All B/R update speculation.

[Meekrab]

Gush, on the other hand, is way too good.

Agreed, but for a different reason. The card pretty much says: "Add 1 mana to your mana pool: Draw two cards." Fetchland Tendrils with Gush would be like a high school football team starting Adrian Peterson.

I'm excited to see what Vintage players do with those two cards, though. AFAIK they aren't even regularly played as 1ofs anymore?

[keys]

All three of those require you to do something other than play the game of magic to be threatening.

I was talking about Loam decks... ?

Creatures that often beat Goyf (off the top of my head):

Tombstalker
Vampire Nighthawk
Vengevine
Rhox War Monk
Knight of the Reliquary
Countryside Crusher
Terravore
Coralhelm Commander
Stingscourger
Gathan Raiders
Jotun Grunt

Goyf is still the most undercosted fatty in the format, but he's not always the best.

[Tangle.Wire]

"I believe there will be a time" where they unbann anything else than ante cards and also give every card of any set a restriction, people will see what decks are really the best by running 60+ highlander decks with the ability to play any card they want.


Its the most possible fair format at all, while restrictions normally balances the outsourcing of playing multiple copies of a card, i also like the idea of of playing every card of the deck only 1 time (don't reminding recursion). Reminding ugly combos beeing able to play i think this can't be the judgement as everyone would have access to the same cardpool and also there won't be a deck to beat as there are to many ways to win. Saying this is insane because creature based decks won't win in such a format is stupid since i noticed that every deck has its own deck to beat, WotC won't bann krosan grip just because it hurts my dreadnoughts.... think about!

I personally don't mind if i lose against a first turn dredge assault, first turn storm assault or either necropotence/firestorm if i wasn't able to beat it thats it.

[Gheizen64]

Aside from the speculation from Venge/Survival, do you think something will get unbanned in case they ban something to make up for it? Twist and Tax are two bad cards still on the list for no reason and i see absolutely no harm if they unban them. And ok.
But maybe they will give us something to make up for the lost creature-combo deck? Maybe Earthcraft or Druid? Earthcraft would go in ench for a slightly easier win cond with Mesa probably, or probably no. Honestly i see Earthcraft as another pretty mediocre card.
Druid is more debatable, but it has similarities to current survival; it need 1G and then untap with G instead of GGG to win on the spot, however survival has:

- a better alternate plan (beatdown)
- a way better mana base (can run basics)
- less vulnerability to creature removal
- no need to run useless cards to make the combo work
- no summoning sickness

Druid look to me as a worse version of survival nowadays and is way better hated out with simple creature removal. Imho Druid could be a sort of a "replacement" for survival in case it end banned. The combo are of similar speed and they have similar consistency but Survival seems way better to me (am i missing something?).

Or they could be crazy and unban Bargain or Mana Vault lol.

[(nameless one)]

Its funny how none of the cards in the poll ever got the axe with the previous B/R updates that we've had.

And yes, I think I am going to start tinkering with a Parfait deck just in case Land Tax gets unbanned.

[swoop]

Afaik Land Tax was mentioned by WOTC as a card that deteriorates magic "rules" too much, as it makes players NOT play lands
by plan, rather then by some tactic, so they said no-no.

[(nameless one)]

That's really unfortunate because dredge should be on top of that category.

[Pastorofmuppets]

I still want Desire or Frantic off.
Especially since I have playsets of both.
Let's say Desire got taken off: How high would its price go?

[lordofthepit]

I still want Desire or Frantic off.
Especially since I have playsets of both.
Let's say Desire got taken off: How high would its price go?

Maybe $4-5 at best, after initial speculation. Combo pieces (like Ad Nauseam and Doomsday) don't fetch very much, and both can be had for under $1.

[Meekrab]

The difference though, is that Ad Nauseam and Doomsday are 1 or 2-ofs in almost every build. Desire would be played as a 4-of. And the deck is lots easier to play than TES or AnT ever could be.

[Pastorofmuppets]

Either way, I learned my lesson with Monolith. I got the last one on TnT before the price shot up. Buying things on the Legacy banlist is never a bad idea if there's a chance it'll come off. Oh, and Metalworker didn't net me any profit, and I grabbed a set of those like 2 months before it was off.
Oh, and I got Power Artifact the same night that Monolith was announced. More profit.
The Unbanhammer is a wonderful thing

[kevin.f.brewer]

I'm all for removing several banned cards and/or adding a restricted list to allow some cards at a safe level. A card should be pretty busted to stay banned, and let the players and the metagame sort things out.

[swoop]

Skullclamp please?

[SurFitOfTheVine]

Why isn't Show and Tell in this poll? A card that allows random wins with Emrakul should be banned, period. It's not even good, it's just random.

[DragoFireheart]

Why isn't Show and Tell in this poll? A card that allows random wins with Emrakul should be banned, period. It's not even good, it's just random.

Because it loses to:
Sower of Temptation
Humility
Oblivion Ring
Gilded Drake


I'm almost tempted to optimize a burn deck to take advantage of the meta. The death of Counterbalance means that burn can thrive while everyone focuses on yard hate (which does nothing to burn).

[(nameless one)]

Skullclamp please?

As much as I love the Crazy88 engine, I don't see Clamp getting the yes anytime sooner.

[SurFitOfTheVine]

Because it loses to:
Sower of Temptation
Humility
Oblivion Ring
Gilded Drake

Well, that's no valid reason. Show and Tell is a dumb card that puts dumb Emrakul into play. All you need is to have both in your hand. I don't know about you but I really hate to lose to extreme randomness.

[DragoFireheart]

Well, that's no valid reason. Show and Tell is a dumb card that puts dumb Emrakul into play. All you need is to have both in your hand. I don't know about you but I really hate to lose to extreme randomness.

Stop playing cards game then?

[swoop]

As much as I love the Crazy88 engine, I don't see Clamp getting the yes anytime sooner.

with all the stupid ideas, I hoped mine wouldn't be noticed ^^ :D

[pippo84]

LOL!!!

Look at the poll above and you will see that players just complain about everything and always!!

A few months ago this poll was opened and now?? Survival Vengevine is everywhere and CB is almost nowhere!

MOG ban that Sensei's Divining Top, that Standstill and that...

Just an example of how people just moan all the time.

Adapt to the metagame that evolves.