, never cut it from possible 1cc. I'm not sure if I preffer to be Combo-ish or Aggro-ish against merfolks, aggro-control tends to have more problems against more creatures with some pump backup. I'd say no for cutting Nettle. I'd say yes for adding her as 21st-24th creatures if you got the room.

Also, from my experience more than from my playtest, we are supposed to have a favorable match against merfolks, and with Vexing and Rushwood, it gets better.

[paeng4983]

i always have rushwood legates in my SB because it's a strong card vs. blue base decks.
i remember there was a time (as i was against a thresh then) my opening hand consisted
of 3 rushwood legates. :) on my next turn, i dealt 8 damage to my opponent. sweet!

gui, nihilo, magic-style i sent you guys a private message. :)

other than berserk, invigorate, rancor and might of old krosa, seal of strength,
what other good pump spells that can we add here? thanks..

regarding the sylvan library and bounty of the hunt, i think these combination is
only strong on paper. i'd rather run two sylvan library and other pump spells than
running 4 lib and 4 B.hunt :)

[Gui]

Besides these pumps, Vines of Vastwood is what you should add, but if you are looking for 1cc pumps, then Giant Growth is far my next one, followed by Briar Shield. The only 2cc pump that can be more deadly than Vines is Wild Might, but no trollshroud. I tested Llanowar Augur when I had 4 goyfs in the deck too, but he's not that huge even with goyfs. And of course, if you like you can try Bounty of the Hunt.

[Royal Ass.]

Gui- I noticed in a list you posted on the last page that your deck only ran 16 lands. I recently put a Berserk Stompy deck together and have so far only had a chance to goldfish. I'm running 16 forest and 1 Pendelhaven. I am thinking of upping the forests to 17 plus 1 Pendelhaven. I personally like to error on having a little more mana as I hate to get mana screwed. I am also running 2 Sylvan Libraries and figure that that can help you deal with a situation where you are getting too much land.

Do you find yourself getting mana screwed often with only 16 lands. To me it seems too risky. In goldfishing I feel like I'm getting too many opening hands with only 1 land. I feel like the deck needs 2 lands early on to get things going to deal 20 damage by turn 3-4.

EDIT: Also, have you tried running Noble Hierarchs? They would provide a mana accelerant, pump, and a body to attack with. Seems pretty good in theory. I see some other decks running this. What are you thoughts on it?

[Gui]

Gui- I noticed in a list you posted on the last page that your deck only ran 16 lands. I recently put a Berserk Stompy deck together and have so far only had a chance to goldfish. I'm running 16 forest and 1 Pendelhaven. I am thinking of upping the forests to 17 plus 1 Pendelhaven. I personally like to error on having a little more mana as I hate to get mana screwed. I am also running 2 Sylvan Libraries and figure that that can help you deal with a situation where you are getting too much land.

Do you find yourself getting mana screwed often with only 16 lands. To me it seems too risky. In goldfishing I feel like I'm getting too many opening hands with only 1 land. I feel like the deck needs 2 lands early on to get things going to deal 20 damage by turn 3-4.

To be honest, yes.
Told a friend that a few days ago. I've been trying to increase land count in my tests, I'm currently using 17 forest (which is already better), have tryed 15 and 16 with 4 Noble Hierarch too, but so far, 17 w/o nobles is better for the other two elements -- creatures and pumps.
I find Noble to be weak as a first turn creature when using to few creatures, and I miss having at least 22 pump spots, and currently using 23 (I kind of count Sylvana as pumps :P ). Noble is, tecnically, less safe than plain forests as a mana source, and less effective as a creature, although it's a mini-pump. They are not bad, but I prefer plain old forests.

The need for the second land is a fact, even reducing 2cc counts and playing 4-of Seal, Rancor and Invigorate, I still need the 2 lands to combo fast. And 8 out of my 20 creatures are 2cc, and I refuse to cut them. Bounty, Briar and Augur are the other options of "free spells" that could help combo with 1x land...

I feel like 18 is a good number (wierd how that's the number used by CHaPuZaS at his Top1 in 2007, when he commented "I just felt it was the right number") although it floods sometimes and shrinks my gas. I'll put some test on 18 and 17 + 1x Pendelhaven.

[paeng4983]

helle there guys!

white most of you are tweaking with the 12-18 infect dudes,
im thinking of ADDING this infect mechanic with what i currently
have with my 5peso stumpy (berserk stumpy).
here's what i have as of the moment:

4 wooded foothills
4 windswepth heath
2 savannah
2 bayou
2 taiga
3 forest

4 kavu predator
3 skychroud cutter
4 slippery bogle
4 noble hierarch
4 qasali pridemage

3 Lotus Petal

4 berserk
4 invigorate
4 might of old krosa
3 Vines of vastwoods
4 tainted strike
2 assualt strobe

regarding the sideboard, im still thinking of what to use.
your thoughts guys
:)


*reposted it here. i hope im not violating
any forum rules because it fits on both topics.
*thanks for the pics gui

[Gui]

Hey paeng4983,

I think it's possible to use tained strike in here, yes, but it got the same problem Strobe got: it won't stack as berserk does. You'd probably be better running 4/3/3 berserk/strobe/tained.

Also, with all that berserkish material, there's no reason not to play a full set of Silhana Ledgewalkers there. They got everything you want from a creature for berserk: Evasion and Protection.
Not using rancor is debatable, but Silhanas are alto-include IMO.

I don't know what to cut, tho. I'd probably try this:
-1 vastwood
-1 pridemage
-2 hierarch
-1 skyshroud cutter
-1 tained striken

And then:
+1 Assault Strobe,
+1 Lotus Petal
+4 Silhana Ledgewalker

I don't know if ESG wouldn't be better than Noble too...

[paeng4983]

Hey paeng4983,
it got the same problem Strobe got: it won't stack as berserk does.

i did not get this? are you saying that if i cast T.S., it will not go to stack?
T.S. has instant speed. so if he manage to counter your berserk, then you
still have another outlet via T.S.

i was thinking of using 4 noble and 4 qasali for the extra +1/+1 :)
i think i'll revamp this again so that i can get silhana back and probably ESG too.

[NecroYawgmoth]

He means stacking if you have 2 of them... Berserk doubles the damage in such a situation, Strike doesn't...

look, for example... if you have a creature [Bogle for example]

Berserk mathematics

1/1
+ MooK = 5/5
+ Berserk = 10/5 Trample
+ Berserk = 20/5 Trample -> enough


Tainted Strike mathematics

1/1
+MooK = 5/5
+ Tainted Strike = 6/5 Infect
+ Tainted Strike = 7/5 Infect -> not enough