You simply discarded the remand and repeal that also draws a card each time you use them, look into my usual list, now take the cunning wish and put the zenith, meditate (losing one of them and returning to a 60 cards list). My sb is now: 1 condescend, 2 M. Traps, 2 R. Trap, 3 snap, 1 repeal, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 cov, (not to continue but not sure on what to replace it) 1 Rebuild, 1 twincast, 2 dispel. After boarding you can adapt the deck for example vs aggro: + 3 snap + 1 repeal + 1 chain of vapor and +1 echoing truth you'll take the -2 cryptic command, -4 FOW (if it's merfolks and zoo add: +2 dispel and take - 1 brain freeze -1 impulse(?) or -1 remand if it's vs merfolks )...Originally Posted by leegoo
Congrats on the top8, i would like to some day play tournaments that aren't gpt, gp or something like it with top8 since our Portuguese tournaments never ever have top8s...
I always find that Cunning Wish is the card that prevents me from fizzling. If I run low on cards, I can Wish for Meditate or BSZ. If I run low on mana, I can Wish for Turnabout. If my combo is sputtering out, I can Wish for a Brain Freeze and hope that FoI goes into my graveyard before the second BF.
Add to that the ability of Cunning Wish to find answers to hate, and it is a card that is hard to dispense with. However, I could see one boarding out Cunning Wish after the first match, though I usually board out the Cryptic Commands, Repeals, or something else.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =,
, and
.
Does anyone can see this post?
nice deck
finally the source is back to normal.
Anyways, Seraphus, what (besides a more traditional sideboard, which is arguably better) do you think the advantages to running a cunning wish'less main deck is?
Last edited by leegoo; 03-18-2011 at 08:50 AM.
Silent, could you post your latest decklist and sideboarding plans?
I know that is a lot to ask, but I'm curious as to what the deck looks like in your eyes. I also have no idea how to sideboard with this deck, so that is why I ask, and as you seem to be the Bryant Cook of this archetype...
Thank you.
I was crazy to post again LOL!
Beside the more consistent sb i fond out through out my testing that the deck increases the % against aggro of the turn 3 combo, it's strange but true... More postboard i start to win against dredge and mono-red... The capability of massive draw (added by the 4th meditate and BSZ) is incredible many times i am using the 4th mana left from meditate to do high tide and than untap or simply go on. Also the delayers like repeal and remand work very well to, the amount of cantrip plus the adding of the 7th fetch is very good...
Well overall cunning wish is dead for me, now i just have to do a good comeback since i paused magic for a little time...
how does you list look now? I am certainly going to try it out. While I've always "liked" cunning wish, I'm not 100% sure I have a good reason to. There are certainly not a ton of times I can see drawing the wish being "better" than just drawing a meditate/BSZ, as, in reality, there are only 3 "real" wish targets anyways 99% of the time (bsz,meditate, and turnabout)
Instants [43]
2 Cryptic Command
2 Flash of Insight
2 Repeal
2 Turnabout
3 Brain Freeze
4 Meditate
3 Opt
3 Remand
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Reset
1 Blue sun's zenith
Lands [18]
1 Flooded strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
11 Island
sb
1 condescend, 2 M. Traps, 2 R. Trap, 3 snap, 1 repeal, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 cov, (not to continue but not sure on what to replace it) 1 Rebuild, 1 twincast, 2 dispel
and i'll replace (i think) the rebuild for a Hibernation...
Instants [42]
2 Cryptic Command
2 Flash of Insight
2 Repeal
2 Turnabout
3 Brain Freeze
4 Meditate
3 Opt
3 Remand
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Reset
1 Blue sun's zenith
Lands [18]
1 Flooded strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
11 Island
sb
1 condescend, 2 M. Traps, 2 R. Trap, 3 snap, 1 repeal, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 cov, (not to continue but not sure on what to replace it) 1 Rebuild, 1 twincast, 2 dispel
and i'll replace (i think) the rebuild for a Hibernation...
So I just read the past 5 pages of this thread. This discussion is becoming extremely inbred.
With that in mind I am going to suggest some cards:
Oona's Grace. Lands cycle mid combo, doesn't seem too bad to me, but this is definitely the weakest one I am suggesting.
Tolarian Winds. I know this was played by a few people back a little while ago, and I don't understand why it was dropped, by far the best card to keep yourself from having to stop mid combo.
Keep Watch. This is insane against the faster aggro decks that this deck struggles against. Probably no more than one in the wishboard, but still seems fantastic against the right decks.
@lorddotm:
"With that in mind I am going to suggest some cards:
Oonas Grace...Tolarian Winds...Keep Watch"
Oonas Grace is indeed week (as you pointed out by yourself) for the reason that you always want to have a spell that does a lot more for the cost of 3 mana, especially in the Set-up of the combo. It is a dead card in the first turns (where you need and want to drop lands) and isnt becoming that much better in the combo IMO because you invest a ton of mana to generate minimal cardadvantage. The mana is a lot tighter than many people think, especially against all sort of Tempodecks and I never found myself in the situation where I could literally waste such an big ammount of mana besides if you are able to do so, you should have won the game anyway.
