In general, I try to get the most cards(lands) out of Wayfarer as humanly possible. I rarely tutor for dual lands or basics directly, unless my opponent is packing Stifle, and I desperately need the mana asap. This not only heightens the chance of drawing actual spells in your draw step, but you can also activate Wayfarer again in response to activating fetchland. Wasteland is probably my primary target with Warefarers, as the in-response-to-my-fetchland-I-activate-Wayfarer-feat works here as well, and there's plenty of targets there.
If it's your opponent's second turn and you're already in shit too deep to make use of your primary card advantage engine because of two dudes on your opp's side, chances are you already fubared things anyway (that's what you got those Dazes and Forces for).
Depending on my opponent's one- and two-drop (I'll assume they're not Golin Lackey or anything else that's as threatening - if they just dumped out a 1/2 Tarmogoyf, yeah, that's perfectly fine with me and I'll gladly ignore that sucker unless my life totals call for a change of heart), I'd either
o) draw a card and activate Wayfarer in my main phase if I'm not seeing enough land to keep me in the game.
o) activate wayfarer in my upkeep (fetching wasteland), reducing my chance to topdeck another land in turn, and then decide about my actual landdrop if I'm holding another colored-mana-providing land in hand before I draw.
Described game state is REALLY vague. You're against Zoo? Facing down Nacatl + Pridemage? You're against Goblins? Facing Lackey + MWM? Are the "1 and 2 drops" even creatures? Top + Counterbalance? Do you have some removal? Some way to dig for removal? One of your x/4 guys that might be able to help stall?Originally Posted by Star|Scream
The deck can be a bit of a balancing act - juggling your tempo versus your opponents'. There isn't really a general guideline. If your opponent is applying a bunch of creature pressure one has to weigh the effects of land disruption (cutting off a color, shrinking a Nacatl, walking the opp into Daze, etc) versus a need for blockers/digging for removal.
@Colo: Thanks for the response. Would you usually mulligan a hand with no counters?
@Cairo: I think what I'm trying to figure out is, activating a wayfarer and wastelanding every turn means you're doing nothing else at all. So I was just trying to see what other folks' strategies are regarding their first few turns.
Only if it's confirmed I'm facing some kind of combo that can't be stopped by anything else.
Yea like Colo said, certainly trying to pull as much CA out of Weathered Wayfarer is optimal and the earlier you can apply Wasteland pressure the more milage you get out of them and your Dazes and Spell Pierces.
Versus match ups like Zoo on the draw I think it's hard to get much action out of Weathered Wayfarer because they're often quite fast out of the gates and unless you have a FoW/StP for their turn 1 play it's hard to be in a position to use Wayfarer early enough for it to generate virtual card advantage/leave them stranded with cards in hand. Versus something like multicolored Goblins where their curve is so much higher I think it can definitely be an ok strategy to go for "Waste-lock" if they're w/o Vial or Lackey and are playing out duals.
Versus something like Blue decks or even Rock/Junk I'd absolutely try to get Weathered Wayfarer going and slow down their mana progress, while thinning the deck - moving into the mid-game with the opp having a stunted mana base and the deck thinned of an extra couple land (in an already land light deck, at 17 cards) leaves you at a great advantage both with board development and card quality of top decks.
So I've been testing this deck a lot online and my results have been extremely positive. As far as I can tell, it doesn't really have any bad matchups, and it has a lot of really good matchups, which makes me like it a lot more than D&T. Before I commit to putting down money to finish out the deck though, I'm wondering how likely is it to stay viable in the future? Within the past year the entire deck changed by maybe a single card in the main, and it's considered optimized as is. Does this mean that it might have trouble adapting to a changing metagame? Or is it simply that the deck doesn't need to make any changes to a shifting metagame?
I'm still pretty new to the Legacy scene, so I'm a little wary of going for a deck that isn't as popular.
Its cheap enough, so why worry? And what isn't cheap, can easily be used in other decks or sold (Tundra/Fow/Wasteland). It does have bad match ups though.
All it means, there are no new cards good enough to significantly change the maindeck. The last one was Stonefroge Mystic.
How does everyone feel the matchup against Show and Tell decks are? Ive played several games against them and have been having some troubles. Particularly if they force through there Show and Tell its pretty much gg. Any tech out there to help fight this matchup. Personally im playingtesting Vesuvian Shapeshifter in the Sphinx slot to help shore up my game against random fatties.
Would Man-O-War help there? If they resolve Show and Tell, you put in your Man-O-War and bounce their Emrakul. Doesn't work against Progenitus, though.
This looks like a job for me.
Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.
If you're referring to UR Sneak - Show ( the only build of SnT I've seen recently ), then we have as much countermagic as they do preboard: 4 Force, 3 Daze, 2 Pierce at the very least. Post-board we get additional Pierces and they get Pyroblast. But they are probably going to have a hard time casting SnT/Sneak in a timely manner while simultaneously avoiding Daze/Pierce.
