Survival of the Fittest

[FieryBalrog]

Wait, wasn't Junk some sort of Pikula splash Green?
And The Rock GB disruptive Aggro?

Rock is often GBW in Legacy, Dark Horizons is the standard GBW disruptive midrange deck running undercosted fat.

[alderon666]

Or you two could get on MWS and play. All this matchup talk is irrelevant anyway. Legacy comes down to whether or not you can outplay your opponent. If you lost to someone who made a play mistake, then chances are you misplayed somewhere in that game.

Because if two top players play a game without making a single mistake, then the games ends in a draw.



Has someone heard about something on Aaron Foresythe Twitter about infinite tutors?

[majikal]

Has someone heard about something on Aaron Foresythe Twitter about infinite tutors?

I have a love-hate relationship with toolbox decks. The one-of's make for some interesting opening hands, but then tutor-n-shuffle kicks in.

about 10 hours ago via web

Aaron's Random Card Comment of the Day #29, 11/4/10

The structure of this card is based on that of the oft-reprinted original card advantage machine Jayemdae Tome. Replace the 4’s with 6’s and change “draw” to “tutor” and there you have it.

As I designer, I like this card about a tenth as much as I like Jayemdae Tome. As designers, we strive to make sure the game has the right amount of variance in it; variance leads to replayability and it keeps the outcomes of individual games in doubt longer. Players, at least those whose primary goal is winning, strive to reduce the variance in the game as much as possible. Things like tutors, scry, and card drawing are used to make sure the same spells come up in essentially the same order--or at the very least at close to the right time--game after game. If a deck can consistently assemble a game-winning combo on turn two, players will do that over and over and over. Games like that get really boring really fast, so we need to fight back against that. The mystery of the draw is a vital part of the game.

Tutoring every single turn has the potential to remove all the variance from at least one player’s part of the game. Once Planar Portal is up and running, assuming its controller isn’t under significant pressure, the outcome of the game is a foregone conclusion.

Not only does Planar Portal eliminate variance, it adds shuffling, which is another way to make a game consistently less fun.

The only thing that makes the card printable are the high costs associated with using it; you have to spend 12 mana to get the first benefit out of it. The mere act of surviving long enough to activate it is a feat in itself. It’s okay for us to print cards like this that do powerful-but-bad things at high costs once in a while, but personally I’d rather focus our efforts on powerful-and-fun.

[HAVE HEART]

Because if two top players play a game without making a single mistake, then the games ends in a draw.



Has someone heard about something on Aaron Foresythe Twitter about infinite tutors?

... and every top player plays blue, which means that if someone lost, then there was definitely a line of play that should have gone differently in order to change the outcome of the game.

[Dark Ritual]

GW survivine would like a word with the top players. The deck lacks blue except it sometimes 'splashes' blue for just wonder in the form of one tropical island. It is also noted that it has been putting up a ton of results lately notably in the SCG 5k's.

I have had games where I make absolutely zero mistakes and still lost. Mana flooded without a brainstorm + fetch? Good job, you just lost most likely if you're playing any type of typical blue aggro control deck.

[HAVE HEART]

GW survivine would like a word with the top players. The deck lacks blue except it sometimes 'splashes' blue for just wonder in the form of one tropical island. It is also noted that it has been putting up a ton of results lately notably in the SCG 5k's.

I have had games where I make absolutely zero mistakes and still lost. Mana flooded without a brainstorm + fetch? Good job, you just lost most likely if you're playing any type of typical blue aggro control deck.

How can you say this? Unless you had your game reviewed by multiple professionals, then it is hard to believe your self-review. You could have built your deck incorrectly, mulliganed incorrectly, sideboarded incorrectly or mismanaged your role.

[Amon Amarth]

How can you say this? Unless you had your game reviewed by multiple professionals, then it is hard to believe your self-review. You could have built your deck incorrectly, mulliganed incorrectly, sideboarded incorrectly or mismanaged your role.

Um, strategic superiority? Play any Storm Combo deck perfectly against any Aggro deck perfectly and the Combo deck will win the lion's share of the games. You know, because the Aggro deck can't interact in any meaningful way.

[lordofthepit]

Seven more Top 16's at SCG Boston, including the top 2 spots: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...eckshow.php?&t[C1]=leg&start_date=2010-11-07&end_date=2010-11-07&event_type=SCLO

[death]

Survival once again swept Boston, claiming 1-2 finish and basically half of the top 16.

Ninja'd

[SlopeeJ]

What's up with all the noobs at Starcity, all they need to do is adapt and run some needles and spell snare for the win.......

[[PMP]Krevvy]

Looking at the sideboards of the decks it seems people are starting to hate survival more then the past few tournaments.

Dread still deck had 2 Pithing Needle, 2 Tormod's Crypt, 3 Hibernation, maybe 1 Firespout to fight them. Though the reason for no jace 2.0 seems strange.

Dark Horizons was using 4 Aven Mindcensor, 3 Extirpate for the match up i would think.

Goblins already have a good match up against survival as far as i am aware.

Sneak attack/show and Tell deck packed 1 Pithing Needle, 3 Meddling Mage, 3 Extirpate, and maybe 2 Perish possibly against the GW ones.

BWG coutnertop was using 1 Pithing Needle, 1 Relic of Progenitus, 3 Peacekeeper,3 Krosan Grip, 3 Path to Exile and probably went into a jace win mode.

Storm has a good match up.

So the sideboards are still general hate cards but some things seem a bit more focused such as the extirpates to take out vengvines or survivals if one is destroyed. Hibernation just stops survival normally. Peacekeeper has already begun to make a impact and is on the rise still with all these aggressive decks around. And more people are playing Spell Snare MD.

In a few more weeks survival may no longer be as dominate as it is and maybe still be one of the best decks but not the deck to only play.