Tolarian Winds: This is way better to get rid of useless cards in the combo and I can really see the card in the sideboard if you play a wishboard (which you normally do, no offense Seraphus;)). I tested it by myself and it was helpful but not THAT necessary, so I use the very precious sb-space for things that need to save the decks ass. I dont judge it unworthy and its a great situative card, but not a must; often you dont need to have it.
Keep Watch: I was completely irritated as I first heard about the idea of including this card into the deck and, to be honest, I am still confused. Against decks that have a lot of beaters on the table you normally want desperatly to slow down their clock rather than eating the dmg for cardadvantage in the early turns. You want to have constant landdrops as finding combo pieces as well and I do not understand how Keep Watch helps here. When you play against a creature based deck and you are in the 3rd turn, you are normally on a rather low ammount of life and if you dont, drawing 2 cards for three isnt that impressive, besides that its just cycling or worse against a lot of decks. Against all sort of creature based decks I board in additional bounce to make it to more lands and buying time in general, where SNAP! is a lot more impressive than Keep Watch IMO. I really dont see the card in the maindeck and can not imgaine in which MU it shines. All other cards that slow down the opposing clock seem so much better to me and are much more flexible than this.
I played A LOT of games in and outside tourneys with the deck to have enough experience to estimated some cards and comment on them properly, even if I am not Silent Requiem, hope I could help you out a bit.
Non taken Brainwasher :P
I am just going to add little things to your answer:
Try to play keep watch against merfolks and you'll see why it's worthless... Keep in mind this: solidarity cards are divided in:
Cards that combo - high tide reset brain freeze (can cantrip) turnabout (can delay and deal with somethings like trinisphere tap creatures and very interesting plays vs ctrl and cb)
Cards that cantrip Remand, cryptic and repeal (also delayers), opt, brainstorm and impulse that allow us to search the pieces that we need
lands - belchedarity is something that will never work LOL kiding...
Delayers and "solutioners" that never should have only one effect Remand and repeal have draw cryptic have it to but isn't necessary an obligation to draw you can counter bounce: cryptic, FOW, remand and repeal and a special case Cunning wish - although i drop it...
Special cards: Flash of insight it cantrip and act like a tutor.
Now imagine that you'll play keep watch vs zoo: third turn tap all lands 3 cmc draw let's say 3 or 4 cards right? you take the damage and than bolt blast or something... Not to mention that you'll have to use more than one to it became worth of being use in the deck and not left in the sb as a wish target...
As the tolarian, yes it's good but the other options are better...
Oona's grace even Ritzka (the autor of the thread) explain in the first 2 pages that it's not worthy...
I mean... the deck has gained what, 3 new cards since I stopped playing it 6 years ago... it's somewhat hard for it to continue breaking ground.
Keep Watch - Bad. You have to be losing for it to be good, and losing really bad for it to even be better than Meditate.
Tolarian Winds - Really Bad. This was determined years ago.
Oona's Grace - Tried, but like think twice, too slow and doesn't even really help dig you out of a brainstorm mid combo. If you have enough mana to keep using it, you would have just been better BSZ'ing yourself.
Sadly, Wizards keeps a pretty tight leash on "good" blue instants.
Yeah, blue instants have indeed grown a bit week but I think after the drama with Cryptic Command it is not that surprising. Afterall, they printed Command and BSZ which is not that crappy... . Tempodecks got good stuff in form of Cantrips and Spell Pierce/Snare but those doesnt fit quite well in here. Would have Preordain in Instant-speed been too much...ough:P
I'm going to try this too. I had tested the 4th Cunning Wish and High Tide in wishboard for a while. I tried switching back to 4 High Tide main and realized how much smoother the deck ran.
I'm going to try out your idea. Most of the time, I find myself Wishing for a Meditate anyway. I'm just worried I might have trouble finding untappers during the early combo. What is your experience with this?
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =
It depends on the match but normally you can insure yourself by playing high tide than impulse instead of the usual high reset... but the insane amount of draw provides exactly the cards we need without having the problem of pay an extra 3 mana (playing cunning wish)
I honestly do not see how Tolarian Winds is worse than Meditate. Its a freaking draw 5 when you have 5 lands in hand. For two mana. The few times I have tested this deck, I did well off of the back of that card.
Keep Watch would act more like a Meditate than a early cantrip, so when they alphastrike, you just go off and have a draw 3-whatever.
High tide + reset (if counter war plus fow and a spell) how many cards do you probably have in hand? If it's only one meditate draws 4 cards of it's tolarian winds it draws 0...
If you have double high tide in hand you prefer to play them rather than discard it... Only Late combo and if you have an huge number of cards in hand and do not need an untaper...
Keep watch: i rather remand or foi or repeal or impulse...
I rarely have 5 lands in hand, as Impulse tends to go around them. The most vulnerable part of the combo is at the beginning, when you may have as few as 0 lands in hand.
Regardless of Threshold variant though, CB =
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