Survival of the Fittest

[dontbiteitholmes]

I would agree Survival has been around before and its even been a DTB before. However, its never been in the discussion of the best deck in the format. Nor has it even been so "dominating" that it has drawn out calls for banning it or has it needed dedicated Sideboard hate.

Yes it was and yes it has. Just because you weren't playing Legacy yet doesn't mean it didn't happen. People were all about banning Survival and they had a much better excuse at the time since Pithing Needle and Krosan Grip didn't exist yet.

Survival decks will continue to pop up from time to time, they all have the same weaknesses though. If Survival gets dealt with before you get a chance to use it you are just playing a subpar creature deck, Vengevine or not.

[ivanpei]

Just a side note for all those who are having trouble beating survival. Please play the deck that absolutely monster bashes it, UWGB/ UBG Landstill. Us guys on the landstill thread are having a ball against survival, our BEST possible matchup. Nothing better than playing a pure control deck that wrecks a midrange deck like survival.

[(nameless one)]

Ive also been testing Quinn against U/G Madness and G/W Survival and so far, I am happy with the results.

[frenchy-man]

It is funny because many people (and I was one of them) want survival/VV to be banned because it is dominating tournaments. It is just a matter of time before decks and metagame adapts to it.
Remember two months ago it was merfolk that was THE dtb. I am quite happy with this change of dtb.

btw, any ideas about the price of a japan mint survival ??

[Amon Amarth]

It is funny because many people (and I was one of them) want survival/VV to be banned because it is dominating tournaments. It is just a matter of time before decks and metagame adapts to it.
Remember two months ago it was merfolk that was THE dtb. I am quite happy with this change of dtb.

I'd like to remind everyone, as has been said before me, this has happened before numerous times in Legacy. This is not new. The format as a whole is very slow to change, part of which is due to low incentive. I think people aren't used to seeing lots of Survival decks in the Top 8's of tournaments but people would never bat an eye if that were Brainstorm or Force of Will. This much Green is pretty new to most Magic players... unless of course you've been paying a little attention to Standard in the past few years. Heh. I wish I could remember the article were Mike Flore (I think?) was talking of Jund's dominance but otherwise lack of degeneracy. I think it's applicable to Legacy right now.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the DCI banned Survival of the Fittest. They've done it to far better cards. *coughmysticaltutorcough.

[dontbiteitholmes]

If we banned a card everytime one card/decktype looked dominating for a month or two we would have banned Survival 5 years ago, Counterbalance, Tarmogoyf, Force of Will, Brainstrorm, Lord of Atlantis, Goblin Lackey, Brainfreeze, Standstill, and who knows what else.

[GGoober]

Island, I would imagine.

[mossivo1986]

Island, I would imagine.

I second that motion for basic island to be banned.

[DragoFireheart]

I second that motion for basic island to be banned.

I'll third that notion.

[Kuma]

I just sent this to Tom LaPille at Wizards of the Coast. I suggest all who feel likewise do the same.

Dear Tom LaPille,

I'm sure it has come to your attention, and the attentions of all others who work on the B/R lists, that UGx Vengevine Survival decks have been dominating the recent StarCity Games Legacy opens. These decks have put between one and five people in the top eight of each event since the deck premiered at GP Columbus. You've probably had several conversations on what, if anything, should be done about the Survival of the Fittest + Vengevine combo. There has been much discussion on www.mtgthesource.com about what should be done about this new combo. Mine, and the majority's opinion is that if anything is to be done that Vengevine be banned and not Survival of the Fittest.

"Free" cards have always been problematic, and Vengevine is the latest in a string of "free" cards that are too powerful for the Legacy format. Swinging with three or four hasty Vengevines on turn three has proven too strong for the format, as is evidenced by the growing number of top-eight placements. Efforts to hate it out of the format have as yet proven unfruitful. While there is still time before the December B/R announcement, the format can't seem to adapt.