I would suggest Clique replacing Sphinx over Man-o-War any day. I'd also suggest running a singleton Karakas somewhere in your 75 if it's a problematic matchup. Honestly, we should just be devoting resources to winning the counterwar over their bombs. They have to expend 3 - 4 mana + mana for Pierce/Blast while we expend maybe 1 or 2 at the most. If they've developed their board position to such a state and you haven't put any pressure on them, there's something wrong.
Board in your storm hate, especially canonist. You can't lose counter wars when they can't counter back and they will rarely have efficient answers.
I like Canonist for this. What about Revoker?
Last edited by Star|Scream; 03-03-2011 at 01:53 PM.
Leonin relic-warder eats phyrexian dreadnought as does flickerwisp. Bounce also works wonders against dreadnought.
Beating emrakul with this deck is easy. Just play karakas as a 1 of, tutor for it with wayfarer, and bounce their emrakul with it. That should ruin their day. Or just counter their sneak attack/show and tell works just as well.
Doesn't this deck already run 4 aether vial? I very rarely see decks run 3 vial. Vial is very good at gaining tempo by not having to tap your lands to play dudes. I see no reason to not run 4.
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The "standard" list runs 2 vials.
Wisp is above the curve for vials in this deck, and even though it's certainly hard-cast-able, but why not use aura of silence at that point since it can be tutored and has so many other uses. This isn't D&T
Against a resolved show and tell the karakas plan seems good. Against a resolved sneak attack, it's only temporary until you can answer the enchantment or they can answer your land.. Against turbo eldrazi it's useless.
Hi, Just looking for opinions on the possible correct play in this situation.
Playing an unknown opponent on the play, keeping a hand of 6 business (including a wayfarer, counters, but no daze), 1 fetch.
Do you fetch, tundra, wayfarer go?
Do you fetch, plains, wayfarer go?
Do you play the fetch, pass?
I did A, and got wasted next turn and was locked out of the games for several turns before I got any land. I didn't think he would waste me first turn.
Part of the reason for him wasting you may have been him knowing the deck you were playing. If I saw a turn 1 Wayfarer with a Tundra, I'd know I was playing against UW Tempo, a deck that only runs 17 lands -- T1 Wasteland on the draw would be a great play in this situation. Or he could just have done it without that much insight.
I don't play this deck much, but I'd error on the side of caution and fetch the Plains for wayfarer or just sandbag the fetch depending on the rest of the hand. If your gameplan pans out, you'll be getting tons of lands with Wayfarer, no need to put yourself in danger of getting blown out.
Depending on the blue-count of the cards in my hand, I'd fetch Tundra or Plains. You have to be aware that you'll most likely get to fix your mana off of Wayfarer anyway, and he does that for a lousy W. Faking holding Daze is like faking an orgasm. Sure, you can do that, but the real thing really is a lot better. On the plus side, if you can use Wayfarer to tutor up an Island and happen to draw a Daze in your next draw step, your opponent will be like "OMG basic plains, no daze, HELL YEAH LET'S ROCK!!1!" the second before he shits his pantaloons.
If you have the choice, do you prefer Weathered Wayfarer, Mother of Runes or Aether Vial as your first-turn drop?
1st drop for me depends on what deck I'm against.
Here are some random thoughts.
If on the play against unknown:
Vial with counter backup seems good. If they drop an island or a fetch that can grab islands next turn, you can play it safe and wait until turns 2 + 3 to bring out the 1/1's, probably even vialing in 1 or the other during my upkeep of turn 3 before upping my counters to 2.
If they play a white or red land you can bring mom in on turn 2 with same counter backup against their removal. then turn 3 and onward your ww is semi-protected.
@Star|Scream:
I'd only fetch for Tundra if I had another colour-producing land in hand. Especially if you don't have a Daze, then there's almost no reason to do so, barring like, Pierce/Brainstorm/Brainstorm in hand. It's still a very risky play. There's always the possibility of them removing your Wayfarer and potentially locking you out of blue, but you still have eleven potential plays ( I run three Vials ) with a single basic Plains in play, as well as 15 - 16 additional lands.
@Colo:
As for having the option of T1 Vial/Wayfarer/Mom, I would almost always drop Vial first against an unknown opponent. It effectively baits out knee-jerk counters ( CBTop, decks playing Standstill ) while protecting your real business, and accelerates your game plan if unanswered. An active Wayfarer with Vial out is probably the strongest early game position UW Tempo can be in against the majority of competitive Legacy decks.
If it's a choice between Mom and Wayfarer, then it's really up to what your opponent is playing and what else you have in hand. Dropping Wayfarer T1 is the optimal play, as it almost always ensures that you're using your mana efficiently T2. I usually lead with Mom against aggressive decks ( Zoo, Tribal ), as T1 Mom, untap and T2 Wayfarer ( and potentially dropping fetch/waste ) is quite strong. If you've got a choice between dropping a fetch or waste T2, I would only put down the waste if the opponent fetched for a nonbasic target T1. If they've got uncracked fetches and/or basics it's generally better to drop a fetch to ensure Wayfarer activation.
@uncoordinated: what have you cut for the vial? sphinx?
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