[dontbiteitholmes]

Survival once again swept Boston, claiming 1-2 finish and basically half of the top 16.

Ninja'd

Haha, but at the same time my favorite thing ever happened. They decktech'd obviously shitty decks that then went on to finish super bottom tier. I love it when SCG does that. The best was when they did it with that guy playing Legacy Jund in Minneapolis and he went on to finish dead last place.

Anyways, yeah obviously a good showing for Survival yet again. Once again though we need to see full stats before we go jumping to conclusions. Also once again we can see the format evolving. 2 Reanimators and 3 Dark Horizons in the top 16. Not decks we are used to seeing in top 16s and it just goes to show that the format is still in motion. Just remember Vine Survival bandwagon is in full swing, it likely made up the largest % of the metagame, not likely 43% but still enough to explain it being that % of the top 8.

[ivanpei]

I feel sad that a banning is most probably going to happen now though it isn't necessary. It will most probably be survival but I pray it doesn't happen. Maybe wizards likes creatures (goblins pre tarmogoyf) and will be pleased with the variety and innovation survival provides. One can be hopeful lol.

[2Rach]

2 Reanimators and 3 Dark Horizons in the top 16.

There was 1 Reanimator in there, the other was a Sneak Attack deck. You don't check? This is just another in a long shitty line of naming screwups. Last SCG they messed up, calling Junk Junk and Dark Horizons in the same top 16.

As a side note, anyone else amused at SCG trying to push their own lexicon?

[Cabal_chan]

There was 1 Reanimator in there, the other was a Sneak Attack deck. You don't check? This is just another in a long shitty line of naming screwups. Last SCG they messed up, calling Junk Junk and Dark Horizons in the same top 16.

As a side note, anyone else amused at SCG trying to push their own lexicon?

If by pushing, you mean showing how ignorant they are, then yes :P. Their lexicon and naming scheme is just about as bad as their coverage(if you exclude the ggslive chat box).

[Mark Sun]

There was 1 Reanimator in there, the other was a Sneak Attack deck. You don't check? This is just another in a long shitty line of naming screwups. Last SCG they messed up, calling Junk Junk and Dark Horizons in the same top 16.

As a side note, anyone else amused at SCG trying to push their own lexicon?

No surprise here, anything they can do to push a deck or its parts, they'll do. Decktechs were even worse than the ones I remember seeing before this time. Anyone know the reason for the outage, btw?

[Scordata]

Having just recovered from the Boston 5k, I can give you guys a little info on the meta.

Lots o' Survival
Lots o' Rock
Some TES/ANT variants.

I brought a tempo deck, which was a REAAAllly bad idea.

The meta is shifting boys and girls, buckle up and enjoy the ride.

[Master Shake]

Why won't these people metagame on a higher level than this?

I talk about this extensively in other place, but the answers are obvious and no one seems to want to accept that they may need to make shifts in the main deck to more competently combat Survival strategies. The wining deck played an Aven Mindscensor in the sideboard and the rock deck played four... That's a start. How about Spell snare now, guys?

Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus are just not answers for these decks and its frustrating that no one realizes it. I'll just put this out there for everyone:

Ooze Combo can still win under Crypt, Relic, Planar Void, Nihil Spellbomb, Withered Wretch and Phyrexian Furnace at the same time. Part of the reason for this is the fact that after sideboarding, decks tend to be way slower.

Dredge and most other graveyard strategies are just moot points now, it's time to really play cards that hurt survival, not cards that you can get the most mileage out of.

Concerning the idea of banning Survival, I'm against it, I ant to give it at least three more months. Perhaps in an additional three months people will realize that playing Affinity still doesn't beat anything and will start looking at how you combat the three blends of Survival decks.

However, I feel that Wizards is going to run the same experiment they did to see if Mystical Tutor was too good, if this happens then one of the format's trademark card is gone forever and we can all go back to watching people try to figure out how to optimize Affinity, they've been doing it this whole time, and that is why this problem has happened.

The Star City series is such a poor example of the Legacy metagame, it's frustrating to think that it may be the only source of tournament data that Wizard's pays attention to.

[Sims]

Why won't these people metagame on a higher level than this?

I talk about this extensively in other place, but the answers are obvious and no one seems to want to accept that they may need to make shifts in the main deck to more competently combat Survival strategies. The wining deck played an Aven Mindscensor in the sideboard and the rock deck played four... That's a start. How about Spell snare now, guys?

Tormod's Crypt and Relic of Progenitus are just not answers for these decks and its frustrating that no one realizes it. I'll just put this out there for everyone:

Ooze Combo can still win under Crypt, Relic, Planar Void, Nihil Spellbomb, Withered Wretch and Phyrexian Furnace at the same time. Part of the reason for this is the fact that after sideboarding, decks tend to be way slower.

Dredge and most other graveyard strategies are just moot points now, it's time to really play cards that hurt survival, not cards that you can get the most mileage out of.

Concerning the idea of banning Survival, I'm against it, I ant to give it at least three more months. Perhaps in an additional three months people will realize that playing Affinity still doesn't beat anything and will start looking at how you combat the three blends of Survival decks.

However, I feel that Wizards is going to run the same experiment they did to see if Mystical Tutor was too good, if this happens then one of the format's trademark card is gone forever and we can all go back to watching people try to figure out how to optimize Affinity, they've been doing it this whole time, and that is why this problem has happened.

The Star City series is such a poor example of the Legacy metagame, it's frustrating to think that it may be the only source of tournament data that Wizard's pays attention to.

This. This man speaks so much truth it hurts.

[Michael Keller]

The Star City series is such a poor example of the Legacy metagame, it's frustrating to think that it may be the only source of tournament data that Wizard's pays attention to.

+10.