Survival of the Fittest is a powerful tutor engine, and we know how you guys like to ban enablers, but without Vengevine the card is fair in Legacy. There are numerous fun, fair, decks that use Survival of the Fittest. There's a UGW deck that plays like Bant Aggro with a backup plan of Loyal Retainers/Iona, Shield of Emeria. There's a GB Survival deck that wins by putting Necrotic Ooze and some fatal combination of creatures in the graveyard. There's classic GRb Survival advantage, Elf Survival, and Gw Survival too. I would hate to see these decks suffer for Vengevine's sins.

Survival is one of the most beloved cards in Magic history. Without Vengevine, it had been placing but not dominating Legacy tournaments. It would make me and a great deal of Legacy players sad to see Survival decks leave the format entirely.

Preserve Legacy's diversity --- ban Vengevine not Survival of the Fittest.

[Amon Amarth]

Damn I gotta stop drunk posting because I don't remember saying anything about wanting to ban a damn thing.

[alderon666]

Funny thing is that when they banned Mystical Tutor out of freaking nowhere a bunch of people came here to say that they were right because Storm/Reanimator was dominating the metagame. The problem is that IT WASN'T!!!!!1111

Now that Survival IS beating everything and their dogs people just keep saying it's fine and that the metagame will adapt.

Agreeing with WOTC is so easy isn't it?

[menace13]

Why does it always have to be a ban? Why don't they unban Mystical or a few other cards(the list has a few: Land Tax, Eartcraft) instead of banning everything where no other format will play it?

[Sevryn]

Why does it always have to be a ban? Why don't they unban Mystical or a few other cards(the list has a few: Land Tax, Eartcraft) instead of banning everything where no other format will play it?

Nothing should be banned this go round. If survival is still dominating in 6 months, then WotC should consider banning vengevine. There just hasn't been enough time to make such a judgement, and doing something like this would discourage innovation in the format because if a new concept is good it will just be banned in the near future. It would be a poor precedent, IMO.

[codegeass]

ok so i am trying to figure out if i should sell my 4xSurvival of the Fittest and 4xvengevines if they do end up banning Survival of the Fittest it will i will lose a lot of money right now i have an offer for $250 on the 4xSurvival of the Fittest and 4xvengevines should i take it of just hope they do not ban anything

[codegeass]

Ok so i am trying to figure out if i should sell my 4xSurvival of the Fittest and 4xvengevines. If they do end up banning Survival of the Fittest it will i will lose a lot of money. Right now i have an offer for $250 on the 4xSurvival of the Fittest and 4xvengevines should i take it of just hope they do not ban anything?

[scrumdogg]

That will depend on several factors including how much you enjoy playing Survival, how much you need the money (or need to get your money back out of the cards...), and whether you can still use them for the month then sell them before the December announcement :)

[ivanpei]

Aren't survivals 40 ea and venges about 35 ea? Thats like $300 easy. $250 is not that great of a price IMO. Survivals will always have a place in EDH. If venge gets banned neither venge or survival will drop. Survival still has many other broken interactions and venge is still played in standard. If Survival gets banned, we'd probably see a fairly steep drop, probably to the 20+ range. Say it stabilizes at 25. You'd lose $60, so your playsets are worth $240. That's not that much difference compared to $250. If you sold it now and nothing gets banned, good luck finding survival for under $50, it's gonna be tough. I'd hold on to em.

[frogboy]

If Survival gets banned it will be maybe $10. Vengevine was $50 the weekend of Regionals before Survival-Vengevine was even a thing. It would probably drop to $30 as Legacy players liquidated and probably be about $40 by the middle of the next Standard season.

($250 is a medium embarrassing offer. Survivals and Vengevine both retail at about $40.)

[majikal]

($250 is a medium embarrassing offer. Survivals and Vengevine both retail at about $40.)

Survival has actually jumped to around $50 baseline on eBay, with some retailers charging as much as $60! Ridiculous. o_O